Liberal Catholics, why are you still members of The Church?

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johnnyjones said:
The OP has a valid point. There are always exceptions but liberalism in Catholicism IS more often associated with gay marriage or pro choice. If one is so vehemetely opposed to such basics , can you really feel at ease vilolating these tenants of the faith even if it is just in thought? Apparently so. Just look at the political threads on this site and see the “Catholics” that use every excuse in the book to vote for a pro abortion, pro same sex marriage candidate.

The rationalization is astonishing.
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Who in the entire Church is not a sinner?
 
clem456 said:
The Church teaches that abortion and homosexual acts are sins, not just social issues up for debate.
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Dear Clem456–

I do understand, and I did not mean to trivialize those issues. I only meant that in the sense of religious worship, some matters are more strictly Catholic (thoughts on the Eucharist, praying the Rosary, praying Novenas, thoughts on the Immaculate Conception, etc.). A person of any religious faith can be pro-life and anti-homosexuality; it’s the spiritual beliefs and practices that tend to identify someone specifically as Catholic.

(I hope I didn’t confuse things even more! I certainly apologize if I my original post made it seem like these are insignificant issues!)

Jala
 
johnnyjones said:
There is a difference between being a sinner and promoting sin. Why endorse the sin of abortion and same sex marriage?
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I cannot say why one endorses any sin. Also, I cannot judge them.

Where do you propose one find correction?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I cannot say why one endorses any sin. Also, I cannot judge them.

Where do you propose one find correction?
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In the church. If as a Catholic I steal something, I’ve done wrong, I need forgivness. Should I get to a podium, a website, a friends ear ,and proclaim that my stealing is acceptable even though I know the church teaches otherwise?

Calling a sin a sin is not judging, that’s an oldie that gets thrown out there every so often to defend some kind of position. If it were the case that the church couldn’t even tell us what a sin was, where would we be?
 
johnnyjones said:
In the church. If as a Catholic I steal something, I’ve done wrong, I need forgivness. Should I get to a podium, a website, a friends ear ,and proclaim that my stealing is acceptable even though I know the church teaches otherwise?

Calling a sin a sin is not judging, that’s an oldie that gets thrown out there every so often to defend some kind of position. If it were the case that the church couldn’t even tell us what a sin was, where would we be?
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Where do you get your authority to decide how a person is to be dealt with over their sins?

Calling a sin a sin is not judging. When you accuse another of a sinful intent in their heart, even after being corrected, that is definitely judging.

Christ said to love each other, including our enemies, as He loved us. There is no love in desiring a division in the body of Christ by separating others. There was no instruction from Christ to separate anyone. Look at the example of the single ‘lost sheep’.

If we let the laity separate another from the Church, it wouldn’t take long before there was no Church. We are all sinners and come short.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Where do you get your authority to decide how a person is to be dealt with over their sins?

Calling a sin a sin is not judging. When you accuse another of a sinful intent in their heart, even after being corrected, that is definitely judging.

Christ said to love each other, including our enemies, as He loved us. There is no love in desiring a division in the body of Christ by separating others. There was no instruction from Christ to separate anyone. Look at the example of the single ‘lost sheep’.

If we let the laity separate another from the Church, it wouldn’t take long before there was no Church. We are all sinners and come short.
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I see your looking for some kind of crazy debate that will find a way of justifying a pro abortion belief as a Catholic.

You can not hold a pro “choice” position and be catholic. I’ll give you one resource from an apologist on this site alone, after that your own your own by simply doing a google search. Think Pope as well.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=623915
 
While it is true that we are all sinners, and all fall short of the glory of God, it is prudent to be able to recognize sin, and a spiritual work of mercy to gently tell people when you believe they are sinning. That is not the same thing as judging the person, as that is always up to God. However, we are our brother’s keeper.

That being said, once you are baptized a Catholic, you are always a Catholic. You are reborn into the spiritual family of God. There is no getting out of it, even if you run away from home. The spiritual DNA stays with you forever. So, when the Church “excommunicates” someone, it is not to say that that person is no longer Catholic, but that they are no longer in FULL communion with the church. If excommunication actually divorced someone from the Church, then they would need to be re-baptized to come back into the Church. But all that is necessary is confession.
 
johnnyjones said:
I see your looking for some kind of crazy debate that will find a way of justifying a pro abortion belief as a Catholic.

You can not hold a pro “choice” position and be catholic. I’ll give you one resource from an apologist on this site alone, after that your own your own by simply doing a google search. Think Pope as well.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=623915
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I haven’t seen anyone make those claims in this thread.

However, I believe there are people in error that are Catholic. None of us are perfect, that’s why we are seeking God through His Church. I don’t think anyone can achieve perfection in this lifetime. 🤷
 
babs57 said:
While it is true that we are all sinners, and all fall short of the glory of God, it is prudent to be able to recognize sin, and a spiritual work of mercy to gently tell people when you believe they are sinning. That is not the same thing as judging the person, as that is always up to God. However, we are our brother’s keeper.

That being said, once you are baptized a Catholic, you are always a Catholic. You are reborn into the spiritual family of God. There is no getting out of it, even if you run away from home. The spiritual DNA stays with you forever. So, when the Church “excommunicates” someone, it is not to say that that person is no longer Catholic, but that they are no longer in FULL communion with the church. If excommunication actually divorced someone from the Church, then they would need to be re-baptized to come back into the Church. But all that is necessary is confession.
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I can agree with this.
 
Anyone who could not sign a copy of the Catechism in good faith is, by definition, not a Catholic and they might even be (probably are) a majority of those who claim to be.
 
…I believe In the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, The Communion of Saints…

We do not say I believe in the Holy Spirit sometimes, some of what the Church teaches…

we can call ourselves Catholic, but will Jesus recognize us as His, or will He say, I never knew you?

Jesus have mercy.

We CAN SAY I was baptized Catholic but I don’t follow its’ Tenet because I, I, I , am so much wiser than the Church… Hate the sin but love the sinner.

JESUS, I TRUST IN YOU.
 
StevieD said:
Anyone who could not sign a copy of the Catechism in good faith is, by definition, not a Catholic and they might even be (probably are) a majority of those who claim to be.
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I never had to sign a copy of the Catechism; however, I agree with it, in it’s entirety.

We have authoritative men in charge of the Church. They confirm us.
1Co 11:28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice.
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As babs57 said, ‘…once Catholic, always Catholic…’. I’ve summarized, but the thought’s the same. We have Catholics in good standing, and Catholics not in communion, yet they are still Catholics.

I don’t think there are a great number that claim to be, without some kind of real belief that keeps them identifying themselves as Catholic. While they may have imperfections in some way, I have my own imperfections and don’t know of anyone in the Church without imperfections.

Anyways, the topic of the thread almost seems to be an invitation to leave the Church. I cannot agree with desiring anyone leaving the Church, especially as a layperson.

Below is an excerpt from one of Christ’s teaching to the authoritative men of the Church. While he teaches them when to treat someone as a heathen and a publican, there is no such teaching given to the multitude (laypersons).
Mat 18:10 See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Mat 18:12 What think you? If a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them should go astray: doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the mountains, and goeth to seek that which is gone astray?
Mat 18:13 And if it so be that he find it: Amen I say to you, he rejoiceth more for that, than for the ninety-nine that went not astray.
Mat 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father, who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Mat 18:15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother.
Mat 18:16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.
Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Mat 18:21 Then came Peter unto him and said: Lord, how often shall my brother offend against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith to him: I say not to thee, till seven times; but till seventy times seven times.
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…and He didn’t make it easy on the men of the Church, ‘but till seventy times seven times.’
 
babs57 said:
While it is true that we are all sinners, and all fall short of the glory of God, it is prudent to be able to recognize sin, and a spiritual work of mercy to gently tell people when you believe they are sinning. That is not the same thing as judging the person, as that is always up to God. However, we are our brother’s keeper.

That being said, once you are baptized a Catholic, you are always a Catholic. You are reborn into the spiritual family of God. There is no getting out of it, even if you run away from home. The spiritual DNA stays with you forever. So, when the Church “excommunicates” someone, it is not to say that that person is no longer Catholic, but that they are no longer in FULL communion with the church. If excommunication actually divorced someone from the Church, then they would need to be re-baptized to come back into the Church. But all that is necessary is confession.
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Yes , recognize sin. And it is not the same as judging, which is exactly what i was saying. Your further points are excellent.
 
Cinette said:
I apologise. I think I was still incensed with other posts and ended up “picking” on you. I do think we ought to encourage other members and pray for them. I am a revert and sometimes I get a little excited. I have been thru the hoops - revolutionary, progressive, secularist… then I came to my senses and became orthodox. :)😉
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Good for you:thumbsup:
 
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