Lies to watch out for

[staffsgt7]

Just as Scripture in the Christain Bible and belief is to kill, convert and subjugate the non-believer.

Please show those passages.

 

[josephdavid]

The Arabic name for “God” is the word “Al-ilah.”** It is a generic title for whatever god was considered the highest god. **Different Arab tribes used “Allah” to refer to its personal high god.
“**Allah” was being worshipped at the Kaa’ba in Mecca by Arabs prior to the time of Mohammed. **It was formerly the name of the chief god among the numerous idols (360) in the Kaaba in Mecca before Mohammed made them into monotheists. Historians have shown that the moon god called “Hubal” was the god to whom Arabs prayed at the Kaa’ba and they used the name “Allah” when they prayed.

Today a Muslim is one who submits to the God Allah.
letusreason.org/islam6.htm

In Scripture God was called by many names including the Aremaic name Ellah (Pronounced Allah).

Furthermore Christmas Day was originally a pagan holiday before the Pope of that time declared it a day to celebrate Christ instead of a pagan ritual. The Christmas tree was a pagan ritual that many of us use today.

I weep for the self rightous who call themselves Christian. I pray for them.

 

[StrawberryJam]

And their laws deal with murderers and other miscreants. If you are talking about the past then that is a usual response in defense of Islam that still carries on its Jihad and murdering and doing other nasties to people to this day. Hindus killed people too and they are being caught in yet another Jihad just because they are Hindus. How come you don’t bring up Hindus? Or communists? There is a Jihad that was recently declared against the Chinese communists just this year.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/TROP.jpg

Bringing up Christians while discussing Islam is included in my signature - Moldy Muslim Excuses. Please watch it - it is a few minutes in to the video and it is labeled ‘tu quoque’. Can you stick to the topic?

I think I get the point, all believers are potential nutcases, am I right?

 

[Hisalone]

In Scripture God was called by many names including the Aremaic name Ellah (Pronounced Allah).

Furthermore Christmas Day was originally a pagan holiday before the Pope of that time declared it a day to celebrate Christ instead of a pagan ritual. The Christmas tree was a pagan ritual that many of us use today.

I weep for the self rightous who call themselves Christian. I pray for them.

Baal was a cheif god of the Phonecians, If a delusional prophet started a new religion which called its name Baal it could neer be accepted.
Those that mix the holy with the profane end up profane not holy.

 

[staffsgt7]

Yes, all agnostics share the same worldview, and hold meetings in secret to overthrow establishments and go on killing sprees.

How do you go from an agnostic, McVeigh who was a terrorist working with the Baathists, to 'all agnostics have secret agenda going on a killing spree?

I think the logic here has gone amiss.

I even admitted that atheists committed some of the worst tragedies in the 20th century and that doesn’t make all atheists terrorists. Ayers was a terrorist and that doesn’t make others a terrorist.

I would recommend doing some studying of Islam. Most who start defending it who are not Muslims don’t know what the Koran and sunna say, or its history of conquest by the sword.

 

[josephdavid]

Please show those passages.

From Deuteronomy 13

1"(A)If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,
2and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘(B)Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’

3you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is (C)testing you to find out if (D)you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4"(E)You shall follow the LORD your God and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and (F)cling to Him.

5"But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be (G)put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against the LORD your God who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, (H)to seduce you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk (I)So you shall purge the evil from among you.

6"(J)If your brother, your mother’s son, or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul, entice you secretly, saying, ‘(K)Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom neither you nor your fathers have known,

7of the gods of the peoples who are around you, near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end),

8(L)you shall not yield to him or listen to him; (M)and your eye shall not pity him, nor shall you spare or conceal him.

9"(N)But you shall surely kill him; (O)your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10"So you shall stone him to death because he has sought (P)to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

11"Then (Q)all Israel will hear and be afraid, and will never again do such a wicked thing among you.

12"If you hear in one of your cities, which the LORD your God is giving you to live in, anyone saying that

13some worthless men have gone out from among you and have seduced the inhabitants of their city, saying, ‘(R)Let us go and serve other gods’ (whom you have not known),

14then you shall investigate and search out and inquire thoroughly. If it is true and the matter established that this abomination has been done among you,

15(S)you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it and all that is in it and its cattle with the edge of the sword.

16"(T)Then you shall gather all its booty into the middle of its open square and burn the city and all its booty with fire as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God; and it shall be a (U)ruin forever. It shall never be rebuilt.

17"Nothing from that which is put under the ban shall cling to your hand, in order that the LORD may turn from (V)His burning anger and (W)show mercy to you, and have compassion on you and (X)make you increase, just (Y)as He has sworn to your fathers,

18if you will listen to the voice of the LORD your God, keeping all His commandments which I am commanding you today, and doing what is right in the sight of the LORD your God.

From Exodus 31:

12The LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
13"But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, '(P)You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is (Q)a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

14’Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. (R)Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people.

15’(S)For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a (T)sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; (U)whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

From Numbers 25:

1While Israel remained at (A)Shittim, the people began (B)to play the harlot with the daughters of Moab.
2For (C)they invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods.

3So (D)Israel joined themselves to Baal of Peor, and the LORD was angry against Israel.

4The LORD said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of the people and execute them in broad daylight before the LORD, (E)so that the fierce anger of the LORD may turn away from Israel.”

5So Moses said to the judges of Israel, “Each of you (F)slay his men who have joined themselves to Baal of Peor.”

From Judges 18:

27Then they took what Micah had made and the priest who had belonged to him, and came to (M)Laish, to a people quiet and secure, and struck them with the edge of the sword; and they burned the city with fire.

28And there was no one to deliver them, because it was far from Sidon and they had no dealings with anyone, and it was in the valley which is near (N)Beth-rehob. And they rebuilt the city and lived in it.

 

[josephdavid]

Please show those passages.

From Judges 21

10And the congregation sent 12,000 of the valiant warriors there, and commanded them, saying, "Go and (F)strike the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword, with the women and the little ones.

11"This is the thing that you shall do: you (G)shall utterly destroy every man and every woman who has lain with a man."

12And they found among the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead 400 young virgins who had not known a man by lying with him; and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh, which is in the land of Canaan.

13Then the whole congregation sent word and spoke to the sons of Benjamin who were (H)at the rock of Rimmon, and (I)proclaimed peace to them.

14Benjamin returned at that time, and they gave them the women whom they had kept alive from the women of Jabesh-gilead; yet they were not enough for them.

15And the people were sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had made a breach in the tribes of Israel.

16Then the elders of the congregation said, “What shall we do for wives for those who are left, since the women are destroyed out of Benjamin?”

17They said, "There must be an inheritance for the survivors of Benjamin, so that a tribe will not be blotted out from Israel.

18"But we cannot give them wives of our daughters." For the sons of Israel (J)had sworn, saying, “Cursed is he who gives a wife to Benjamin.”

19So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the LORD from year to year in (K)Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.”

20And they commanded the sons of Benjamin, saying, "Go and lie in wait in the vineyards,

21and watch; and behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to (L)take part in the dances, then you shall come out of the vineyards and each of you shall catch his wife from the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.

22"It shall come about, when their fathers or their brothers come to complain to us, that we shall say to them, ‘Give them to us voluntarily, because we did not take for each man of Benjamin a wife in battle, (M)nor did you give them to them, else you would now be guilty.’"

23The sons of Benjamin did so, and took wives according to their number from those who danced, whom they carried away. And they went and returned to their inheritance and (N)rebuilt the cities and lived in them.

24The sons of Israel departed from there at that time, every man to his tribe and family, and each one of them went out from there to his inheritance.

25(O)In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

 

[staffsgt7]

I think I get the point, all believers are potential nutcases, am I right?

Are you reading? Did you read that Jihad can be done by the sword, the mouth and by their wealth/money? But there is this thing we label ‘sudden jihad syndrome’. It is a western term put on a terrorist when we are surprised that an act was committed by a seemingly nonviolent person.

Unfortunately, I have written for you what Jihad is and if you want to do further studying then fine. If not, fine too. But don’t start posting illogical things just because the Islamic texts don’t bear out what you are trying to prove. In fact, I haven’t gotten any Islamic texts from you - just some wishful thinking.

 

[dzheremi]

Self-hating Christians do more to help Islamic terrorism than anybody. Stand up for yourselves and your religion by recognizing that is NO moral equivalency between Islamic terrorism and Christian terrorism. One is a cornerstone of the faith, and one is an aberration of it.

Some of my people were also converted to Christianity by violence that is every bit as deplorable as that which is used by Islamic terrorism. Nobody excuses it, nor should they. But it is a part of our PAST, not of the present, and (hopefully) not of the future.

As a now-absent Orthodox poster once pointed out, during the war in Yugoslavia the head of the Serbian Orthodox Church forbade any conversions, lest anyone be subject to forced conversion. When is the last time you heard anything similar coming from a leader of Islam?

The message from Islam is quite different, and all the worse because it is UNREFORMABLE and still most certainly in effect (ask any Copt or Assyrian):

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah…”

 

[josephdavid]

How do you go from an agnostic, McVeigh who was a terrorist working with the Baathists, to 'all agnostics have secret agenda going on a killing spree?

I think the logic here has gone amiss.

I even admitted that atheists committed some of the worst tragedies in the 20th century and that doesn’t make all atheists terrorists. Ayers was a terrorist and that doesn’t make others a terrorist.

I would recommend doing some studying of Islam. Most who start defending it who are not Muslims don’t know what the Koran and sunna say, or its history of conquest by the sword.

Then those same people should study Pope Innocent, Nazi Germany, The recent history of the Congo and the Balkans.

Even Pope Benedict ignorrantly said Christianity was not forced upon the indigenous people of the Americas.

 

[staffsgt7]

From Judges 21

Thanks.

Now, understand the difference between Jihad and this piece of history that the Jews did. In Jihad the salvation of a Muslim’s soul depends on them doing it. In this piece of history, the salvation of a Jew is not dependent on doing this forevermore. Nor was the salvation of their soul dependent on doing this. I wrote out what Jihad is in sharia laws that are based on the Koran and sunnah (sira and hadiths). And Jihad is a duty of all Muslims to do. And I would suspect you are not really reading what I have posted in the past.

Your id is one of two notable Jews Joseph and David. David killed a giant. There was no order from David to kill anymore giants. Look at Moses, he was instrumental in the deaths of a lot of Egyptians. He gave them chance after chance to let them go on their way and the Pharoah would not so in the end the Pharoah lost a lot of people. There was no order to keep on killing for the Jews to be saved.

 

[StrawberryJam]

In Scripture God was called by many names including the Aremaic name Ellah (Pronounced Allah).

Furthermore Christmas Day was originally a pagan holiday before the Pope of that time declared it a day to celebrate Christ instead of a pagan ritual. The Christmas tree was a pagan ritual that many of us use today.

I weep for the self rightous who call themselves Christian. I pray for them.

You lost me there Joe. But, it was nice talking to you. I wish you well.

 

[josephdavid]

Self-hating Christians do more to help Islamic terrorism than anybody. Stand up for yourselves and your religion by recognizing that is NO moral equivalency between Islamic terrorism and Christian terrorism. One is a cornerstone of the faith, and one is an aberration of it.

Some of my people were also converted to Christianity by violence that is every bit as deplorable as that which is used by Islamic terrorism. Nobody excuses it, nor should they. But it is a part of our PAST, not of the present, and (hopefully) not of the future.

As a now-absent Orthodox poster once pointed out, during the war in Yugoslavia the head of the Serbian Orthodox Church forbade any conversions, lest anyone be subject to forced conversion. When is the last time you heard anything similar coming from a leader of Islam?

The message from Islam is quite different, and all the worse because it is UNREFORMABLE and still most certainly in effect (ask any Copt or Assyrian):

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: “I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah…”

I agree with you in most of what you say. Terrorism is terrorism and has been used in the name of God or Allah and is deplorable.

I disagree with you that Islam is not reformable. I believe that Islam is going through a period similar to Christinity and that is by the sword instead of by the heart. Just like it was in the Crusades, and here in the Western Hempisphere and that was mainly by the Sword and not by love. I pray in time the majority of Muslims will stand up against their violent minority.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Then those same people should study Pope Innocent, Nazi Germany, The recent history of the Congo and the Balkans.

Even Pope Benedict ignorrantly said Christianity was not forced upon the indigenous people of the Americas.

Nor did those Alaskans escape the fate of those christians out there to force their faith on them either.

 

[josephdavid]

You lost me there Joe. But, it was nice talking to you. I wish you well.

Lost you how? I am not wrong sorry. you can look it up yourself.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I agree with you in most of what you say. Terrorism is terrorism and has been used in the name of God or Allah and is deplorable.

I disagree with you that Islam is not reformable. I believe that Islam is going through a period similar to Christinity and that is by the sword instead of by the heart. Just like it was in the Crusades, and here in the Western Hempisphere and that was mainly by the Sword and not by love. I pray in time the majority of Muslims will stand up against their violent minority.

Islam is intertwined with politics in shira law. In those areas where it is the rule, it can not be reformable. Christianity is not dependent on any political position and lives in all cultures and places.

 

[staffsgt7]

Then those same people should study Pope Innocent, Nazi Germany, The recent history of the Congo and the Balkans.

Even Pope Benedict ignorrantly said Christianity was not forced upon the indigenous people of the Americas.

Ah, you bring up a Pope that was cleared of any wrong doings. I do not look at what he did as correct, and I don’t know what other Catholics feel about him but he was just smarmy and there was no order from the Pope to kill anyone for the salvation of their souls. What he did was to mislead a lot of people instead of standing up to what is considered evil in Catholicism.

But you don’t know the history of the Muslim brotherhood whose founder and one of its prominent Muftis - the Grand Mufti of Jerusaelm - were Hitler’s acolytes. Al Bana, the founder of the MB, and al Husseini the Grand Mufti, were instrumental in Hitler’s ‘Final Solution’ which caused the deaths of not only millions of Jews, but also millions of Christians. And al Husseini gave Hitler the use of many Bosnian muslims to form two panzer units.

Al Husseini wanted to continue the ‘final solution’ into the Middle East after Hitler was done in Europe but wasn’t able to because Hitler was defeated. These miscreants fled to Africa and the Middle East where the MB grew and eventually came to our shores and started front groups such as CAIR, the MSA (Muslim Student Association), MPAC, etc. And they have spawned other terrorist groups such as Hamas, jamaat ul Fuqra, etc. Too many to list.

And they made a pact with such miscreants as Al Qaeda, the Wahabbis, Saddam Hussein and Arafat when they were alive, in the late 1980s. They all worked together in their Jihad.

I wish you knew more history. It gets tiring to keep telling you about history.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Lost you how? I am not wrong sorry. you can look it up yourself.

Pagans and christmas is where I draw the line on talking. I can and do “look it up myself” and I wonder if you really realize what you are saying here JosephDavid.

You are a christian who takes issue with Christmas because it replaces a pagan day of celebration?

Why Joe?

 

[staffsgt7]

I agree with you in most of what you say. Terrorism is terrorism and has been used in the name of God or Allah and is deplorable.

I disagree with you that Islam is not reformable. I believe that Islam is going through a period similar to Christinity and that is by the sword instead of by the heart. Just like it was in the Crusades, and here in the Western Hempisphere and that was mainly by the Sword and not by love. I pray in time the majority of Muslims will stand up against their violent minority.

Unfortunately Islam’s reform is a wish that Westerners want most of all. Here are a few reasons why no one has started any reform. I am talking about anyone with power in Islam isn’t starting a reform.

• Doctrine is proclaimed to be eternal, universal and perfect-everything else is a ‘distortion’
• All of life is subject to Sharia Law
• No Pope, and no traditional clergy, but instead has schools of interpretation
• Look at Koran and traditions of Mohammed as normal
• They look at what they do to the world as improving it, not causing war and chaos.
• There is no Islam without Politics

Some of these points I have in a powerpoint presentation that I give to people. I will be giving one of these presentations this weekend. And will be doing it at least once a month on some part of Islam. Sometimes I will show a move.

 

[StrawberryJam]

In Scripture God was called by many names including the Aremaic name Ellah (Pronounced Allah).

Furthermore Christmas Day was originally a pagan holiday before the Pope of that time declared it a day to celebrate Christ instead of a pagan ritual. The Christmas tree was a pagan ritual that many of us use today.

I weep for the self rightous who call themselves Christian. I pray for them.

Joe, I think I found some catholic material here at CAF to help you that Jimmy Akin did you can find in the library. About Are Catholics Pagans, or something really close to it.

Maybe its Catholics are not Pagans, its really really close to that.

Who told you that this is problematic?