Let Mormons be Mormon and Catholics be Catholics

[GrammasRose]

Any time they are talking about the Great Apostasy they are talking about Catholics. Didn’t they ever once talk about the Great Apostasy in your meetings – they always have where I have lived. And every General Conference you can be sure they will talk about the Great Apostasy.

Talking about the great apostacy does not mention Catholics either. I think perhaps you are associating with some who wish to believe that or you are misinterpreting it to mean that. As I always say you see what you want to see.

 

[Allweather]

why bash at all? what purpose does it serve but to turn others away?

I wouldn’t call it “bashing”. These heresies lead people away from true faith, so they are serious problems, and need to be analyzed and opposed.

We should walk the fine line between valid criticism and insult. I don’t advocate insulting anyone or their religion, though it is hard to resist coming back with an insult when I’m accused of being an apostate.

As for Zerinus, some are of the opinion that he is a teenager. Certainly, his style suggests that he is a youngster.

 

[Allweather]

Talking about the great apostacy does not mention Catholics either. I think perhaps you are associating with some who wish to believe that or you are misinterpreting it to mean that. As I always say you see what you want to see.

Which Church is it that the Mormons accuse of going apostate?

Seems to me, it is the Catholic Church, which was the only Christian church in existence in the day.

Just because they avoid coming right out and saying the word “Catholic” in polite company doesn’t mean that isn’t the Church they are leveling the accusation against. And BTW, lets not underestimate the seriousness of apostasy. It is probably THE most serious sin a Christian could commit.

 

[GrammasRose]

I wouldn’t call it “bashing”. These heresies lead people away from true faith, so they are serious problems, and need to be analyzed and opposed.

We should walk the fine line between valid criticism and insult. I don’t advocate insulting anyone or their religion, though it is hard to resist coming back with an insult when I’m accused of being an apostate.

As for Zerinus, some are of the opinion that he is a teenager. Certainly, his style suggests that he is a youngster.

ok I can agree with what you have said. criticism that is constructive with the intention to make others aware is ok, but bashing no. Zerinus is over zealous not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[GrammasRose]

Which Church is it that the Mormons accuse of going apostate?

Seems to me, it is the Catholic Church, which was the only Christian church in existence in the day.

Just because they avoid coming right out and saying the word “Catholic” in polite company doesn’t mean that isn’t the Church they are leveling the accusation against. And BTW, lets not underestimate the seriousness of apostasy. It is probably THE most serious sin a Christian could commit.

I understand what your saying but they do say all churches not singling out one over the other.

 

[Allweather]

ok I can agree with what you have said. criticism that is constructive with the intention to make others aware is ok, but bashing no. Zerinus is over zealous not necessarily a bad thing.

I absolutely agree that Zerinus is a “good thing.” He puts the worst possible Mormon foot forward. I realize he isn’t the norm among Mormons. I know a lot of Mormons, and none of them are anything like him. I’m sure, however, that there ARE lots of Mormons who ARE like him, real true believers who are in full lock-up with minds disengaged from heart. There are many Catholics like this, too, and I’ll admit that sometimes I revert to my fundamentalist instincts, and get like that myself. It is something I have to fight against; I’m not proud of it. Zerinus, however, seems actually PROUD of his.

 

[Allweather]

I understand what your saying but they do say all churches not singling out one over the other.

True. But all Christian churches emanate from the Catholic Church, and the Great Apostasy occured, according to the Mormon myth, around the 2d century or so, depending on who is doing the accusing. There can be no question which Church is being accused.

I guess I’m one of those Catholics who doesn’t take this kind of accusation lightly. There are many who, maybe because they don’t know what the word “apostasy” means, take it lightly. Even many Mormons I’ve talked to don’t seem to realize what it means. But I’ll tell ya, the people of the first 3 Christian centuries who were fed to wild animals and dipped in tar and set ablaze to provide light for Nero’s parties, THEY know what an apostate is.

 

[majick275]

I never once while in the LDS faith ever heard mentioned in a meeting a Catholic. Where on earth did you belong ? Mormons don’t focus on Catholics.

unfortunately I have. Before Bruce R Mconkie was made “politically correct” in his mormon doctrine, it was not uncommon to call out the Catholic church as the great and abominable church during sunday school lessons.

 

[GrammasRose]

I absolutely agree that Zerinus is a “good thing.” He puts the worst possible Mormon foot forward. I realize he isn’t the norm among Mormons. I know a lot of Mormons, and none of them are anything like him. I’m sure, however, that there ARE lots of Mormons who ARE like him, real true believers who are in full lock-up with minds disengaged from heart. There are many Catholics like this, too, and I’ll admit that sometimes I revert to my fundamentalist instincts, and get like that myself. It is something I have to fight against; I’m not proud of it. Zerinus, however, seems actually PROUD of his.

I think we all get in a defensive mode when confronted. I know I do at times and it is natural I believe no matter what faith you are. We have to just think about what we are posting before we hit that button

 

[GrammasRose]

True. But all Christian churches emanate from the Catholic Church, and the Great Apostasy occured, according to the Mormon myth, around the 2d century or so, depending on who is doing the accusing. There can be no question which Church is being accused.

I guess I’m one of those Catholics who doesn’t take this kind of accusation lightly. There are many who, maybe because they don’t know what the word “apostasy” means, take it lightly. Even many Mormons I’ve talked to don’t seem to realize what it means. But I’ll tell ya, the people of the first 3 Christian centuries who were fed to wild animals and dipped in tar and set ablaze to provide light for Nero’s parties, THEY know what an apostate is.

I know what you are saying and I do see your point. I guess I never looked at it quite that way.

 

[zerinus]

You have to realize though, that mormons generally have different views because they focus on different things then general christianity. I don’t think they deliberately avoid answering. Some just don’t ever study those things or when you run across some individual who has studied often they get a little cocky for a lack of a better word. Mormonism lives to a higher standard than most and I think that is why some feel the way they do. Having been on both sides it is easier to see I think.

It would have been better if you had asked her what her questions were.

zerinus

 

[GrammasRose]

unfortunately I have. Before Bruce R Mconkie was made “politically correct” in his mormon doctrine, it was not uncommon to call out the Catholic church as the great and abominable church during sunday school lessons.

Ok you got me there I had forgotten about McConkies comments even in Mormon Doctrine. by the way did you not quote something on one of these threads about the ensign being as good as the prophets voice or scripture. Something like that? I have been looking for that quote.

 

[GrammasRose]

It would have been better if you had asked her what her questions were.

zerinus

why? If she has questions she can PM me.

 

[zerinus]

That is not what that verse in John says. You have interpreted it to mean something it does not. You are supposed to pray for those folks. notice the green below.

5:16 If 38 anyone sees his fellow Christian 39 committing a sin not resulting in death, 40 he should ask, and God 41 will grant 42 life to the person who commits a sin not resulting in death. 43 There is a sin resulting in death. 44 I do not say that he should ask about that. 5:17 All unrighteousness 45 is sin, but there is sin not resulting in death. 46

Then you and I must understand English differently. To me that says that there are TWO kinds of sin: a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death. Then it tells us to pray for those who sin NOT unto death, but definitely NOT to pray for those who sin unto death. I don’t think that is a matter of dispute. It is a matter of plain English.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

why? If she has questions she can PM me.

Well, if she is moaning about her questions not being answered, I should have thought the first thing to do is to tell us what those questions are. I Haven’t come across any questions from her, except her complaints that they haven’t been answered.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

zerinus;2060599:

And you need to understand that I am not crying to anybody. I tell people what they need to hear. If they don’t like it, that is tough luck.

Mormonism is no more anti-Catholic than it is anti-Protestant, anti-Jewish, or anti-Buddhist. It simply preaches the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the latter days; and everyone must accept it or be damned. That is the bottom line.

zerinusI think you are mixing your own views with mormonism. You are doing true mormons a diservice.

Pray tell me how?

zerinus

 

[GrammasRose]

Then you and I must understand English differently. To me that says that there are TWO kinds of sin: a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death. Then it tells us to pray for those who sin NOT unto death, but definitely NOT to pray for those who sin unto death. I don’t think that is a matter of dispute. It is a matter of plain English.

zerinus

You avoid a lot of scripture that says we should pray for all. You really need to learn to judge from literal uinderstanding to metaphoric understanding.

 

[GrammasRose]

Well, if she is moaning about her questions not being answered, I should have thought the first thing to do is to tell us what those questions are. I Haven’t come across any questions from her, except her complaints that they haven’t been answered.

zerinus

First off she wasn’t moaning so quit with the dramatics already.
why should she tell them? so you can pounce on them and give your interpretations and then proceed to tell her what a ninny she is? It is her business if she wants to say it or not. It is none of your business at all if she chooses not too.

 

[zerinus]

I absolutely agree that Zerinus is a “good thing.” He puts the worst possible Mormon foot forward. I realize he isn’t the norm among Mormons. I know a lot of Mormons, and none of them are anything like him. I’m sure, however, that there ARE lots of Mormons who ARE like him, real true believers who are in full lock-up with minds disengaged from heart. There are many Catholics like this, too, and I’ll admit that sometimes I revert to my fundamentalist instincts, and get like that myself. It is something I have to fight against; I’m not proud of it. Zerinus, however, seems actually PROUD of his.

Oh, there ain’t that many Zmen around! I come from the planet Zirkon, and I drive a Zmobile, and dress in a Zsuit, and my job is to kick the **** of all Mormon apostates and anti-Mormons!

zerinus

 

[GrammasRose]

Pray tell me how?

zerinus

by your rotten attitude for starters. you are discourteous to others, you answer rudely at times and you act as if you are God’s gift to this forum. Is that enough? or do you need more?

Try discussing nicely you will get a lot further with what you wish to say. If someone doesn’t like mormonism get over it that is the nature of the thing. You are in a Catholic forum and you need to adjust accordingly. No one here is gonna be patting your back and telling you how grand mormonism is.