Let's stop using the word "abortion"

[goout]

Indeed. You tell a woman who suffered a miscarriage, “your baby died”, be prepared to get a slap in the face in short order as a response has been my experience, at best.

And to your last point, absolutely agree. All language like that does is make you look like an insensitive boob.

You must be kidding. We (my wife and I) lost a child through miscarriage.
We consider this child to be a human being worthy of every bit of respect in the eyes of God that is due to you.

What you are saying does nothing to help someone grieving the loss of a preborn child. Language must be used with prudence and respect for the hearer.

On the other hand, false speech hurts everyone. Are you using the word “baby” to discriminate the humanity of the preborn? Sure seems like it.
Which other discrimination are you in favor of?

 

[Padres1969]

You must be kidding. We (my wife and I) lost a child through miscarriage.
We consider this child to be a human being worthy of every bit of respect in the eyes of God that is due to you.
**
What you are saying does nothing to help someone grieving the loss of a preborn child. Language must be used with prudence and respect for the hearer. **

On the other hand, false speech hurts everyone. Are you using the word “baby” to discriminate the humanity of the preborn? Sure seems like it.
Which other discrimination are you in favor of?

Depends on the person I guess. Most I know would find using language like “they lost their child” to cause them much more pain and worsen their grieving after a miscarriage. And yes I am absolutely “discriminating” (ie: recognizing a distinction). To be a baby one must be born. It is the definition of the word. The “preborn” as you term them are not babies, they are fetuses. Just as a toddler is not a baby, neither is a fetus. Using the term baby for either is imprecise and muddies the intent of what you’re trying to express and indeed the English language.

You may view “fetus” as minimizing the humanity of an unborn human, but that’s your issue. Fetus is the proper term for an unborn human from 8 weeks from conception to birth. And note I said, human.

 

[goout]

Depends on the person I guess. Most I know would find using language like “they lost their child” to cause them much more pain and worsen their grieving after a miscarriage. And yes I am absolutely “discriminating” (ie: recognizing a distinction). To be a baby one must be born. It is the definition of the word. The “preborn” as you term them are not babies, they are fetuses. Just as a toddler is not a baby, neither is a fetus. Using the term baby for either is imprecise and muddies the intent of what you’re trying to express and indeed the English language.

You may view “fetus” as minimizing the humanity of an unborn human, but that’s your issue. Fetus is the proper term for an unborn human from 8 weeks from conception to birth. And note I said, human.

Ok. Thanks for the clarification. This language is normally used to question the full humanity of the preborn. Glad you are not doing that.

I disagree with your prudential judgment in the matter.

 

[10gr8kids]

Depends on the person I guess. Most I know would find using language like “they lost their child” to cause them much more pain and worsen their grieving after a miscarriage. And yes I am absolutely “discriminating” (ie: recognizing a distinction). To be a baby one must be born. It is the definition of the word. The “preborn” as you term them are not babies, they are fetuses. **Just as a toddler is not a baby, neither is a fetus.**Using the term baby for either is imprecise and muddies the intent of what you’re trying to express and indeed the English language.

You may view “fetus” as minimizing the humanity of an unborn human, but that’s your issue. Fetus is the proper term for an unborn human from 8 weeks from conception to birth. And note I said, human.

Yet, you would use the word child to describe a baby, toddler, teen…

Will you call a fetus a child? If all you mean by wanting to refer to it as a fetus as a different level of development, why not?

 

[phil19034]

By definition after it’s born. I don’t care if you are pro- life or pro- choice. If you are going to make an argument, then please actually use the definitions that everyone else agrees with.

ba·by
ˈbābē/Submit
noun
1.
a very young child, especially one newly or recently born.
“his wife’s just had a baby”
synonyms: infant, newborn, child, tot, little one; More

No, the term baby is generic for all stages of a young human’s development.

When a parent tells their other children that they are pregnant, it usually something like this is said: “Mommy has a baby in her tummy,” or “Mommy has a baby growing inside her.” When the child is kicking, the mother doesn’t say “come feel the fetus kick,” no, she will typically say “come feel the baby kick!”

the definition you typed says “a very young child” (which a fetus is “a very young child”) and does not say “but one newly or recently born.” It says “especially one newly or recently born,” but that does not negate calling a young child pre-birth a baby.

God Bless

 

[tawny]

No, the term baby is generic for all stages of a young human’s development.

When a parent tells their other children that they are pregnant, it usually something like this is said: “Mommy has a baby in her tummy,” or “Mommy has a baby growing inside her.” When the child is kicking, the mother doesn’t say “come feel the fetus kick,” no, she will typically say “come feel the baby kick!”

the definition you typed says “a very young child” (which a fetus is “a very young child”) and does not say “but one newly or recently born.” It says “especially one newly or recently born,” but that does not negate calling a young child pre-birth a baby.

God Bless

Well stated.
Even Obstetricians will say “baby” & call the woman “Mother” when she pregnant.

 

[phil19034]

I know people who have had a miscarriage and who have had their newborn baby die in their hands. Its not the same on an emotional level. Also, I don’t know why your talking about losing parents, when it has nothing to do with losing a baby or having a miscarriage.

WHAT!!! MY WIFE HAD A MISCARRIAGE AND SHE & I WERE DEVASTATED.

Please do not tell us it not the same. Sure, we didn’t become accustomed to the baby’s presence around the house, but it hurt.

My wife grieved for months, and she was pro-choice before that. After the initial shock wore off, I cried for an entire day.

So please do not speak about what you don’t know.

I will pray for you conversion.
God Bless

 

[10gr8kids]

WHAT!!! MY WIFE HAD A MISCARRIAGE AND SHE & I WERE DEVASTATED.

Please do not tell us it not the same. Sure, we didn’t become accustomed to the baby’s presence around the house, but it hurt.

My wife grieved for months, and she was pro-choice before that. After the initial shock wore off, I cried for an entire day.

So please do not speak about what you don’t know.

I will pray for you conversion.
God Bless

It’s been 19 years since I lost my first child, and 7 years since I lost my last child. I still grieve. Hardly a day goes by that at some point I don’t think about the children my husband and I lost.

 

[phil19034]

Depends on the person I guess. Most I know would find using language like “they lost their child” to cause them much more pain and worsen their grieving after a miscarriage. And yes I am absolutely “discriminating” (ie: recognizing a distinction). To be a baby one must be born. It is the definition of the word. The “preborn” as you term them are not babies, they are fetuses. Just as a toddler is not a baby, neither is a fetus. Using the term baby for either is imprecise and muddies the intent of what you’re trying to express and indeed the English language.

You may view “fetus” as minimizing the humanity of an unborn human, but that’s your issue. Fetus is the proper term for an unborn human from 8 weeks from conception to birth. And note I said, human.

No

As per one of my previous posts… parents don’t say “Mommy has a fetus in her tummy.” They say, “mommy has a baby in her tummy!” They don’t say “mommy has a fetus growing inside her,” they say “mommy has a baby growing insider her.”

The term baby does NOT indicate any specific stage of human development. It is generic.

The scientific stages of human development are as follows:

PrenatalEmbryo

zygote
blastocyst
post-implantationFetus​

Childhood/JuvenileNeonate
Infant
Toddler
Play age
Primary school

elementary school
preadolescenceadolescencePeripuberty​

adulthoodyoung adulthood
middle adulthood
elder/senior adulthood
Deathdecomposition

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/Prenatal_development_table.svg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Child_development_stages.svg

The term baby is sometimes used in place of the term “infant.” But “baby” is more generic because I still call my 6 year old daughter my “baby girl” and she will always be my “baby” girl and my first baby. My 29 year old sister is still my baby sister.

At 40 years old, I’m still my mother’s first baby.

And when my wife had a miscarrage, I don’t say “we lost the fetus,” I say “we lost the baby”

NOTE: I would never say “we lost the infant” due to a miscarrage, nor would my grandmother say “we lost our infant” when her baby boy died a few days after child birth.

And I know many people who loose teenage children who have said “I’ve lost my baby.”

So “baby” is NOT specific to any stage. It is a generic term that is sometimes used in place of the word infant. But it’s still generic because it’s also often used in place of the word “child.”

God Bless.

 

[phil19034]

It’s been 19 years since I lost my first child, and 7 years since I lost my last child. I still grieve. Hardly a day goes by that at some point I don’t think about the children my husband and I lost.

God Bless you. Yes, we still grieve in our own ways. My wife refuses to talk about it, but when she does it upsets her.

We have moved on, but I will never forget our child who died. I don’t know if the baby was a boy or girl. I hope to find out in heaven, but my daughter has made me believe that it might have been a girl because when she was younger, she used to talk about her “big sister.”

I have heard of stories of how very young children are sometimes visited in their dreams by miscarried children. I have no idea if it’s true, but it brings a simile to my face & a tear to my eye thinking of the possibility of my first baby saying hello to my daughter from heaven.

God Bless

 

[GEddie]

“Wrong: She miscarried/had a miscarriage.
Right: Her baby died.”

Knowing people who actually miscarried… No. Just. No.

That’s like correcting someone, who had a family member pass away, and telling them it’s more correct to say that they died. It’s patronizing at best, callous and uncaring at best.

I’m 100% against abortion. I believe that abortion is murder… But I also know that many people that have abortions aren’t doing so lightly and you’re not going to win them over with hostile language.

• 1, I don’t think in such a sensitive and overcharged issue that harsh words are going to change the equation.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Joe_5859]

Those who are trying to parse out “baby” from “fetus” are just arguing the opposite side of the coin as the OP—insisting on “technical” definitions that are pushing people further away from their own point of view.

Should we correct women who have had miscarriages who say, “I lost my baby”? Maybe tell them, “Well, properly speaking, you lost your fetus, not your baby.”

If we really want to get technical, most people don’t even use the term “fetus” correctly. Technically, a fetus designates the stage from 2 months to 9 months after conception, not the full 9 months.

But whatever term you use has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that the fetus/baby/zygote is a person.

 

[mathematoons]

I do think that words matter. And the words that we choose to use often frame the debate. I read an article the other day from a Catholic grammarian who made the side note:

(I knew we had lost the political battle on same-sex “marriage” when we started arguing for “traditional marriage.” To qualify a noun by an adjective—“traditional” marriage—concedes that there are other types of that noun. No one talks about “traditional triangles.”)

So I can appreciate the point that using sanitized language can make the reality of abortion more palatable and less offensive. Read up on Randall Terry and Operation Rescue. I’ve heard him make the same argument with regards to the word “abortion.”

That said, as others have pointed out already, using that language is more likely to turn people off and/or get them emotionally riled up against you than it is likely to actually get them to rethink their position.

Most of the sentences you flagged as “wrong” are not linguistically incorrect. Saying a woman is 6 months pregnant is a factually correct statement and one that I fail to see how it would de-humanize the unborn child. (I also don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone state “God became man at Bethlehem.” But if I did, I would concede that their theologically imprecise statement should be corrected. )

Further, words like “miscarriage” and “abortion” have specific meanings. Yes, a baby dies in both, but they are a specific type of death. Using such words for the purpose of greater specificity is what we do with language. If someone told me their friend committed suicide or drowned, I wouldn’t stop and correct them saying, “You mean your friend died. Stop using euphemisms!” Not only would that be insensitive, but it also isn’t a necessary correction. They are words that denote how the person died. They aren’t euphemisms.

I do think there really is a lot of language in the abortion debate that is used to mislead and/or dehumanize the unborn. But the examples you have chosen are not the ones I would go with. I think it is better to do what we can to illustrate the humanity of the unborn. From there, people can arrive at the point that it is a real person who dies in an abortion without them being put on the defensive.

Exactly, my point is, the language we use whitewashes the reality of baby-killing, just as “ethnic cleansing” whitewashes the reality of killing entire ethnic groups, as if they were a stain that needed to be wiped off with some cleanser–that language makes me sick too. If I object to the phrase “ethnic cleansing,” no one worries that I might offend a Nazi by calling it mass murder. I would rather hurt a murderer’s feelings than deny that life begins at conception. Shall we avoid quoting the verse, “Any man that hateth his brother is a murderer” (1 John 3:15) just so we don’t offend people who hate others? People here are preaching a double standard. Somehow, it’s only baby-killers who get this special treatment.

Also, the examples I cited are not so much for preaching to unbelievers as for correcting our own thinking and taking the beams out of our own eyes. When my first child is conceived (I have been called to marriage), I will count myself as a father from that point on. If I did not, how could I call myself pro-life? Unbelievers listen carefully to what we say; I know, because I used to be one. When I heard that a Christian was afraid to die, I thought, “That proves that Christians don’t really believe in Heaven, they just pretend to believe so they can fit into their social club.” It was the same with “pro-life” people who spoke as though they were not. I know unbelievers in a way many of you never will, so you all would do well to listen. I would have called all of you hypocrites (and given some of the posts–I’m not naming names–I’m not sure I was wrong about those posters), and I think many unbelievers are doing the same.

 

[exnihilo]

I know people who have had a miscarriage and who have had their newborn baby die in their hands. Its not the same on an emotional level. Also, I don’t know why your talking about losing parents, when it has nothing to do with losing a baby or having a miscarriage.

That is very presumptive.

They weren’t yet a baby. Yes the fetus was alive, and yes they died tragically… but to be a baby one must have already been born. It’s right there in the definition of the word in every source you’ll be able to find. And it shows in the emotional reaction most women (and all the ones I’ve known personally who’ve suffered a miscarriage) have to the event. They’re devastated, but they’d never consider it close to the pain they’d suffer of did suffer, when losing a baby or child.

I think this is presumptive. How one reacts emotionally to something is entirely personal.

No, the term baby is generic for all stages of a young human’s development.

When a parent tells their other children that they are pregnant, it usually something like this is said: “Mommy has a baby in her tummy,” or “Mommy has a baby growing inside her.” When the child is kicking, the mother doesn’t say “come feel the fetus kick,” no, she will typically say “come feel the baby kick!”

the definition you typed says “a very young child” (which a fetus is “a very young child”) and does not say “but one newly or recently born.” It says “especially one newly or recently born,” but that does not negate calling a young child pre-birth a baby.

Excellent point.

Those who are trying to parse out “baby” from “fetus” are just arguing the opposite side of the coin as the OP—insisting on “technical” definitions that are pushing people further away from their own point of view.

Should we correct women who have had miscarriages who say, “I lost my baby”? Maybe tell them, “Well, properly speaking, you lost your fetus, not your baby.”

If we really want to get technical, most people don’t even use the term “fetus” correctly. Technically, a fetus designates the stage from 2 months to 9 months after conception, not the full 9 months.

But whatever term you use has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that the fetus/baby/zygote is a person.

Also an excellent point.

One problem is that language changes and definitions are often imprecise. To insist on a dictionary definition is to assert some publisher has control over language when in fact it is something that is worked out by the users of that language. At the same time language can’t be completely arbitrary.

 

[Allegra]

No, the term baby is generic for all stages of a young human’s development.

When a parent tells their other children that they are pregnant, it usually something like this is said: “Mommy has a baby in her tummy,” or “Mommy has a baby growing inside her.” When the child is kicking, the mother doesn’t say “come feel the fetus kick,” no, she will typically say “come feel the baby kick!”

the definition you typed says “a very young child” (which a fetus is “a very young child”) and does not say “but one newly or recently born.” It says “especially one newly or recently born,” but that does not negate calling a young child pre-birth a baby.

God Bless

In my opinion, “fetus” is a medical term. There’s nothing wrong with using the term in a medical sense, but I’ve yet to be invited to a “fetus shower”.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Let’s call it what it is: baby-killing. The fact that we use another word shows that we don’t really think of the two as morally equivalent. Murdering a baby x months before birth is no better than doing so x months after.

Wrong: She had an abortion.
Right: She killed her baby.

While we’re at it, let’s get rid of anti-life speech in general:

Wrong: They have 4 children and one on the way.
Right: They have 5 children.

Wrong: She miscarried/had a miscarriage.
Right: Her baby died.

Wrong: She is going to be a mother (said of a pregnant woman).
Right: She is a mother.

Wrong: God became man at Bethlehem.
Right: God became man at Nazareth.

Wrong: She’s 6 months pregnant.
Right: Her baby is minus (or negative) 3 months old.

You get the idea. We’ve all heard variations of these errors, maybe even made them. Let’s stop. When I was an atheist, I cited examples like these to “prove” that Christians didn’t really believe the pro-life idea. Don’t prove my pre-Christian self right.

The baby age thing is a cultural manner of speaking. Many Asian cultures consider the child age 1 at birth.

 

[DebChris]

The proper term is “aborticide.”
It is no longer in the dictionary, but you will find it in the 1956 edition of Webster’s.
An aborticide is the destruction of the fetus within the womb.
It differentiates between the various other medical definitions of abortion, including natural abortion, which in lay terms is a miscarriage.
Infanticide is the killing of an infant after birth.

The suffix “-cide” is used to denote killing. Suicide is the taking of one’s own life, etc.

 

[Otar_Mendes]

Let’s call it what it is: baby-killing. The fact that we use another word shows that we don’t really think of the two as morally equivalent. Murdering a baby

First you have to change all the dictionaries definitions. . What we can find in women’s wombs within the first XX weeks is not a baby. Just a bunch of cells. And that’s a natural fact.

 

[PRmerger]

First you have to change all the dictionaries definitions. . What we can find in women’s wombs within the first XX weeks is not a baby. Just a bunch of cells. And that’s a natural fact.

You would have to agree, Otar, that you, too are a “bunch of cells”, right?

 

[DebChris]

Technically, a miscarriage is an abortion. But using that word for a miscarriage can really hurt. My miscarriage was called an abortion by an unthinking person - & I still remember it after all these years.

Words can hurt - be kind. Even if a woman chose to end her pregnancy, you don’t know what kind of pain she felt made it necessary, nor what she is feeling now. If you call her a baby killer, you could well push her away from God & the possibility of forgiveness.

It’s the medical terminology. A medical dictionary has a long list of different types of abortions. A stillborn birth and a miscarriage are medically termed “natural abortions.” These are completely different from the purposeful termination of a healthy pregnancy.
My mother saw the word written in her chart after my brother was born stillborn.
I think today doctors are more aware of language used, that patients and others do see charts, and will use terms like miscarriage and stillborn instead.

You rightly point to the fact that many woman are pressured to end their pregnancies. Dorothy Day, currently being considered for canonization is an example. Her boyfriend left her anyway.
Some of the most vocal pro-life advocates are those who once not only had abortions themselves, but actually performed them. Our role is to let women know their are alternatives to a “choice” that cannot be reversed. There are resources available to help.