But, the two went their separate ways. With all due respect, to subscribe to that train of thought would put us in danger of antiquarianism.
With all due respect, Father, this is not necessarily about charity. It is about the fact that the faithful should not be displaced from the sanctuary in the name of Ecumenism. Furthermore, the Torah and the Book of the Gospels are not the same thing. The diocese could have offered the facilities at St. Michael’s or St. Juan Diego High Schools, or even the retreat center at Cedar Break. The diocese does have a plethora of facitliies in which this could have taken place without displacing the faithful out of their own parish.
I disagree. The faithful are not “displaced from the sanctuary in the name of Ecumenism.” Just what exactly would the faithful be doing in the sancturary outside of Mass?
So the Word of God is not the same thing as the Word of God?
Coulda, woulda, shoulda. They didn’t. Perhaps other arrangements could have been made but these are the ones that were. Its for a short period of time and is of minor inconvenience.
So praying to the Father using the Torah violates intergrity of sacred space? Not sure I follow on that one.
Perhaps.
Well seeing that the one who’s presence is contained in the Eucharist was Jewish while He walked the earth I don’t quite think he’d be upset to see Jewish symbols.
Perhaps.
Any tabernacle is the “home” of the Blessed Sacrament. It is apparently being moved to a Eucharistic adoration chapel.
I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean. The parish/diocese isn’t doing this for profit that I can tell.
Regardless of faith? This is the faith of our elder brothers in faith. I could even see this being done for Eastern Orthodox churches. There’s special connections that we have to Judaism that go beyond mere ecumenical gestures.
With all due respect, Father, the two forms of worship, synagogue and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass are incompatible. The synagogue form of worship has its roots during the Babylonian exile when there was no Temple and Ancient Israel wanted to have some form of worship. When Ancient Israel returned from their exile, they kept that particular form but, once the Temple was rebuilt, also had the cultic sacrificial worship. But, the two were separate. When the Temple was finally destroyed by the Romans, all that the Jews had left was the synagogue, while the Church, the New Israel, did not need the Temple, since Jesus had already established the new and everlasting covenant. While the Jews are our ancestors in the Faith of Abraham, we should not be reverting to the synagogue form of worship, as we, the New Israel, worship in Spirit and in Truth, within the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Be careful here. You’re overstepping a line. You’re speaking to a priest. If I remember correctly, our holy Father Francis always said that a priest is your master in all things but sin. I don’t know if you mean to come off sounding this way or if it’s the absence of a face and a voice that’s doing it for me. But your post above SOUNDS llike you know more than Father does on these matters.
I was not being rude to Father. However, as I read his last statement, it seems to me that there is relativism here. I have tried to be respectful and not condescending. However, there are some statements that I believe need clarification. To say that:Be careful here. You’re overstepping a line. You’re speaking to a priest. If I remember correctly, our holy Father Francis always said that a priest is your master in all things but sin. I don’t know if you mean to come off sounding this way or if it’s the absence of a face and a voice that’s doing it for me. But your post above SOUNDS llike you know more than Father does on these matters.
Our holy Father Francis and our other holy Father Dominic, always said that the true essence of poverty is to remember that in comparison to that word of the priest and the Church, our words are woth little. Why? Because we are not perfect. We are not in posession of the fullness of truth. We are working in that direction. Therefore, we can never take a position from above that makes us sound condescending to others. This is what happens when you suggest that someone’s position resembles “relativism.”
I would back off, if I were you. I admire you knowledge of the documents and I respect that. But I always caution when using the documents that we do not come off as superiors to others.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
would appear to me to be relativizing things, as I read it.
Be careful here. You’re overstepping a line. You’re speaking to a priest. If I remember correctly, our holy Father Francis always said that a priest is your master in all things but sin. I don’t know if you mean to come off sounding this way or if it’s the absence of a face and a voice that’s doing it for me. But your post above SOUNDS llike you know more than Father does on these matters.
Our holy Father Francis and our other holy Father Dominic, always said that the true essence of poverty is to remember that in comparison to that word of the priest and the Church, our words are woth little. Why? Because we are not perfect. We are not in posession of the fullness of truth. We are working in that direction. Therefore, we can never take a position from above that makes us sound condescending to others. This is what happens when you suggest that someone’s position resembles “relativism.”
I would back off, if I were you. I admire you knowledge of the documents and I respect that. But I always caution when using the documents that we do not come off as superiors to others.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
We are not reverting to synagogue form of worship so I fail to follow your logic here.
Yes and no. While the Gospels are the heart of all Scripture for Catholics the Old Testament is equally inspired by God:
Nor did I say that one form of worship is “as good as another.”
Father, I am not disputing the importance of the Old Testament. However, there is a huge difference between the Torah and the Book of the Gospels. Please note that I mention only the Gospels and not the rest of the New Testament. There is a reason why we do not process with the Lectionary. Either the deacon or a lay lector processes in with the Book of the Gospels. There is a reason why only you, the deacon (and, in some cases the bishop) are the sole ones to proclaim the Gospel. In some occasions, incense is used prior to the proclamation of the Gospel.
I have friends of mine who are Jewish. In fact, I am the representative of a council member, who is Jewish, on my city’s tourism board. We have discussions about our faiths, but, I do not believe that even he would think it proper to hold a synagogue service within the confines of the sanctuary of a Catholic church.
I’m not sure I’d say there’s a “huge difference” between the first 5 books of the OT and the Gospels of the NT. Yes, the Gospels are what everything points to but they are not more inspired than the rest of the Scriptures.
I wouldn’t say “radically different” either. Many of our forms of worship (including the liturgy of the hours) have their roots in the Judaic tradition.
What the Jewish faith community finds appropriate is up to them, I’m not going to wade into what they should or should not be doing in their faith.
They are using the Church to pray to God the Father and will use the Word of God. There’s not much of a veil being used here.
To appease them? No, its just the charitable thing to do given the circumstances.
Well, what if a nudist group wanted to use the chapel at the same time? What ifs can multiply in any direction. Let’s focus on what is.
By all appearances the proper authority has made this decision. Perhaps there could have been a better way to accomadate this Jewish group but this is the decision made by the proper authority. I can understand there being some disagreement here, but let’s not turn this into hysteria of “selling out” and “running away.”
I agree, and my fiance and I are going to voice our concern about it. Not to the bishop, since we’re between bishops, but possibly to the pastor at the church.
I don’t understand, Father. Why do you say “perhaps” to the above questions?
Father, with all due respect, the problem with the line of reasoning that you have presented is that you are now equating the synagogue service with what the laity do insofar as the communion services, which, in turn, have stringent regulations. I still maintain my viewpoint (and I am happy that we do agree with the Gospel insofar as the Mass is concerned) that the Church holds the Gospel in the highest regard within the Holy Sacrifice.
That’s completely uncalled for. I suggest some serious reflection as to the motivation for such uncharitable and false words.