Life as a Catholic single. A rant. (PG-13)

[Sarcelle]

A lot of acquaintances have told me that they have better luck with dating secular people than fellow Christians.

I would caution against marrying a secular individual especially if you are a devout Catholic. Just came back from the artificial contraception thread. It is hard enough to observe Church teachings against artificial contraception even with your spouse onboard but even harder when your spouse isn’t.

Let’s be honest about it. It’s hard enough to be faithful to Church teachings on contraception even under ideal circumstances. Imagine how much worst it would be under real life circumstances, such as having special needs children. My brother and I were diagnosed with Aspergers and we were difficult children to raise. I wonder if that was what drove my mother to having surgery to prevent more children.

 

[Xantippe]

In real life, I have the opportunity to show my personality in a way that I can’t online. Also I find that I do better getting dates with secular women than with Catholic women. On the other hand, living life as a Catholic means most of those dates with secular women don’t get anywhere. But at least I got to dance with them.

Practicing Catholic women may be more marriage minded and more cautious about dealing with strange men, both of which may make them less likely to go out with you.

I was Evangelical through nearly my entire single years and I never went out with anybody I didn’t know through friends or school or volunteering. It would never have occurred to me to talk to a strange man that was trying to get my attention, let alone go somewhere with him. On the other hand, I didn’t get asked out a lot but I think I literally never said no to an actual date.

So, a lot of the descriptions guys give of just chatting up total strangers in public kind of blow my mind. It doesn’t surprise me that that’s a hard way to go–it surprises me that anybody ever has any success with it.

One very important thing for men to remember is that safety is paramount for a normal, prudent woman when she’s talking to a guy she doesn’t know well. Somewhere in the back of her mind, she’s thinking, how likely is this person to rape and/or murder me? Because of that, it’s important when planning a date, to make sure that you don’t accidentally make her feel unsafe. I believe Zzyzx Road has mentioned taking women hiking as a first date. I’m actually surprised that that one works for him, as a lot of women would be squicked out by that one, unless they knew you or were very athletic. Going off in the woods with a strange man just sounds dumb to me. For the first couple dates, planning something in public where you’ll be around other people will be less worrisome to a cautious woman.

 

[iwillrisenow]

Ideal for seeking salvation seems more right than “Needed” for salvation.

Hmmm… I am 31 and only have one girlfriend in my life and it only lasted 4 months. Some people are single for a few months (even years) and they think they know the pain of “Being alone” That is if her situation is like you say it is, I do not know.

I would hesitate to use words such as “ideal” or “easier”…and I think that has a lot to do with how we view marriage and married people in many cultures…so let me try and explain further what I meant by “needed.”

I essentially mean that if one is called to marriage (as in, there is a potential spouse right in front of you who wants to enter into the vocation with you and has explicitly stated so), the **primary **reason for this is because God is presenting it to you as a means of salvation that you need to become the fullest version of yourself-- not because you are suddenly actualized, full, and complete **before **you enter the vocation. Like when they say marriage is a perfecting institution, that means it’s more like a spiritual boot camp than winning every prize, plus a cruise and a “faaaaaaabulous new car!” on a tv game show. That’s not to say there isn’t joy in finding this vocation-- there certainly is-- but the important part is that having that specific invitation in front of you makes all the difference. In other words, those of us who are single can trust that God is leading us to salvation no matter how we live our lives on this earth…and for those of us who are invited specifically to marriage, the primary reason for that is salvation. And it’s important to note that if that specific invitation never comes, that doesn’t mean anything except the married vocation is not required for you to become the best that God intended for you on this earth. God makes no mistakes and, like GPS, is quite adept at “recalculating.” So basically, we all have everything we need, even though it rarely feels like it for those of us who believe we are called to marriage living the single life.

A similar point comes up when we talk about being Catholic and having a fuller version of the Truth…those of us who are Catholic were called to that at some point in our lives, and if we rejected that call, God would certainly “recalculate” but our path to salvation would be much more difficult. Those who are never called into the Truth of the faith are still cared for and lead by God, perhaps even more than those who are, but because they were never called specifically to the Faith, it is much more likely that they will find what they need for salvation outside of it.

Another way of saying this-- and married folks, don’t jump me-- is that being called to marriage is essentially God saying: “if you want a fighting chance, please think *seriously *about getting in this vocation.” Same way those of us who are called to the Faith know that God is saying, “please *seriously consider *this bootcamp.”

 

[Xantippe]

I would hesitate to use words such as “ideal” or “easier”…and I think that has a lot to do with how we view marriage and married people in many cultures…so let me try and explain further what I meant by “needed.”

I essentially mean that if one is called to marriage (as in, there is a potential spouse right in front of you who wants to enter into the vocation with you and has explicitly stated so), the **primary **reason for this is because God is presenting it to you as a means of salvation that you need to become the fullest version of yourself-- not because you are suddenly actualized, full, and complete **before **you enter the vocation. Like when they say marriage is a perfecting institution, that means it’s more like a spiritual boot camp than winning every prize, plus a cruise and a “faaaaaaabulous new car!” on a tv game show. That’s not to say there isn’t joy in finding this vocation-- there certainly is-- but the important part is that having that specific invitation in front of you makes all the difference. In other words, those of us who are single can trust that God is leading us to salvation no matter how we live our lives on this earth…and for those of us who are invited specifically to marriage, the primary reason for that is salvation. And it’s important to note that if that specific invitation never comes, that doesn’t mean anything except the married vocation is not required for you to become the best that God intended for you on this earth. God makes no mistakes and, like GPS, is quite adept at “recalculating.” So basically, we all have everything we need, even though it rarely feels like it for those of us who believe we are called to marriage living the single life.

A similar point comes up when we talk about being Catholic and having a fuller version of the Truth…those of us who are Catholic were called to that at some point in our lives, and if we rejected that call, God would certainly “recalculate” but our path to salvation would be much more difficult. Those who are never called into the Truth of the faith are still cared for and lead by God, perhaps even more than those who are, but because they were never called specifically to the Faith, it is much more likely that they will find what they need for salvation outside of it.

Another way of saying this-- and married folks, don’t jump me-- is that being called to marriage is essentially God saying: “if you want a fighting chance, please think *seriously *about getting in this vocation.” Same way those of us who are called to the Faith know that God is saying, “please *seriously consider *this bootcamp.”

I have to point out here that seminary is required for the priesthood. Likewise, people in religious life go through a long proving period (years and years) before they can be full-fledged religious.

Even with the bootcamp example, if a person is morbidly obese and can’t walk up a single flight of stairs without getting winded, bootcamp is not going to fix them. You should go into bootcamp with a certain basic level of fitness.

In the same way, it may be prudent to achieve a certain minimum before getting married, in order to ensure that your marriage has the best possible chance of success.

I don’t think you have to have achieved everything, but there should be a good trajectory and a road map for improvement. If a single person has substantial debt, she should be trying to pay it off, living on a budget every single month, and planning for the future. If a single person has problems with chastity, he should be working hard with a confessor to get under control–he shouldn’t expect that marriage will render self-control unnecessary.

I used the analogy upthread that working on your relationship while married and with small children underfoot is like trying to repair your car while driving 75 miles an hour on the freeway. Obviously, there are some issues that you don’t even know that you have–so the repairs have to be done at 75 miles an hour on the freeway–but there are a lot of things that it should be possible to clear up before getting married. There are many predictable areas for conflict.

 

[Sarcelle]

I have to point out here that seminary is required for the priesthood. Likewise, people in religious life go through a long proving period (years and years) before they can be full-fledged religious.

Even with the bootcamp example, if a person is morbidly obese and can’t walk up a single flight of stairs without getting winded, bootcamp is not going to fix them. You should go into bootcamp with a certain basic level of fitness.

In the same way, it may be prudent to achieve a certain minimum before getting married, in order to ensure that your marriage has the best possible chance of success.

I don’t think you have to have achieved everything, but there should be a good trajectory and a road map for improvement. If a single person has substantial debt, she should be trying to pay it off, living on a budget every single month, and planning for the future. If a single person has problems with chastity, he should be working hard with a confessor to get under control–he shouldn’t expect that marriage will render self-control unnecessary.

I used the analogy upthread that working on your relationship while married and with small children underfoot is like trying to repair your car while driving 75 miles an hour on the freeway. Obviously, there are some issues that you don’t even know that you have–so the repairs have to be done at 75 miles an hour on the freeway–but there are a lot of things that it should be possible to clear up before getting married. There are many predictable areas for conflict.

All good points.

I do not understand the thinking that marriage fixes everything. In the Evangelical world, there seems to be the thinking that if only people got married sooner we would not be having the problems we would be facing now.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

All good points.

I do not understand the thinking that marriage fixes everything. In the Evangelical world, there seems to be the thinking that if only people got married sooner we would not be having the problems we would be facing now.

Well, evangelicals have higher divorce rates than both Catholics and atheists, so don’t work too hard to understand their thinking.

 

[Xantippe]

Well, evangelicals have higher divorce rates than both Catholics and atheists, so don’t work too hard to understand their thinking.

Well, there is a cultural belief in the Evangelical world that premarital sex is way worse than divorce. Plus, divorce and remarriage is not a biggie. And they’re just starting to think about marriage prep.

That all explains a lot of the difference.

(When my husband and I were engaged, the Evangelical set of parents was very eager to get us married QUICK while the Catholic set wanted to take things slow.)

 

[GEddie]

I would hesitate to use words such as “ideal” or “easier”…and I think that has a lot to do with how we view marriage and married people in many cultures…so let me try and explain further what I meant by “needed.”

I essentially mean that if one is called to marriage (as in, there is a potential spouse right in front of you who wants to enter into the vocation with you and has explicitly stated so), the **primary **reason for this is because God is presenting it to you as a means of salvation that you need to become the fullest version of yourself-- not because you are suddenly actualized, full, and complete **before **you enter the vocation. Like when they say marriage is a perfecting institution, that means it’s more like a spiritual boot camp than winning every prize, plus a cruise and a “faaaaaaabulous new car!” on a tv game show. That’s not to say there isn’t joy in finding this vocation-- there certainly is-- but the important part is that having that specific invitation in front of you makes all the difference. In other words, those of us who are single can trust that God is leading us to salvation no matter how we live our lives on this earth…and for those of us who are invited specifically to marriage, the primary reason for that is salvation. And it’s important to note that if that specific invitation never comes, that doesn’t mean anything except the married vocation is not required for you to become the best that God intended for you on this earth. God makes no mistakes and, like GPS, is quite adept at “recalculating.” So basically, we all have everything we need, even though it rarely feels like it for those of us who believe we are called to marriage living the single life.

A similar point comes up when we talk about being Catholic and having a fuller version of the Truth…those of us who are Catholic were called to that at some point in our lives, and if we rejected that call, God would certainly “recalculate” but our path to salvation would be much more difficult. Those who are never called into the Truth of the faith are still cared for and lead by God, perhaps even more than those who are, but because they were never called specifically to the Faith, it is much more likely that they will find what they need for salvation outside of it.

Another way of saying this-- and married folks, don’t jump me-- is that being called to marriage is essentially God saying: “if you want a fighting chance, please think *seriously *about getting in this vocation.” Same way those of us who are called to the Faith know that God is saying, “please *seriously consider *this bootcamp.”

This is a much wiser treatment of the marriage vocation than the one I’ve seen again and again, namely “everybody is called to marriage because everybody has a sexuality.”

If that were true, somewhere God would have promised everybody a spouse; He did not.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Well, there is a cultural belief in the Evangelical world that premarital sex is way worse than divorce. Plus, divorce and remarriage is not a biggie. And they’re just starting to think about marriage prep.

That all explains a lot of the difference.

That’s definitely a big part of it. Although, in my super small town where everyone was related, divorce was a very big deal, though not when someone like the pastor did it - and definitely not in comparison to the horror premarital sex.

And that’s really backwards. Barring pregnancy, you can come back 100% from having premarital sex. But divorce is really devastating for everyone it touches, especially once there are children involved.

 

[GEddie]

That’s definitely a big part of it. Although, in my super small town where everyone was related, divorce was a very big deal, though not when someone like the pastor did it - and definitely not in comparison to the horror premarital sex.

And that’s really backwards. Barring pregnancy, you can come back 100% from having premarital sex. But divorce is really devastating for everyone it touches, especially once there are children involved.

OTOH, their horror of non-marital sex (1) is a necessary reaction to the secular world’s celebration of it. Conversely, no-one celebrates divorce; it is seen as s sad necessity.

ICXC NIKA.

(1).

“Premarital sex is when an engaged couple jump the gun; what is happening now is not premarital sex, it is two people having sex with no intention ever of marriage.”

----Unknown

 

[Xantippe]

That’s definitely a big part of it. Although, in my super small town where everyone was related, divorce was a very big deal, though not when someone like the pastor did it - and definitely not in comparison to the horror premarital sex.

And that’s really backwards. Barring pregnancy, you can come back 100% from having premarital sex. But divorce is really devastating for everyone it touches, especially once there are children involved.

As I recall, in the mainstream Evangelical world, divorce is regarded as the big offense–the remarriage barely adds anything. It’s not like with Catholics, where remarriage is viewed as adulterous.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

As I recall, in the mainstream Evangelical world, divorce is regarded as the big offense–the remarriage barely adds anything. It’s not like with Catholics, where remarriage is viewed as adulterous.

I never met anyone in my community who believed that remarriage was the problem. Which I always found interesting, because if divorce is wrong, and you’ve repented, but you’re still living a happily divorced life and moving on to marry someone else… I never thought of it as adultery, but I didn’t see it as indicative of repenting of divorce.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

OTOH, their horror of non-marital sex (1) is a necessary reaction to the secular world’s celebration of it. Conversely, no-one celebrates divorce; it is seen as s sad necessity.

And that’s fine. But if you’re encouraging your flock or your own children to get married too young and/or to the wrong person to avoid premarital sex because falling to that is way worse than divorce, your priorities are screwed up. But that’s the attitude in lots of more traditional Evangelical circles, such as the one I grew up in.

 

[Xantippe]

OTOH, their horror of non-marital sex (1) is a necessary reaction to the secular world’s celebration of it. Conversely, no-one celebrates divorce; it is seen as s sad necessity.

It may be different now, but there has been a lot of rather callous indifference to the question of whether or not a particular couple is likely to be able to remain happily married to each other.

For instance (this is a funny, but not ha ha funny story), because of some issues with wedding planning, my Evangelical mom thought that my fiance might be trifling with me, so she wanted us to get married RIGHT NOW.

It apparently never crossed her mind that maybe it wasn’t a great idea for me to marry somebody that didn’t have my welfare as his dearest object.

Things may have changed, but that was very typical of the time.

 

[iwillrisenow]

I suppose it’s all relative. I wouldn’t put it beyond God’s boot camp to get even that morbidly obese person in shape. The trouble comes when we start to think about ourselves as the arbiter of others’ relationship decisions
and focus too much on the logs in others’ eyes while downplaying our own because we “made the cut” so to speak.

Some seminaries have stricter requirements than others. Some hold different values. Every human being is a balance of sin and virtue. No one who is trying is ever a lost cause.

 

[Xantippe]

I suppose it’s all relative. I wouldn’t put it beyond God’s boot camp to get even that morbidly obese person in shape.

Hopefully they’ve made a little bit of an effort to get in shape before starting the boot camp, though?

I feel like trajectory is very important.

A single person with spending problems who gets married is going to be a married person with spending problems.

A single person with a drinking habit that gets married is going to be a married person with a drinking habit.

A single person with a porn habit that gets married is going to be a married person with a porn habit.

A single person with a temper that gets married is going to be a married person with a temper.

Etc.

And, in fact, in pretty much all of these cases, the demands and pressures of family life are quite likely to make each problem worse, not better.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Hopefully they’ve made a little bit of an effort to get in shape before starting the boot camp, though?

I feel like trajectory is very important.

A single person with spending problems who gets married is going to be a married person with spending problems.

A single person with a drinking habit that gets married is going to be a married person with a drinking habit.

A single person with a porn habit that gets married is going to be a married person with a porn habit.

A single person with a temper that gets married is going to be a married person with a temper.

Etc.

And, in fact, in pretty much all of these cases, the demands and pressures of family life are quite likely to make each problem worse, not better.

Unfortunately, the rush of a new relationship and a desire to put your best foot forward can often mask these issues, or even make you think that your new relationship helped you “get over them”. But they always come back when the routine of life does. That’s why it’s important to be a healthy person on a positive trajectory before looking to get married. You don’t have to have everything 100% together, but you should be free from any addictions and have any health problems reasonably managed while making good decisions for your future.

 

[PennyinCanada]

I would like to address your anger toward God.
I have talked to old priests (some have passed away at this point) who have said that they remember a time when 100 to 120 kids were attending catechism. Now there are 2 or 3, and the parishes, what’s left of them, are mostly grey haired folks. There was a time when the Catholic parish was a booming place. Maybe 3 weddings on a given Saturday. Not any more. I know many friends I grew up with that grew up in the Church and they left when they were teenagers. They grew up, got married outside the Church, had their families outside the Church. Do you think God is happy? Of course not. But in giving us free will, many just walked out never to come back. They made other choices. So it likely is with the ladies he may have had in line to be your life partner. Bitterness and resentment toward God I think is misdirected. He’s your greatest help, the one cheering for you every day. The one that aches for you when he sees you suffering.

Now what can you do? Have you prayed for your future wife daily? Done sacrifices to bring her back to the Church? Not that you have to answer to me, but I write this for yourself and any one else who may be reading this thread.

Recognize that bitterness regarding your state in life is something to tackle. If you were married, likely there would be other crosses since it seems no one goes for long in this life without one. When I see what some people are carrying, it makes me shiver.

May God strengthen you, bless you, guide you today.

 

[Bataar]

This is a hard area for me too. I’m a 37 year old male with Aspergers which makes the possibility of finding and maintaining a relationship nearly impossible. I used to pray about it when I was younger but as nothing changed, I grudgingly accepted God wanted me to be lonely and stopped as it must be his will for some reason. At my age, I really don’t have any other friends as my older friends have long since gotten married, started families and have pretty much moved on. Since I have a hard time of coming with activities and what not to do by myself, I pretty much just stay home all the time (when I’m not at work anyway) so that makes it even harder to meet anyone. As things stand now, about the only way I can think of for me to meet anyone is if a woman approaches me at the grocery store.

 

[pianistclare]

This is a hard area for me too. I’m a 37 year old male with Aspergers which makes the possibility of finding and maintaining a relationship nearly impossible. I used to pray about it when I was younger but as nothing changed, I grudgingly accepted God wanted me to be lonely and stopped as it must be his will for some reason. At my age, I really don’t have any other friends as my older friends have long since gotten married, started families and have pretty much moved on. Since I have a hard time of coming with activities and what not to do by myself, I pretty much just stay home all the time (when I’m not at work anyway) so that makes it even harder to meet anyone. As things stand now, about the only way I can think of for me to meet anyone is if a woman approaches me at the grocery store.

Hang out in the frozen food section. I’m not kidding.

God bless you.