Let's Talk Judaism!

[Valke2]

sorry if this has been asked as i didn’t have the time to read all 9 pages, but do jews believe christians are idolators?

i would prefer not to have a canned answer that is pc, we’re all big boys here and we can discuss the issue honestly and still be friends.

my thought is as a christian if i am wrong i am an idolator because i worship a man, as a catholic i am seriously wrong as i bow before the host. therefore to a jew who does not believe these things we must be idolators.

thanks.

There is a split withing Judaism as to whether you would be an idolator. If a Jew were to worship as a christian does, he or she would clearly be an idolator under Jewish law. The general and accepted stance within Judaism is that it is not idolatry for a christian to worship Jesus.

Having said all this, I can’t deny that many jews are taught in yeshuiva that christians are idolators. I don’t know how seriously they take such a teaching however, as under Jewish law they would be forbidden to conduct any business with such people.

I guess I would have to sum up the answer like this: The Talmudic prohibitions against idolators are largely based on situations where people act in the worst way because they do not worship the true God. Such prohibitions are generally narrowly viewed and more than balanced by the belief that the righteous of any religion have a share in the World to Come. This later understanding trumps the former.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

Thanks so much! I remember from reading Rabbi Telushkin, that in paradise, dwellers will be nourished by shekinah. It is also called the Sabbath Bride, if I am not mistaken?

 

[Lapell]

Indeed, I believe you are right, about the non-Jews (goyim)… provided that they follow seven Commandments which bind them.
As for Judaism’s concern about this left more than about the next, I can’t be certain that it’s the case, but I can understand the insistance on what to do in this life. If we want to live happily with God in the next world, we had better get prepared for it in this one first, of course! But maybe the observant Jews wouldn’t think it this way nevertheless, for we can try to already live happily with Him in this world, and try with all our hearts, souls and strengths to love God, to honour Him as He deserves.
As Christians, this is something we certainly want to do, especially if we don’t need to burden ourselves too heavily to achieve just that! Same as the observant Jews would want to, I’m sure…

 

[Lapell]

I don’t believe we know how God wrote His name on the Tablets (either the first or second set – the second set being written by Moses.) However, I could be mistaken about this.

I would not believe anyone knows other than Moses and maybe Joshua who was with him on Mt. Sinai, since Moses had destroyed the first tablets out of indignation and anger in the episode of the golden calf…
So anything else would be hypothetic and highly fantastic, vain speculations, the way I see it.

 

[Lapell]

Let me congratulate you, Valke2, for this thread and the very respectful way you are answering the questions. To you, Kaninchen and all other Jewish posters and/or viewers, Happy Chanukkah! ( I’m late for the beginning of it, though, sorry… but at least, it’s still going on.) Shalom to you all! May the Light of God lead you in all your ways and paths! Your God bless you!

 

[Lapell]

And to all the Christian posters and/or viewers, have a real Happy Christmas, all of you and your families and friends. Bye now!

 

[SecularHero]

Indeed, I believe you are right, about the non-Jews (goyim)… provided that they follow seven Commandments which bind them.
As for Judaism’s concern about this left more than about the next, I can’t be certain that it’s the case, but I can understand the insistance on what to do in this life. If we want to live happily with God in the next world, we had better get prepared for it in this one first, of course! But maybe the observant Jews wouldn’t think it this way nevertheless, for we can try to already live happily with Him in this world, and try with all our hearts, souls and strengths to love God, to honour Him as He deserves.
As Christians, this is something we certainly want to do, especially if we don’t need to burden ourselves too heavily to achieve just that! Same as the observant Jews would want to, I’m sure…

Who do you think you are to enforce laws on people outside of your religion? Following this logic you are “evil” because Baals religion has 1000 things you aren’t doing you must (Being apart of a cult of Baal would give someone a license to be an anti-Semite due to how much trash is said about that Diety)!

The Gentile nations have their own commandments and don’t need your Noahide laws. Remember why Hannukah is celebrated? you didn’t want to be assimilated by the Hellenes, even when you did live in their regions? Well us Gentile nations also don’t want you imposing commandments on us and I personally think Europe needs to return to it’s spiritual origins when great minds like Pytagoras, Plato, Hypathia, Aristotle, and such were around since christian rome destroyed many Sacred Temples of many different Religions religious diversity suffered.

Rome had aquaducts and heated plumbing, Africa had natural medicine, Heliocentricism, and round Earth knowledge, China built a great wall and developed awsome mathematics, the Mayans and Egyptians built cool pyramids. What did the Jewish population do other then write abunch of mythology about destroying some gold calf and inventing a really bad creation myth involving plants growing before the Sun was “created” and only having two people on the planet?

 

[SecularHero]

Seriously, only a false “god” would play favorites and get pissed and kill people for no reason as is found all over the old testament. Its obviously part of abunch of myths stolen from Sumer and Babylon. Gilgamesh also has a flood story “coincedentally”.

Don’t forget Japanese said Japanese are chosen people, India wrote Indians are the chosen people, Jews writing that the Jews are the “chosen people” really has quite a bias to it in line with other cultural biases. Well I say Atheist are the Chosen Ones, for it is us who have made society a tolerable place by bringing Europe out of the superstitious dark ages where people believed chanting would “cure” the plague lol

 

[mercygate]

Seriously, only a false “god” would play favorites and get pissed and kill people for no reason as is found all over the old testament. Its obviously part of abunch of myths stolen from Sumer and Babylon. Gilgamesh also has a flood story “coincedentally”.

Don’t forget Japanese said Japanese are chosen people, India wrote Indians are the chosen people, Jews writing that the Jews are the “chosen people” really has quite a bias to it in line with other cultural biases. Well I say Atheist are the Chosen Ones, for it is us who have made society a tolerable place by bringing Europe out of the superstitious dark ages where people believed chanting would “cure” the plague lol

Welcome to the Forums.

Apparently you did not read the rules of engagement when you signed on.

Our Jewish contributors have been extremely generous with their information and kind in their response to our questions on this thread.

Forget about religion. The tone you are taking here is an embarrassment to the human race. If this is what atheism does for you, count me out.

 

[SecularHero]

Welcome to the Forums.

Apparently you did not read the rules of engagement when you signed on.

Our Jewish contributors have been extremely generous with their information and kind in their response to our questions on this thread.

Forget about religion. The tone you are taking here is an embarrassment to the human race. If this is what atheism does for you, count me out.

I apologize for any offense (I weren’t even aware of any rules) however how can you say it’s an embarrasement to the Human Race when I point out obvious cultural biases? If God wanted Israel to be for the Jews why not have God come down and ask the Canaanites to politely relocate or become Jews themselves since if Yahweh came to them they would know he was God and they’d give up their so-called “Idolotrous” ways in the face of the “true” God?

America gives Israel $10,000 per Israeli citizen while Africa is starving and America is in a recession (they were making side effect free cheap vaccines when the IMF told them they were “Violating intellectual property rights” so Africa had to pay high prices for nasty side effects). And Palestinian Natives aren’t even allowed into certain neighborhoods in their own homeland, and get used as Human shields and have the water supply redistributed to the Jewish neighborhoods.

I am not an anti-Semite by any means since John Stewart, Adam Sandler, Einstein, and many other Jews are great people. However I have a problem with falsely justified oppression of other peoples and being divided among our fellow Human because of man made divisions like Jew/Gentile, Christian/Heathen, Muslim/Infidel, Democrat/Republican, etc, etc. Can’t we all just get along? I see bigotry against every religion on this forum and I found it through researching a certain religious groups rights on Google.

 

[mercygate]

I apologize for any offense (I weren’t even aware of any rules) however how can you say it’s an embarrasement to the Human Race when I point out obvious cultural biases? If God wanted Israel to be for the Jews why not have God come down and ask the Canaanites to politely relocate or become Jews themselves since if Yahweh came to them they would know he was God and they’d give up their so-called “Idolotrous” ways in the face of the “true” God?

America gives Israel $10,000 per Israeli citizen while Africa is starving and America is in a recession (they were making side effect free cheap vaccines when the IMF told them they were “Violating intellectual property rights” so Africa had to pay high prices for nasty side effects). And Palestinian Natives aren’t even allowed into certain neighborhoods in their own homeland, and get used as Human shields and have the water supply redistributed to the Jewish neighborhoods.

I am not an anti-Semite by any means since John Stewart, Adam Sandler, Einstein, and many other Jews are great people. However I have a problem with falsely justified oppression of other peoples and being divided among our fellow Human because of man made divisions like Jew/Gentile, Christian/Heathen, Muslim/Infidel, Democrat/Republican, etc, etc. Can’t we all just get along? I see bigotry against every religion on this forum and I found it through researching a certain religious groups rights on Google.

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

 

[Valke2]

Indeed, I believe you are right, about the non-Jews (goyim)… provided that they follow seven Commandments which bind them.
As for Judaism’s concern about this left more than about the next, I can’t be certain that it’s the case, but I can understand the insistance on what to do in this life. If we want to live happily with God in the next world, we had better get prepared for it in this one first, of course! But maybe the observant Jews wouldn’t think it this way nevertheless, for we can try to already live happily with Him in this world, and try with all our hearts, souls and strengths to love God, to honour Him as He deserves.
As Christians, this is something we certainly want to do, especially if we don’t need to burden ourselves too heavily to achieve just that! Same as the observant Jews would want to, I’m sure…

In general, judaism emphasises what we do in this world. While we certainly believe in an afterlife, there is not a lot of dogma on the afterlife. The emphasis is on the here and now.

 

[Valke2]

Let me congratulate you, Valke2, for this thread and the very respectful way you are answering the questions. To you, Kaninchen and all other Jewish posters and/or viewers, Happy Chanukkah! ( I’m late for the beginning of it, though, sorry… but at least, it’s still going on.) Shalom to you all! May the Light of God lead you in all your ways and paths! Your God bless you!

Thank You! And a merry chrismas to all my christian friends.

 

[Valke2]

I apologize for any offense (I weren’t even aware of any rules) however how can you say it’s an embarrasement to the Human Race when I point out obvious cultural biases? If God wanted Israel to be for the Jews why not have God come down and ask the Canaanites to politely relocate or become Jews themselves since if Yahweh came to them they would know he was God and they’d give up their so-called “Idolotrous” ways in the face of the “true” God?

Is there a question in here? Specifically, one about Judaism?

America gives Israel $10,000 per Israeli citizen

I don’t believe that’s correct. I’m pretty sure our aid now is largely loan guarantees. But is your problem with Israel getting money or Africa not getting enough?

The corruption in Africa is so rampant that almost 100% of foriegn aid goes into the pockets of its leaders and crime lords.

I am not an anti-Semite by any means since John Stewart, Adam Sandler, Einstein, and many other Jews are great people.

Wa this meant to be a joke?

 

[ChristIsLord]

i was listening to a podcast from a jewish rabbi named tovia singer (he’s a bright guy but if you’re a died in the wool christian or catholic i wouldn’t listen as he isn’t very pc or tolerant of christians, i would avoid it if you’re prone to anger from anyone mocking your faith). i’m kinda up and down considering judaism, noahide observer (however i find his impractical since i would have no faith community, place of worship, holy book, rituals etc… and really what fiun is that), islam, eastern religions etc… so i can listen to anything without getting too offended.

but anyway, he made a good point that the most violent and closed minded societies are monotheistic societies because it’s their way or nothing. to a pagan if they believe in 150 gods what’s one more of yours they don’t really care, and this is basically the roman empire pre-christianity. there was room for other faiths since one holding to their pagan faith had little to no bearing on the truth of your religion. yet today we have the three monotheistic religions and for each one to be true the other two have to be not only false but an abomination to god, this will definitely make tensions high and it has and continues to (don’t be fooled christians according to judaism will not have a share in the world to come, only noahide gentiles will. because worshiping christ is idolatry, and idolators will not have any share in the messianic era). now of course rabbi tover only said this about christians and muslims not jews even though condoned genocide against native pagans of the area is documented in the old testament over and over again but that’s another topic.

which leads me to my question for the resident jews here, i made a topic on this but it wasn’t answered and thus fell into the oblivion of the second page.

if the jews are to be a “light unto the world” how come they never attempted or attempt today to convert the nations? they never tried to educate their neighbors on the futility of idol worship, they simply slaughtered them. i don’t understand how a people can be a light unto the nations and make zero effort to teach the nations, and they also do not recommend conversion to the gentiles, which essentially makes the gentiles servants to the jews in the world to come after the messiah comes (from my understanding the jews will lead and rule the world while righteous gentiles are basically the servants of the jews, if i’m wrong here feel free to correct me, but i’ve listened to many rabbi’s on podcast via itunes and this is what i’ve gotten from them.) so essentially your eternal destination is simply based on whether you were born a jew or not since many orthodox do not accept conversion or even acknoledge a jew unles his mother is a jew.

so to a jew only jews and “righteous gentiles” will make it, to christians only believers in christ make the cut, and to muslims essntially only muslims make it. the curse of montheism, it leaves zero room to acknowledge truth in other religions, by doing that you condemn your own.

 

[Valke2]

i

And I’ll continue to ignore this one.

 

[ChristIsLord]

ChristIsLord;4585152:

i

And I’ll continue to ignore this one.

why? there’s nothing wrong with either of them, catholics sit here everyday and deal with much tougher questions and accusations laid at them, there was nothing moderately insulting about either post i made unless you’re trying very hard to be insulted.

stop trying to be so insulted and read my post with an open mind. just because i’m not kissing your backside and asking stupid questions about hannukah and stuff doesn’t mean the questions aren’t worthwhile.

then again judging on your limited knowledge of judaism perhaps it’s best you leave both of my inquiries alone?

 

[Michael_Francis]

Please remain charitable in all your posts in order to avoid moderator intervention.

 

[mercygate]

Please remain charitable in all your posts in order to avoid moderator intervention.

Actually, some of us have been praying for moderator intervention!

Merry Christmas, Michael.

 

[SecularHero]

Is there a question in here? Specifically, one about Judaism?

I don’t believe that’s correct. I’m pretty sure our aid now is largely loan guarantees. But is your problem with Israel getting money or Africa not getting enough?

The corruption in Africa is so rampant that almost 100% of foriegn aid goes into the pockets of its leaders and crime lords.

Wa this meant to be a joke?

No joke, I like the Daily Show and think Adam Sandlers a great actor. And who can deny Einsteins contributions to society? And my problem is with Africa not getting enough money. In any event people need to stop taking religion so seriously. Celebrating holidays and going to church/temple/etc is all good but when a rape victim doesn’t get an abortion or when people invade a country because “God” said to and that is when religion crosses a line it shouldn’t cross.