Life and Death: What last nights "decision" could mean, for my family

[CakeState]

I think the poster with the Cadillac plan is actually concerned about the additional out of pocket costs, as the employer is considering discountinuing the cadillac plan…the employer may be self-insured, so they would have to pay the tax, or they may be anticipating higher premiums, as the insurance companies having to pay higher taxes will likely pass the cost on that way.

No, the individual who holds the plan pays additional taxes. My husband’s employer will still offer it and we could still choose it, but when tax time comes in April we would have to pay thousands of dollars in extra taxes that we can’t afford. The only way to avoid the extra taxes would be to opt for the second or third tier health plan that the company offers. They cover less and would therefore not count as generous enough to be taxed.

 

[poker10]

I also don’t understand why someone with no income would have to pay the penalty.

I think the poster with the Cadillac plan is actually concerned about the additional out of pocket costs, as the employer is considering discountinuing the cadillac plan…the employer may be self-insured, so they would have to pay the tax, or they may be anticipating higher premiums, as the insurance companies having to pay higher taxes will likely pass the cost on that way.

I think the OP is confused about what Obamacare is. You are correct. Someone with no income doesn’t have to pay anything. It sounds like she’s living off her mother’s pension. Low income people will either be on Medicaid or given credits to help pay for insurance. And even then, someone making $30,000 a year would only have to pay $300, or 1%, and that would just be added to your taxes at the end of the year. For example, if you owe $300 to the IRS now, in 2014 you would owe $600. If you have $300 coming back now, you would owe nothing.

The most important thing is, if you have no income, you don’t have to buy insurance. In fact, you should be on Medicaid.

 

[Listener]

The person who posted sounds really upset. I, too, had a terrible time figuring out how it was that she would have to go to work and put her mother in a nursing home after Obamacare in January 2014.

I do extend my sympathy because I have a lot of personal experience caring for people who either were in a nursing home or who needed a nursing home.

My understanding of Obamacare, too, is that if you don’t make any money, you would be covered by Medicaid.

If you are acting as a caregiver for someone, you are at high risk for your own health. There are retirement homes out there who charge extra for assisted living on an “as needed” basis. Of course, that is very expensive. I believe that some of these homes will provide respite care for a short time if they have a room available. That is also expensive, but it might be affordable if you only did it for a week so you could get out and have a vacation yourself. There are many nice places out there. In fact, some people have to put their parents in nursing homes because they aren’t capable of lifting them in our out of their wheel chair.

If the person who posted this doesn’t have any medical insurance right now, she is putting herself at serious risk. You can easily go bankrupt from medical bills.

I also believe that a lot of employers just want to scare their employees and have an excuse to cancel their medical insurance. I am pretty sure that thing about the “Cadillac health insurance” does not become law until about 2018. There is plenty of time for Congress to fix things like that if they’re not going to work.

 

[Et_Cetera]

To the OP: I think that you are misunderstanding the mandate. If you are in need of assistance, try Healthcare.gov. There should be phone numbers that you can call to talk to someone personally. Without income, you should qualify for Medicaid. Also, God forbid, what if you were to fall ill without health insurance? You could be in a real nightmare then.

 

[MarieVeronica]

I am unclear on what is going on here. If you have no income, wouldn’t you qualify for Medicaid? People on Medicaid do not have to buy health insurance. In addition, anyone with an income under $9350 does not have to buy health insurance.

In terms of the Cadillac plans, the tax is on the employer, not on the individual. You will not see additional taxes on your return. Your employer could choose to increase premiums to make up for their additional taxes or change what plans are available. I personally think bar for the Cadillac tax is way too low and includes far too many plans.

No, I do not believe I qualify for Medicaid. I’m still healthy and able to work. But I DO NOT work, outside my home. I care for my 90 year old mother, who has Stage 5 Alzheimer’s. I have OPTED to care for her, myself… in order to keep her out of Nursing Homes. That is my “job”. I have always understood that to qualify for Medicaid… there must be a medical condition of some sort. Otherwise, wouldn’t half the country technically “qualify”? Please don’t tell me that half the country is going to be on Medicaid.

I wasn’t aware of any clause in the health care mandate… that stated people with income lower than $9350.00 are immune to the law. That is news to me… I will have to follow up on that. The only things I have heard… have sounded very threatening to my free choice of staying home to care for my mother.

 

[MarieVeronica]

MarieVeronica;9986571:

Wow. I would have thought I’d get ONE response, here at Catholic Answers.

You wrote this at 3:30 in the morning. Who is up then?

That aside, I am so sorry for what you are going through. Can you work at home? Pray to St. Pancratius and he will help you with this.

Well, I’ll tell you who is up at 3:30 a.m. in the morning. A caregiver, who must change the diapers of a loved one with Alzheimer’s. Or comfort their cry of fright. Or gently guide them back to bed, when they become confused and climb out. That is my reality. It is how I often spend my nights. People who have never cared for a person with dementia, wouldn’t know this though.

But just for the record, I did not write any of this at 3:30 a.m. lol. Catholic Answers time stamp must be “off”. God bless.

 

[gh4]

I’ve kept my mouth shut long enough. I don’t like to “ruffle feathers”, but I can no longer keep quiet.

Ok, so “the people” have given Mr. Obama another 4 years. Would anyone care to know what this means for my family? There has to be someone out there… who cares.

It means that after 5+ years of sacrificing my own life, to keep my precious mother OUT of the nursing home system… I may now have NO CHOICE but to place her in one of those “death houses”.

Why?

Because I have just over a year now, to return to work outside my home… so that I can PAY for this nightmare health care mandate… that is being forced down our throats.

Have any of you ever spent time in a nursing home for those with dementia? They’re like HELL on earth. And I guarantee… my mother won’t live long, if I am forced to do that. But unless I can find someone, who is willing to sit with her… day in and day out… here in my home… for about $10.00 an hour (guess what folks, we are NOT wealthy!)… then I will have NO CHOICE.

Please pray for us.

I worked in one of those “death houses” you talk about, as a floor nurse and then as a supervisor. I will tell you that our facility gave EXCELLENT patient care. Yes, sometimes accidents happen. And yes, the state told us that the patients have the “right” to fall etc. and so forth. But we had MANY patients that lived 5 or 10 years in our facility. It was NOT “HELL ON EARTH.”
I cannot tell you how many times I stayed after my shift on my own time to hold the hand of a patient that was dying, so that they would not die alone. I cannot tell you how many times many of my fellow nurses did the same thing. The times we brought in gifts for a patient who had no family to do that. Or the times we just sat and talked with them, or sang with them, or a million other things.
I promise you that it was not a death house. It was a beautiful facility and we took all patients, not just medicare or insurance or anything else, we took them all. And I honestly loved many of them.

I took care of my parents for about 7 years. Both of them had Alzheimer’s disease. I quit my job at the Alzheimer’s facility to care for them.

I finally had to stop caring for my parents, I was exhausted from getting up every 2 hours and changing my Mom’s brief, and turning her, or moving her from one chair to the bed and then after changing her to a different chair. Believe me, she had the bottom of a new born, not a spot on that bottom!
We didn’t have much money left, and they went through all their money very quickly in the nursing home.

My dad only lived about 3 weeks in the nursing home, but he was calm and enjoyed those three weeks. He didn’t have a clue who he was or who I was or what planet he was on, but he liked it there.

My Mom lived 5 years. Yes, she fell out of bed a couple of times, and yes, I fought with them on occasion. But I could NOT continue the way I was. I did this all by myself. I am a widow and had no help. I got 2 days off during that almost 7 years.

The facility where I placed them was not a death trap, nor was it quite the quality of the facility I worked in, but it worked very well for them.

I’m sorry that you will have to give up caring for your Mother. But tour the nursing homes, there are some wonderful ones out there, and if your mother is about out of money, there is state help for them. No patient should ever be treated differently because of how their bill is paid.

I realize you are upset, I understand, totally. I wish I could have continued caring for my parents, but it was out of the question, my health counted too.

Best of luck, and please, do take a look at some of the facilities near you. You might be surprised.

 

[Et_Cetera]

The only things I have heard… have sounded very threatening to my free choice of staying home to care for my mother.

I think that it’s definitely noble for you to be taking care of your mother, but with all due respect, a huge problem here is that you’re going off of things that you have heard. You’re upsetting yourself and jumping the gun. Breathe deeply, compose yourself, and check out Healthcare.gov. You should be able to talk to someone who can answer your questions correctly and clearly. Also, health insurance is something that you really should look into because you could be in a real bind without it.

Anyway, you might be exempt from the tax under these grounds:

Income restraints:
Tax penalty exemptions will be granted to people for whom the lowest-cost plan option exceeds 8 percent of income and for those with incomes below the tax filing threshold, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation.

Just remember, the President is not doing this to hurt people like you. He wants to find a solution for the 45 million uninsured Americans. I think that if you approach this with an open mind and work with someone, you might be able to find an affordable government health insurance plan that will help you to sleep more easily and avoid a potential financial disaster.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I don’t understand any of it myself.

But I do know this: I have a good job with good health care insurance. Several years ago I had to have a relatively minor surgery, and it nearly bankrupted me. Even “good” insurance has deductibles, co-pays, and doesn’t cover everything. It literally took me years to pay it off–even with insurance.

Due to the diagnosis at that surgery, I now have a pre-existing condition that will require two MAJOR (and far more expensive) surgeries within the next few years, and months of physical therapy. There is no way I can afford it without some sort of healthcare reform. I don’t know how much Obama’s plan will help me, but I’m eager to find out.

Otherwise, I’ll just be crippled and in pain for the rest of my life.

Jala

Well, I can tell you for certain that it won’t help over time. The insurance companies are being forced to cover pre-existing conditions, which means they will lose money. If they lose money over time, they will go out of business. And then, we will have completely socialized medicine, provided by the government. Just like Europe. Some people will be happy about that. Doctors will make less money and be told what their care plan for each patient will be, and what treatments they can and cannot offer. The government - the Health and Human Services Dept. specifically - will be 100% in control of your health and your very life. Does that sound like a good idea? There are more surprises in store for all of us. Good luck.

“Free health care” - you get what you pay for. Anyway, it’s not even free and it still won’t be half of what we have enjoyed to this point.

 

[NSFrame]

Unfortunately, there is no easy answer. We have all of these incredible advances in medicine - but these are incredibly costly. If you are rich enough or poor enough, you don’t have to pay much, if anything, to have access to these treatments. Either private employers or the government pays the bills. Those without access to either of these options must purchase private insurance, which, as it stands, is a complete rip-off. The insurance companies are making a killing off of those plans. In fact in all plans, the insurance companies make a killing by finding ways to deny coverage, many of them extremely suspect. Or the other option is to not have coverage at all, pray for the best, then get stuck with an astronomical ER bill if something happens (note that half of bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills).

So the ethical issues are:

1. People on public assistance have better health benefits than working Americans and even military families.
2. Insurance companies are making huge profits by denying benefits and claims - and therefore are impacting the personal health, and possibly life and death, of individuals in order to make money.
3. If we stop consuming high-cost health care at the current rate, or begin reimbursing it at a lower rate (likely under any socialized healthcare system), will the research that is leading to the advances in medicine we are lucky enough to experience drastically slow?
4. If the government is paying for our health care, can they then impose limits on our personal freedom in order to save costs (ex. helmet laws, smoking bans)?

Note that Obamacare does not currently pay for healthcare except under Medicare and Medicaid, so at the moment #4 is not an issue. For now, anyway.

 

[Jala]

The insurance companies are being forced to cover pre-existing conditions, which means they will lose money. If they lose money over time, they will go out of business.

I am employed by a healthcare company. Trust me, they could “lose money” to the tune of 99% and still be far wealthier than you or I. It is truly mind-boggling how much money is in this business.

What do you suggest people who have pre-existing conditions do, if insurance won’t cover their treatments? As I stated in my previous post, I will be a cripple for the rest of my life without these surgeries. At least, praise Jah, it is only a “quality of life” issue and not life-threatening, but what about people who will die otherwise?

“Free health care” - you get what you pay for. Anyway, it’s not even free and it still won’t be half of what we have enjoyed to this point.

I have numerous Canadian friends (of varying ages) who are thrilled to pieces with their healthcare. One of the alleged “downsides” that other US citizens have voiced is “you have to wait months for surgery.” I had to wait 4 months for mine here in the US (which was “as soon as possible”), so I don’t see any difference there…

Jala

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think that you’re making a lot of assumptions about this law, especially about things that won’t take effect for years. If you are really this concerned please don’t take advice from people on the internet, speak to an attorney who specializes in insurance and medical law. They will help guide you through everything you need to know and if this really will cause a problem for you they can help you solve it.

As for a nursing home, you’re right, you don’t want to put her there. I worked in when I was in high school and abuse was rampant, especially abuse of people with Alzheimer’s because they couldn’t report it. Of course when families came to visit or the state was inspecting things got better, but when they were gone residents were mocked, hit, called names, lifted inappropriately so they ended up with broken ribs, shoulders, and hips and paperwork was falsified to cover up how that happened. And if someone was difficult to feed, like a patient with Alzheimer’s a lot of times they just weren’t fed. I called the corporate office and the state so many times to report what was happening, Nothing was done until I got a voice recorder and recorded a meeting with my boss where she told me that if I didn’t stop making waves about the way they do things I would be fired, and that when the state isn’t there she’s in charge and if she tells me to stop feeding someone or lift them on my own I have to do it.

I quit to go to college 3 weeks later, but by the time I left state was all over the facility and they lost a lot of funding, the administrators lost their jobs, and they still cannot certify their own CNAs.

Everyone I’ve ever talked to that has worked in a nursing home has had the same experiences I have, and most of them say that private nursing homes are even worse because they have less oversight and the employees make a lot less.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I’ve kept my mouth shut long enough. I don’t like to “ruffle feathers”, but I can no longer keep quiet.

Ok, so “the people” have given Mr. Obama another 4 years. Would anyone care to know what this means for my family? There has to be someone out there… who cares.

It means that after 5+ years of sacrificing my own life, to keep my precious mother OUT of the nursing home system… I may now have NO CHOICE but to place her in one of those “death houses”.

Why?

Because I have just over a year now, to return to work outside my home… so that I can PAY for this nightmare health care mandate… that is being forced down our throats.

Have any of you ever spent time in a nursing home for those with dementia? They’re like HELL on earth. And I guarantee… my mother won’t live long, if I am forced to do that. But unless I can find someone, who is willing to sit with her… day in and day out… here in my home… for about $10.00 an hour (guess what folks, we are NOT wealthy!)… then I will have NO CHOICE.

Please pray for us.

I will pray for you and your family and I’ll do what I can to give this thread some attention.

 

[BillP]

No, I do not believe I qualify for Medicaid. I’m still healthy and able to work. But I DO NOT work, outside my home. I care for my 90 year old mother, who has Stage 5 Alzheimer’s. I have OPTED to care for her, myself… in order to keep her out of Nursing Homes. That is my “job”. I have always understood that to qualify for Medicaid… there must be a medical condition of some sort. Otherwise, wouldn’t half the country technically “qualify”? Please don’t tell me that half the country is going to be on Medicaid.

I wasn’t aware of any clause in the health care mandate… that stated people with income lower than $9350.00 are immune to the law. That is news to me… I will have to follow up on that. The only things I have heard… have sounded very threatening to my free choice of staying home to care for my mother.

If you contact me off-line I will personally pay the $95 penalty you incur for being uninsured in 2014. That will give you another year to get things sorted out.

 

[Luvz2travel]

Well I didn’t vote for him either time so I put my hands up and don’t worry about what I can’t control. I had to buy my own insurance because the coverage work offered was beyond my budget. I get the same coverage now but for half. I know this will change though how I’m not sure. I’m only sure that it will cost me more for less coverage. I’m already prepared to go with the cheapist crappiest insurance I can find just so I don’t get TAXED for not having coverage. Welcome to the new world of socialism.

 

[DarkLight]

It’s unwise to judge too much on individual stories like this.

For me…Obamacare means being able to stay in school, rather than quitting to hopefully find a full-time job that will provide full health insurance, plus the extra money to pay for conditions that aren’t covered. It means not having to plan my career to avoid part-time work in a field where that’s where the entry level positions are, because I might actually be able to afford private insurance despite a complex of issues. For my family, it means not having that extra fear when Dad lost his job, that my mother would become sicker because the cheap unemployment insurance didn’t cover procedures for a rare condition.

 

[MarieVeronica]

I think that you’re making a lot of assumptions about this law, especially about things that won’t take effect for years.

Thank you for your response. But I don’t know what you mean… “things that won’t take effect for years”.

We have only 14 months… until this “law” kicks in. That is… January 2014.

Where my mother’s well being and safety are concerned… I’m not “assuming” anything. I’m upset, and rightly so. This is a nightmare for me… or anyone else in my shoes.

Please keep us in your prayers. Because I assure you, there will be many people like my mother and myself, whose particular circumstances were not anticipated by this administration.

I truly believe that they have bitten off MUCH more than they can chew with this. In the words of Nancy Pelosi “We’ll have to pass it (the law) to see what’s IN it”. Those words may come back to bite them in the rear.

 

[NSFrame]

The law is already in effect. Its provisions phase in at different times, some in 2010, some this year, some not till 2018. For example, many plans already have to cover dependents up to age 26.

 

[Cat]

Just my 2cents (I work in a hospital lab)–I’m pretty certain that you don’t need a medical condition to be covered by Medicaid. Medicaid is the government health care for younger people who aren’t old enough yet for Medicare.

One problem is that not all doctors and not all hospitals will take Medicaid patients because of the notoriously low or even non-existent reimbursement.

But ask someone who is an expert, not me.

 

[Lorelei12]

Edwin, I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. I thought that I had been… very clear. Let me explain, further.

The healthcare “mandate” will force me to do this, because I’m currently at home… caring for my mother. I am not working outside my home, and therefore… I do not have healthcare. I made the decision, 5 years ago… to leave my outside job, because my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s… and I was determined that she would NOT suffer the horrors of a nursing home.

I can not purchase health care for myself, with HER pension money (oh yes, the “pension plan” WOULD come after me for misappropriation of funds. It is Mom’s money, and we have NO “caregiver contract” set up. I am only permitted to buy food and pay utilities with it). Therefore, even though she needs full time, round the clock care… I will have to return to work, outside my home… to PAY for my own health care. Otherwise, I could suffer the IRS penalty… for not doing so.

The “mandate” leaves me with this dilemma… either find someone that I can trust, to care for my precious mother while I go out to work. OR… place my mother in a nursing home (i.e., death house - and YES, some of them… truly are “death houses”. I have a friend who worked for years in the system… and finally had to leave, being sick to her stomach… when there was an investigation into a murder cover up… in her facility. Or as SOME of them like to call it… a “mercy killing”. I have been committed to not allowing my mother to suffer such a fate… as often, the precious elderly (especially those with dementia) DO.

I have lost the FREEDOM to stay at home… and care for my mother, till her natural death. And this is a direct result of the out of control freight train (a.k.a. Obamacare) that is now rushing at us… full speed.

I hope that you understand our plight now. I know that we are not alone. God have mercy on us all.

And thank you, to all who suggested that there are “nice” nursing homes out there. But we’ve pretty much run the gamut in our area (mother has been in and out of them, on a rehab basis). The vast majority of them here… are absolutely unacceptable. Esp the ones set up for dementia patients.

I am not sure if someone has mentioned this or not yet, but the penalty in 2014 is $95 for a single adult or $285 per family. It would increase a few hundred dollars in 2015, and then again in 2016. I am not in favor of many parts of Obamacare, but I do think you may be misinformed about what it will actually mean for you in terms of having to return to work. I am sure that you could find a way to make a couple hundred dollars per year while still caring for your mother. It doesn’t sound that impossible or dramatic to me.

It is a very demanding and noble thing you are doing, caring for your mother. And I believe that caregivers should be reimbursed in some way for keeping their loved ones out of the nursing home (I know they are in some states, but not most). I do understand your concern about keeping her home with you, but please know how lucky you are to have been able to stay home to care for her thus far. That you are able to afford to do this (which is not without many sacrifices, I am sure) is a blessing for your mother- but it is not a right. Many people have to work and have been forced to place their loved ones in nursing homes, and if you can afford to care for her you are fortunate. I hope that you are able to continue to do this, and if you at some point do have to work outside the home I don’t think it is going to be because of this health care mandate.