Let Mormons be Mormon and Catholics be Catholics

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why_me said:
I must say that this forum is an interesting forum. But there is a lot of antimormonism on this forum which I must say is not very christian like.
Maybe you should ask why? Would it be because many times we feel like we are being attacked by several mormons? Shouldn’t we defend our faith just as you would defend yours?
I have defended the mormon church on a mormon apologetic site and we have catholics who participate on that forum and yet, no lds person bashes the catholic faith on that mormon apologetic forum.
Really??? Which one do you belong to? I was on a Lds forum and several of the LDS people called me names and were so rude that I asked the administrator to please remove me from that forum. I was totally shocked since all I did was ask a question for my sister who is a mormon.😦
Nor are negatives said about the catholic church.
Maybe on the forum you belong to but not the one I was on.

And if so, the moderators would come down hard on that poster. But this forum is a different ball of wax. All is permited on this forum and the catholic members take advantage of it.
Not everything is permitted on this forum there have been plenty of people banned because of what they have said.

But I say, let mormons be mormons and catholics be catholics and learn to live together without the criticism that one can read on this forum.
I agree, but why is it that many of the Mormons here when asked a question they just avoid it if they can’t answer it? or get defensive? I think ALL of us should be patient and kind even if we disagree. When it comes down to it we are all just trying to learn from each other. :hug1:

Maybe you should look at post 52 it speaks for itself on mormon attitude here
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zerinus why on earth would you say something like this? Your quote" There is no people on earth whom I despise more than apostates from Mormonism—and by that I mean real apostates; not just anybody who leaves the LDS Church. I mean those who leave it, and then turn against it with all their might, and wage war against it. I wouldn’t try to win them back into the Church even if I could.

Did you ever think it might be that the people who leave believe with all of thier heart and soul that the mormon church is WRONG??
Did you ever think that maybe we are trying very hard to get you and others that they love to Listen to the truth?
As Jesus said in Lk 19:10 " For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save what was lost " I will always try to find those who are lost… including you zerinus I will pray for you…:gopray2:
 
I agree, but why is it that many of the Mormons here when asked a question they just avoid it if they can’t answer it? or get defensive? I think ALL of us should be patient and kind even if we disagree. When it comes down to it we are all just trying to learn from each other. :hug1:

Maybe you should look at post 52 it speaks for itself on mormon attitude here

Many Mormons won’t answer because they flat out don’t know. Some on the other hand think they have all the answers. I think the bob and weave is pretty common when it comes to regular christianity.
 
cestusdei said:
whyme, when mormon missionaries stop trying to convert Catholics then we will see. I don’t think that is going to happen. Our fighting back is perfectly acceptable.

I used to live in the intermountain region. Shall I share some of my experiences with mormons? It isn’t pretty.
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Mormon missionaries do not try to convert catholics. They go door to door to teach the gospel. If people wish to listen, they listen. If they don’t want to listen, they don’t.

It has nothing to do with fighting back. Likewise, the catholic church also has classes for people of other faiths who wish to learn more about the catholic faith with the possiblity of conversion. Same game plan, but different tragedy.
 
why_me said:
Actaully, I know tundramom from the mormon board. I have also chastized Zenius. I am an equal opportunity chastizer. 🙂
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I was speaking about Zenius. He needs to be chastized in my opinion as he is doing mormons a diservice. Having been mormon in the past I can honestly say so too. You just go along and pamper him rather then call him on what you should call him on. That makes it even worse.
 
i must agree with GrandmaRose in post 67. i was released from the LDS church, and that by one false wittness to a Bishop who told a Stake President who kicked me out. In this morning’s LDS General Conference Senior LDS authorities said what i was saying out here in the wilderness as a Stake Missionary in Houston. i don’t feel lost or condemed. infact see the great need to help mend one part of the truth to the other part of the truth. and remove the chaft in the process on both sides.
 
GrammasRose said:
And there in lies you’re true heart. As I suspected. You are the true apostate truly for Jesus would never act or respond in this manner.
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Actually, He did:

Matthew 12:

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 3:

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Luke 12:

10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
You enjoy demeaning those who you believe are apostate as if you know their hearts and you rush to judgement defying the very words of Christ.
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That is not so. I made it clear that by “apostate” I didn’t mean just anybody who leaves the Church. I was referring to a very specific group of people. Those I was referring to were in fact in denial of the Holy Ghost. Indeed, I am equally despising of people who apostatize from any religion. There are lots of people who leave the Catholic Church, or Islam for that matter, or some other religion, and become Protestants, or Evangelicals, or something of that description, and then turn against their former religion and berate it, and hate it, and tell lies about it, and do all they can to pull it down. I think that that is an equally despicable act. Religion is ultimately a matter of personal belief. If somebody finds that his spiritual needs are better fulfilled in another religion than the one he is currently in, and wishes to join another religion, that is fair enough. But when he turns against his former religion and wages war against it, then you know that his intentions are not sincere. He has an agenda up his sleeve.

Apostates are scum of the earth. They are the worst bred of mankind. They are the dirt beneath our feet. They are the most despicable creatures on the planet. I am pleased to note that most converts to the LDS Church from other religions are not of this kind. I have known many people who were former Catholics, or Moslems, or Protestants, or those of other faiths who have joined our Church, and who speak only with reverence and respect about their former religion. Many of them have already graced these boards. That is now it should be. But for those of the other category I have nothing but contempt.
James 4:11
Do not speak against one another, brothers and sisters. 1 He who speaks against a fellow believer 2 or judges a fellow believer speaks against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but its judge.
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“Fellow believers”? Who was talking about “fellow believers”? The people I was referring to are the most despicable people on the planet. They are not “fellow believers”.
James 4:12
But there is only one who is lawgiver and judge – the one who is able to save and destroy. On the other hand, who are you to judge your neighbor?
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I pass the same judgement on then that John did:

1 John 5:

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Those people sin unto death.
I am every so greatful to have found the truth and the truth sir is not in you.
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That is entirely up to you, and I fully respect your choice. But when you start turning against your former religion, berate it, tell lies about it, deliberately misrepresent it and falsify its teachings, and wage war against it, then it is that you begin to lose any respect with me.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
That is not so. I made it clear that by “apostate” I didn’t mean just anybody who leaves the Church. I was referring to a very specific group of people. Those I was referring to were in fact in denial of the Holy Ghost. Indeed, I am equally despising of people who apostatize from any religion. There are lots of people who leave the Catholic Church, or Islam for that matter, or some other religion, and become Protestants, or Evangelicals, or something of that description, and then turn against their former religion and berate it, and hate it, and tell lies about it, and do all they can to pull it down. I think that that is an equally despicable act. Religion is ultimately a matter of personal belief. If somebody finds that his spiritual needs are better fulfilled in another religion than the one he is currently in, and wishes to join another religion, that is fair enough. But when he turns against his former religion and wages war against it, then you know that his intentions are not sincere. He has an agenda up his sleeve.

Apostates are scum of the earth. They are the worst bred of mankind. They are the dirt beneath our feet. They are the most despicable creatures on the planet. I am pleased to note that most converts to the LDS Church from other religions are not of this kind. I have known many people who were former Catholics, or Moslems, or Protestants, or those of other faiths who have joined our Church, and who speak only with reverence and respect about their former religion. Many of them have already graced these boards. That is now it should be. But for those of the other category I have nothing but contempt.

That is entirely up to you, and I fully respect your choice. But when you start turning against your former religion, berate it, tell lies about it, deliberately misrepresent it and falsify its teachings, and wage war against it, then it is that you begin to lose any respect with me.

zerinus
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I challenge you zerinus… find ONE post made by a former Mormon on this board that is a lie. Find ONE post that deliberately misrepresents and falsifies mormonism’s teachings. Find ONE post wherein war is waged against mormonism.
 
Perhaps zernius is still watching General Conference?

Maybe not… anyone?
 
why_me said:
Mormon missionaries do not try to convert catholics. They go door to door to teach the gospel. If people wish to listen, they listen. If they don’t want to listen, they don’t.

It has nothing to do with fighting back. Likewise, the catholic church also has classes for people of other faiths who wish to learn more about the catholic faith with the possiblity of conversion. Same game plan, but different tragedy.
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Oh please. They have tried to convert me and I was wearing my collar! They target my parishioners for conversion. Therefore I have no problem preaching on the faults of mormonism so that they can fight back. We do have classes, but I suspect you have never had us at your door trying to get you in them. Also we require months of classes. Mormons try to get you to join BEFORE they explain everything to you.
 
colliric said:
yeah you see this is why I’m catholic, the Church of christ never entered into Apostasy at all, that would be an indication that lucifer is not bound by Christ’s power “and the gates of hell shall not rise against it”. Simply not truth that there was any such thing as an apostasy because Christ said his church was going to kick *** until the end of time and his second coming and it was never going to fall down from the limelight. Individuals would fall,including church leaders, but as a whole it will remain visible and on earth until time is up…
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Say it how it is. Jesus said the gates of Hell would not prevail against his Church and they have not and we’re in it.

Blessings

your Anglican brother in Christ.
 
SteveSee said:
i must agree with GrandmaRose in post 67. i was released from the LDS church, and that by one false wittness to a Bishop who told a Stake President who kicked me out. In this morning’s LDS General Conference Senior LDS authorities said what i was saying out here in the wilderness as a Stake Missionary in Houston. i don’t feel lost or condemed. infact see the great need to help mend one part of the truth to the other part of the truth. and remove the chaft in the process on both sides.
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I am sorry that happened to you. Those kinds of things are never fun but they do happen and not just in mormonism I am afraid. I will say some prayers that God will guide you. 🙂
 
zerinus said:
Actually, He did:

Matthew 12:

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 3:

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Luke 12:

10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

That is not so. I made it clear that by “apostate” I didn’t mean just anybody who leaves the Church. I was referring to a very specific group of people. Those I was referring to were in fact in denial of the Holy Ghost. Indeed, I am equally despising of people who apostatize from any religion. There are lots of people who leave the Catholic Church, or Islam for that matter, or some other religion, and become Protestants, or Evangelicals, or something of that description, and then turn against their former religion and berate it, and hate it, and tell lies about it, and do all they can to pull it down. I think that that is an equally despicable act. Religion is ultimately a matter of personal belief. If somebody finds that his spiritual needs are better fulfilled in another religion than the one he is currently in, and wishes to join another religion, that is fair enough. But when he turns against his former religion and wages war against it, then you know that his intentions are not sincere. He has an agenda up his sleeve.

Apostates are scum of the earth. They are the worst bred of mankind. They are the dirt beneath our feet. They are the most despicable creatures on the planet. I am pleased to note that most converts to the LDS Church from other religions are not of this kind. I have known many people who were former Catholics, or Moslems, or Protestants, or those of other faiths who have joined our Church, and who speak only with reverence and respect about their former religion. Many of them have already graced these boards. That is now it should be. But for those of the other category I have nothing but contempt.

“Fellow believers”? Who was talking about “fellow believers”? The people I was referring to are the most despicable people on the planet. They are not “fellow believers”.

I pass the same judgement on then that John did:

1 John 5:

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Those people sin unto death.

That is entirely up to you, and I fully respect your choice. But when you start turning against your former religion, berate it, tell lies about it, deliberately misrepresent it and falsify its teachings, and wage war against it, then it is that you begin to lose any respect with me.

zerinus
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and what on earth does that have to do with the subject? you need to find the LDS description of the blasphemy against the holy ghost. No one here spoke against Jesus or the Holy Spirit. No one shed innocent blood either.
 
SteveSee said:
i must agree with GrandmaRose in post 67. i was released from the LDS church, and that by one false wittness to a Bishop who told a Stake President who kicked me out. In this morning’s LDS General Conference Senior LDS authorities said what i was saying out here in the wilderness as a Stake Missionary in Houston. i don’t feel lost or condemed. infact see the great need to help mend one part of the truth to the other part of the truth. and remove the chaft in the process on both sides.
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which stake?
 
zerinus said:
Actually, He did:

Matthew 12:

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 3:

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Luke 12:

10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Strawman you are not God and never will be.

That is not so. I made it clear that by “apostate” I didn’t mean just anybody who leaves the Church. I was referring to a very specific group of people. Those I was referring to were in fact in denial of the Holy Ghost. Indeed, I am equally despising of people who apostatize from any religion. There are lots of people who leave the Catholic Church, or Islam for that matter, or some other religion, and become Protestants, or Evangelicals, or something of that description, and then turn against their former religion and berate it, and hate it, and tell lies about it, and do all they can to pull it down. I think that that is an equally despicable act. Religion is ultimately a matter of personal belief. If somebody finds that his spiritual needs are better fulfilled in another religion than the one he is currently in, and wishes to join another religion, that is fair enough. But when he turns against his former religion and wages war against it, then you know that his intentions are not sincere. He has an agenda up his sleeve.

Apostates are scum of the earth. They are the worst bred of mankind. They are the dirt beneath our feet. They are the most despicable creatures on the planet. I am pleased to note that most converts to the LDS Church from other religions are not of this kind. I have known many people who were former Catholics, or Moslems, or Protestants, or those of other faiths who have joined our Church, and who speak only with reverence and respect about their former religion. Many of them have already graced these boards. That is now it should be. But for those of the other category I have nothing but contempt.

As much as you believe yourself to be you are not in the position to judge anyone let alone an apostate. You are not God and have no access to a person’s heart. You are making judgements against those you don’t even know but presume to know. That is where you are wrong and no matter how much you might despise one it is contrary to God. You are told to love all even your enemies.

“Fellow believers”? Who was talking about “fellow believers”? The people I was referring to are the most despicable people on the planet. They are not “fellow believers”.

I pass the same judgement on then that John did:

1 John 5:

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Those people sin unto death.

That is entirely up to you, and I fully respect your choice. But when you start turning against your former religion, berate it, tell lies about it, deliberately misrepresent it and falsify its teachings, and wage war against it, then it is that you begin to lose any respect with me.

zerinus
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I don’t want your respect nor do I need it nor should anyone place their faith in the arm of flesh. God is the one who I look to and follow. He is all that matters here. As I said it is obvious where your heart is.

The thing that is really sad is even apostates God loves. Saving one lost sheep was more important to him than the 99 that were already saved. I think you missed that lesson.
 
zerinus said:
Anything but. There is no people on earth whom I despise more than apostates from Mormonism—and by that I mean real apostates; not just anybody who leaves the LDS Church. I mean those who leave it, and then turn against it with all their might, and wage war against it. I wouldn’t try to win them back into the Church even if I could. These are the kinds of folks of whom Peter wrote: “whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. . . . These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever” (2 Peter 2:3, 17). Jude also had some unflattering things to say to them: “clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever” (Jude 1:12-13). These folks are damned already. There is no remedy. Anybody who tries to rescue them risks bringing the same judgement on himself—although that is not to say that some LDS are not naïve enough and unwise enough to try to.

zerinus
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zerinus, I’ve appreciated many of your comments on the board - you have a very good knowledge of early Christianity. I have to disagree with you here though. I think we’ve been taught all are welcome back to the church - we welcome them back with open arms, in fact! Think the prodigal son. I don’t know of any official Mormon Doctrine which teaches us to judge who is damned and who is not. While I will not debate with someone not willing to listen, I sincerely hope those former Mormons, even apostates here and elsewhere will remember the testimony they had when they first joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and come back into the fold. Let’s put our offenses aside, realize people aren’t perfect, and remember that of which ye came from.
 
Zerinus is echoing what the mormon church says. Apostates will burn in hell according to lds beliefs. Unless they changed them…again.
 
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