Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seamus_L
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
As I’ve said elsewhere, it’s the biggest reason to stay out of this thing and not help anybody. If they gain control, I give it less than a year before we start reading headlines about them persecuting Libyan Christians.

All foreign aid to all Islamic countries should be suspended indefinitely until they stop persecuting Christians and other religious minorities–Jews, Bahais, Azzidis, whoever.
 
When it comes to politics in the House of Islam, it is never a choice between worse and better, but always a choice between bad and worse.
 
Man, it’s Afghanistan all over again. But instead of the Soviets it’s a crazed dictator who seems to have lost of sense of reality.
 
As I’ve said elsewhere, it’s the biggest reason to stay out of this thing and not help anybody. If they gain control, I give it less than a year before we start reading headlines about them persecuting Libyan Christians.

All foreign aid to all Islamic countries should be suspended indefinitely until they stop persecuting Christians and other religious minorities–Jews, Bahais, Azzidis, whoever.
There are no Jews in Libya precisely because of the antisemitic policies of the Qaddafi regime. There used to be 36,000, and he got rid of them all (and I’m guessing the almost nonexistent Christian community has dwindled for the same reason). In the case of Libya, Qaddafi isn’t even a Mubarak type “lesser of too evils.” His people actually really do hate him because of how bad he is. If we are to buy Darryl’s oversimplification of politics in “the House of Islam” (as if there were such an entity), I don’t think Gaddafi could be said to be bad, rather than worse.

Personally, I think if we apply the same standards, we may as well start reducing aid to Israel until they start changing their policies toward their occupied territories, but that’s a different topic. By all means, though, cut all American support to Saudi Arabia, to Yemen, etc. Let’s see how much things improve.
 
There are no Jews in Libya precisely because of the antisemitic policies of the Qaddafi regime. There used to be 36,000, and he got rid of them all (and I’m guessing the almost nonexistent Christian community has dwindled for the same reason). In the case of Libya, Qaddafi isn’t even a Mubarak type “lesser of too evils.” His people actually really do hate him because of how bad he is. If we are to buy Darryl’s oversimplification of politics in “the House of Islam” (as if there were such an entity), I don’t think Gaddafi could be said to be bad, rather than worse.

Personally, I think if we apply the same standards, we may as well start reducing aid to Israel until they start changing their policies toward their occupied territories, but that’s a different topic. By all means, though, cut all American support to Saudi Arabia, to Yemen, etc. Let’s see how much things improve.
I never said which choice was worse, and which was merely the bad one.
Indeed which would be worse—Gadaffi or El quada?

I really don’t know.🤷
But those very much are the choices. It is not between Gadaffi, and a shiny democracy with human rights and tolerance of Christians and Jews and apostates
That would be the least likely outcome.

Maybe Iraq really is the best that can be hoped for.

‘House of Islam’ is not my term either, but an Islamic one—as opposed to the ‘House of War’ used in Islamic literature to refer to the as yet un-Islamified world.
 
As for giving less aid to the ME dictators, that is what the phrase “Drill, baby, Drill !” refers to.
And more emphasis on nuclear energy too.

More money in the hands of domestic producers corresponds to less money in the hands of the Saudis and the Libyan dictators. It is not the charitable pittances that are propping up these regimes, but the oil wealth that is the source of their power.
 
Or as Kissinger said about the Iran-Iraq war between the ayatollahs and Saddam.

“I hope they both lose”.
 
What sort of foreign policy is it that assumes dropping bombs on Kadafi’s hardware is going to improve anything? Creating a political vacuum that is already being filled by radical jihadi’s with less to lose than Kadafi … is a MidEast strategy?
 
40.png
Darryl1958:
I never said which choice was worse, and which was merely the bad one.
Indeed which would be worse—Gadaffi or El quada?
We are not currently choosing between Gaddafi and Al-Qaedda in Libya any more than we were choosing between the Nazis and the communists in West Germany after the Second World War. Everyone knew there were high ranking Nazis, SS officers and such in high places in the Federal Republic’s government, the same people who were are mortal enemies, but it was tolerated out of necessity. The Bundesrepublik, of course, did not become a Nazi state just because many Nazis were were in its ranks.

Not to say that the forseeable future of Libya will be quite as bright as that of the Bundesrepublik, put the point is, sure, some Al-Qaeda members or frmer-members figh with the rebels. The leaders, however, are mostly dissenting former government leaders (cabinet members and whatnot). Al-Qaeda is by know means a driving force in the rebellion. And, as Donald Rumsfeld once said, “you go to war with the army you have.”
As for giving less aid to the ME dictators, that is what the phrase “Drill, baby, Drill !” refers to.
And more emphasis on nuclear energy too.
I was just pointing out that what happens if the House of Saud is overthrown, it won’t likely be a pleasant sight. I admit, I have know idea what we should do about our Arab dictator “friends.” There’s no good answer to that question. Just a long road ahead. Of course, it’ll be interesting to see how the changes in the Magreb effect things when the dust settles.
 
As for giving less aid to the ME dictators, that is what the phrase “Drill, baby, Drill !” refers to…
The total number of proven and recoverable crude oil reserves within US territory is only 134 billion barrels which would only last 20 years at our current consumption rate. Want oil shale? Fine, but it loses nearly half of it’s fuel value in production so you might as well cut the reserve in half. There’s a very large amount that is theorized to exist, for example, in the Green River Formation but how much of this theortical deposit can be extracted is unknown. There’s a reason why no big oil company has been interested in oil shale since the 1970s; it’s expensive to extract, expensive to process, and difficult to sell.

Bottom line: You want enough oil to satiate American demand; you’d better be willing to kiss some dictator patutie. So if anyone is wondering why no one in the international community has said a peep about the Saudis murdering their own citizens and sending troops into Bahrain to murder protestors there; you have your answer.
And more emphasis on nuclear energy too.
A vast expansion of nuclear power is neither economically or environmentally feasible. It takes ten years and $10-12 billion to build a single nuclear power plant, they are very expensive to operate, and just one plant produces 20 tons of radioactive waste every year. It also wouldn’t do much to resolve our reliance on foreign oil in this country unless the majority of drivers are using electric vehicles. 75% of oil consumption in this country is accounted for by transportation.
 
We are not currently choosing between Gaddafi and Al-Qaedda in Libya any more than we were choosing between the Nazis and the communists in West Germany after the Second World War.
First, I have no idea what we are choosing between. Obama didn’t make it all that clear, and there does not seem to be a consensus among any of the other partners about what this action is meant to accomplish, and what the end game will be.
Second, only by enforcing a regime change in Germany after the second war did Germany become communist or democratic, respective as to what was imposed on them by who.
Is the end game going to be something like that in Libya then?
Everyone knew there were high ranking Nazis, SS officers and such in high places in the Federal Republic’s government, the same people who were are mortal enemies, but it was tolerated out of necessity. The Bundesrepublik, of course, did not become a Nazi state just because many Nazis were were in its ranks.
Not to say that the forseeable future of Libya will be quite as bright as that of the Bundesrepublik, put the point is, sure, some Al-Qaeda members or frmer-members figh with the rebels. The leaders, however, are mostly dissenting former government leaders (cabinet members and whatnot). Al-Qaeda is by know means a driving force in the rebellion. And, as Donald Rumsfeld once said, “you go to war with the army you have.”
Oh, okay.
If you say so.
Lots of detail there, but not too sure where this is addressing me, either for or against.
I was just pointing out that what happens if the House of Saud is overthrown, it won’t likely be a pleasant sight. I admit, I have know idea what we should do about our Arab dictator “friends.”
Hmmm. Not too different than my oversimplification.😉

Where are the good choices in this Arab Spring?
There’s no good answer to that question. Just a long road ahead. Of course, it’ll be interesting to see how the changes in the Magreb effect things when the dust settles.
There are not too many good options to support, for sure.
Simple, and succinct.🙂
 
The total number of proven and recoverable crude oil reserves within US territory is only 134 billion barrels which would only last 20 years at our current consumption rate. Want oil shale? Fine, but it loses nearly half of it’s fuel value in production so you might as well cut the reserve in half. There’s a very large amount that is theorized to exist, for example, in the Green River Formation but how much of this theortical deposit can be extracted is unknown. There’s a reason why no big oil company has been interested in oil shale since the 1970s; it’s expensive to extract, expensive to process, and difficult to sell.
Never know until you try.
I hear North Dakota is booming, btw.
Bottom line: You want enough oil to satiate American demand; you’d better be willing to kiss some dictator patutie. So if anyone is wondering why no one in the international community has said a peep about the Saudis murdering their own citizens and sending troops into Bahrain to murder protestors there; you have your answer.
It is a good thing that the people of the West recognize that they have interests in ME oil for sure, Europe more than America even. But the less dependent on this region, the better.
I am pretty sure that Bush I did enter in into Gulf War I at the behest of the Saudi princes, for example, but that idea didn’t sell to the America public.
The idea that filipina maids were getting raped in Kuwait did animate the American public to support the war, so that is what Bush I went with.
American self-interest in the security of the Saudi oil supply was still the same as it ever was, regardless of what the pretext of the military action was going to be.

That is what is known as marketing.🙂
A vast expansion of nuclear power is neither economically or environmentally feasible. It takes ten years and $10-12 billion to build a single nuclear power plant, they are very expensive to operate, and just one plant produces 20 tons of radioactive waste every year. It also wouldn’t do much to resolve our reliance on foreign oil in this country unless the majority of drivers are using electric vehicles. 75% of oil consumption in this country is accounted for by transportation.
Other countries have done it quite well actually. The environmental lobby and the left have choked the development almost out of existence through their politics of fear wrapped up in red tape, but of all the ‘clean’ energies, this is the one that has the most potential.
It needs a political will though, to get the ball rolling.
Want electric cars?
Then make the electricity to run them.

I am pretty sure that Americans are capable. What is lacking is the political leadership to counter the hysteria fostered by the left over the environmental and the like.
 
What do you expect from our dear leader? It never fails to amaze me how much evil is wrought by our commander of the culture of death. he and his administration can’t even not support al qaeda.
 
I find it even more ironic that Gaddafi said that al-Qaeda was behind this uprising.
 
What sort of foreign policy is it that assumes dropping bombs on Kadafi’s hardware is going to improve anything? Creating a political vacuum that is already being filled by radical jihadi’s with less to lose than Kadafi … is a MidEast strategy?
The best that can be hoped for through this is what…

a long-festering stalemate, such as what has been imposed in the Levant maybe?

I am unclear as to what the ultimate goal of this action is going to be.
 
It seems a rather cynical and bleak portrait of the world to insist that the oppressed not even try to free themselves from tyranny. More than that, it seems rather cynical and selfish to say that we, born in the West, are fortunate enough by accident of birth to have freedom, but that they, born in Libya, should never try to free their homeland, and simply accept that they are to forever be considered less important than our own comfort.
 
Never know until you try. I hear North Dakota is booming, btw.
Supposedly, but in the grand scheme there’s not much there. The US consumes more oil in a year than the entire Bakken Formation has to offer.
Other countries have done it quite well actually…
Those countries are small and don’t have anywhere near the energy needs we do. Nuclear plants account for production of 19.6% of our current power consumption. We have 104 nuclear power plants but if you want to bring production up to 50% you’d have to build an additional 162 nuclear power plants at a cost of between $1.6 - 2 trillion. The cost alone should be enough to raise an eyebrow but also consider that 266 nuclear power plants would generate 5.32 kilotons of radioactive waste every year.
What is lacking is the political leadership to counter the hysteria fostered by the left over the environmental and the like.
You cant very well counter the Hanford Nuclear Reservation which has proven over the last 60-70 years that neither the government or private industry can be trusted to handle nuclear waste properly.
 
Barack Obama is still saying no ground forces will be sent into Libya. Watch all that change when the Al Qaeda backed rebels the US is aiding, get ready to capture Tripoli. Hopefully by then the American people will not tolerate this anymore, but I wouldn’t count on it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top