Life as a Catholic single. A rant. (PG-13)

[Kay_Cee]

I’m a SAHM–I totally believe SAHMs contribute.

We even send kids to private school and like it.

However, I don’t think you understand how out-of-reach the lifestyle you describe is for the majority of young Americans today.

The lifestyle I describe is making do with used items and doing without what you don’t have the money for.

 

[Sarcelle]

The lifestyle I describe is making do with used items and doing without what you don’t have the money for.

You are blessed. You were able to stay home with your children. What Xantippe is trying to say is that the combination of student debt and living in a high cost of living can be prohibitively expensive for young couples. Not all couples are similarly blessed like you.

I grew up in Hawaii. I’ve seen firsthand the high cost of living. Husbands and wives who have to work two or three jobs just to afford a roof over their heads. My own parents did that. A lot of people rely on extended family for childcare. I have memories of my grandparents babysitting me along with my cousins. They put us to work on their mom and pop bakery/grocery store. My parents scrimped and saved but it still was not enough. My mom is the master of budgeting and scrimping. So no, not all families with working moms are frittering away their money on luxury items and McMansions.

Single family homes cost 3/4 of a million. No, these are not luxury McMansions but basic starter homes. Apartments costs a bit less about half a million. Add to that high cost of groceries. A gallon of milk costs $8.00 and that is if they are on sale. Gas is about $5.00 per gallon. It may have gone down a bit.

Now these families can just move to cheaper states but extended family is here and there are also more job opportunities. Some have moved but for most their heart is with their home. That is where their ohana (extended family) is. I miss Hawaii fiercely but I am where the jobs are.

 

[Xantippe]

The lifestyle I describe is making do with used items and doing without what you don’t have the money for.

Did you not see what I wrote about how small consumer goods are not the killer that you think they are?

Small manufactured items and clothes are cheaper than they have ever been. Also, it has never been easier to get stuff inexpensively via Craigslist, etc. I gave you a link that said that families today spend only 1/3 as much on clothing (as a percentage of income) as families in 1950 did, and 1/5 as much on clothing (as a percentage of income) as families around 1900 did.

The lifestyle you describe is very expensive in today’s environment, especially in a higher-cost-of-living area.

Today, the expensive stuff is housing and whatever involves a lot of US labor (for instance healthcare and education). And it isn’t primarily the size of housing that makes it expensive–it’s the location, and specifically the region. You would not believe how many lackluster $400-500k houses in so-so neighborhoods I looked at back when I was househunting in suburban MD, Northern VA and so-so Washington DC neighborhoods.

I look at my budget, and the stuff I can get used is a tiny, tiny percentage of the budget.

 

[Sarcelle]

Did you not see what I wrote about how small consumer goods are not the killer that you think they are?

Small manufactured items and clothes are cheaper than they have ever been. Also, it has never been easier to get stuff inexpensively via Craigslist, etc. I gave you a link that said that families today spend only 1/3 as much on clothing (as a percentage of income) as families in 1950 did, and 1/5 as much on clothing (as a percentage of income) as families around 1900 did.

The lifestyle you describe is very expensive in today’s environment, especially in a higher-cost-of-living area.

Today, the expensive stuff is housing and whatever involves a lot of US labor (for instance healthcare and education). And it isn’t primarily the size of housing that makes it expensive–it’s the location, and specifically the region. You would not believe how many lackluster $400-500k houses in so-so neighborhoods I looked at back when I was househunting in suburban MD, Northern VA and so-so Washington DC neighborhoods.

I look at my budget, and the stuff I can get used is a tiny, tiny percentage of the budget.

I wonder if the people who live in states with a lower cost of living know how much more expensive other states can be. One can scrimp and save but sometimes that is not enough. I know most people living in such places as Seattle who are what you call permanent renters. The cost of buying a house there is prohibitively expensive.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I wonder if the people who live in states with a lower cost of living know how much more expensive other states can be.

Can’t you move? If you’ve got nothing going for you where you live now I don’t see that you have anything to lose by moving to a less expensive area. It has got to be easier to find a safe area and good school when you’re willing to consider the entire US.

 

[Xantippe]

For reference, here are some stats on how young American parents are doing:

1 in 5 US children is on food stamps

census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-16.html

Medicaid pays for 48% of all births in the US.

whijournal.com/article/S1049-3867(13)00055-8/fulltext

Half of US children are eligible for subsidized lunches.

washingtonpost.com/local/education/majority-of-us-public-school-students-are-in-poverty/2015/01/15/df7171d0-9ce9-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html

That’s the environment that we’re dealing with.

 

[Xantippe]

I wonder if the people who live in states with a lower cost of living know how much more expensive other states can be. One can scrimp and save but sometimes that is not enough. I know most people living in such places as Seattle who are what you call permanent renters. The cost of buying a house there is prohibitively expensive.

Texas is supposedly a low cost of living state, too, but as I was noting upthread, the median home here now costs $150k.

That’s not cheap–especially considering that a traditional rule of thumb is that your mortgage not exceed 2X income and housing costs should be kept under 25% of income.

The US median house is almost $190k now. Meanwhile, median household income is $52k.

No wonder all those young adults are living with their parents.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I’m glad you asked this… because I think this also is part of the problem (not that guys are the problem, but that factor is key in the reason why so many are having difficulties)

As a woman, I don’t even know of any suggestions other than just go out and join some group to meet others… But that’s not easy either… I’ve tried that as well and it seems with every group I try, the men are all married, or usually there are no men at all.

There’s also the fact that men and women like to do different activities. If you aren’t a sporty girl, you shouldn’t have to pretend to be into sports and join a group… same with the opposite sceario.

Its true that a woman has to watch out for herself. I was chatted up in the grocery store by a very handsome man that I would have loved to have had the chance to get to know him better, but the initial conversation just kind of fizzled and it was too awkward to proceed anywhere with it… plus, I don’t know what he could have said or done that would not have put that natural female ‘on guard’ fear to rest… Its just there. He wasn’t creepy at all, but that I just didn’t know him. There might be attraction, but he’s still a stranger. The only thing I could have come up with where it could have proceeded is if he asked if I wanted to go sit down and have a drink at the grocery store’s cafe. But even that is very awkward after someone asks you a quirky but fun question about shampoo. Even so, then what after that if we did sit down and talk? I** still **would have no clue about this guy. I don’t have any connections to reassure me that he’s a decent fellow. He probably most likely is, but I’m not going to have the ability to be myself around him until I know much more about him.

Thank you for the response. I am glad that you mentioned the difficulties men and women commonly encounter when joining groups, and I think you are correct in your assessment. I work several jobs so I don’t have a lot of time to join groups, but the social circles in which I do move are primarily composed of men and women who are already married. Up to this point I have been at a loss as to where to meet and interact with single, young women where they are not already preoccupied by a pre-existing group of girlfriends.
With regards to the safety concerns, I understand that a woman has to look out for herself, however I do think it’s possible for a woman to be too careful. Speaking from my own experience, I think a lot of guys feel like they have to ask a girl out right away because they may not get another chance. Whenever I see a girl in church or someplace else part of me feels like I should take it slow and let her get comfortable with me, but another part of me believes that if I don’t make a move right away I’ll miss the boat. To the ladies reading this thread – if you are not put off by him in any way, consider giving him a chance.
But what if he really is a creep or a perv? I’m getting to that. If you stay alert and objective, and use your common sense it will be much harder for him to take advantage of you than you might think. Here are a few suggestions to help keep you ladies safe.

A) If it’s your first or second (or even your third) date always meet someplace public. Witnesses will be a useful deterrent if he is up to no good.
B) Make your first date coffee or lunch, that way if he turns out to be boring, awkward, or creepy you haven’t committed to anything longer than an hour.
C) Have him meet your family/close friends before the third date. This lets him know that you are not alone and have people watching your back. If this makes him very uncomfortable, you don’t want to be with him.
D) If you don’t yet know him very well and trust him enough always drive yourself.
E) If it’s still early in the relationship and you two decide to go out for cocktails, never let him ‘go get’ you a drink. Always make sure that you can see it being mixed or at least make sure that it is delivered by one of the staff.

Other members may be able to come up with a few more safety tips, but these are the most important ones that I could think of. Be smart, be safe, but don’t be scared. Give a guy a chance sometimes. You might just have a good time.

 

[Sarcelle]

Texas is supposedly a low cost of living state, too, but as I was noting upthread, the median home here now costs $150k.

That’s not cheap–especially considering that a traditional rule of thumb is that your mortgage not exceed 2X income and housing costs should be kept under 25% of income.

The US median house is almost $190k now. Meanwhile, median household income is $52k.

No wonder all those young adults are living with their parents.

Add to that student loans, a soft job market, the prevalence of divorce and you have an overall reluctance to get married young. I mean I don’t blame them. If I were unemployed or underemployed, have student loans, I would be hesitant to get married.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Can’t you move? If you’ve got nothing going for you where you live now I don’t see that you have anything to lose by moving to a less expensive area. It has got to be easier to find a safe area and good school when you’re willing to consider the entire US.

Cost of living is one thing, but salaries are generally commensurate with the COL for many fields. Working in defense, our salaries drop precipitously when we leave the mid-atlantic of Los Angeles areas (both hotbeds of defense work). I don’t make people offers for any more than is necessary and fair, and the COL drives that.

Colorado and Texas are also hotbeds, but with much lower salaries.

Now I doubt salary drops and COL drops track 1:1, so I’d be curious to find for a given field where this ratio is the most ideal for someone looking to move.

 

[edwest2]

Totally agree with this, and yet I was born in the late 1970’s. I’d say in the last 20 years its really started to go quickly. I’m amazed myself at the decline of morality. I feel sorry for the young ones who never knew a more softer gentler culture… and I say that having grown up in the notorious 80’s … ( I was quite sheltered from it though).

The plan is definitely without a doubt to make people insensitive… they keep pushing agenda after agenda… and sadly its working. Even among those who wish to remain faithful.

We need to be aware of the media. TV, movies, newspapers, books. It’s creeping into magazines about cars. For the faithful, one hour in Church a week is not enough to counter the noise from the media. Even in the supermarket, it’s like celebrities are getting divorced or into scandalous situations all the time, but how many of us have accepted that as “Oh well. Things just happen.”? And when people see actors and actresses from TV and movies doing wrong, does scandal even mean anything anymore?

When we no longer feel like we are the salt of the earth then the latest “dirt” becomes acceptable, even expected. It does have an effect on us on some level. Bad isn’t bad anymore. Pope Benedict spoke about the problem of indifference. Find those things that are worthy and uplifting.

Ed

 

[GEddie]

Texas is supposedly a low cost of living state, too, but as I was noting upthread, the median home here now costs $150k.

That’s not cheap–especially considering that a traditional rule of thumb is that your mortgage not exceed 2X income and housing costs should be kept under 25% of income.

The US median house is almost $190k now. Meanwhile, median household income is $52k.

No wonder all those young adults are living with their parents.

Texas is also a huge place (large enough to be a minor country) and so there are wide variations within it. Texas Monthly did a special on the five great metros of the state, housing values in which especially SA and Austin, are up there with the pinchier states.

The effect is amplified because TX was spared most of the crash, but is participating fully in the recovery.

So the conditions you see here will depend on what part of the State you zoom in on.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Cost of living is one thing, but salaries are generally commensurate with the COL for many fields. Working in defense, our salaries drop precipitously when we leave the mid-atlantic of Los Angeles areas (both hotbeds of defense work). I don’t make people offers for any more than is necessary and fair, and the COL drives that.

Colorado and Texas are also hotbeds, but with much lower salaries.

Now I doubt salary drops and COL drops track 1:1, so I’d be curious to find for a given field where this ratio is the most ideal for someone looking to move.

No, it isn’t going to be 1:1, there are going to be plenty of places where your paycheck stretches further than others. Presumably if we’re talking about a recently married couple there probably isn’t a home to worry about selling or a career to interrupt, so it doesn’t seem that there is anything to lose by searching for greener pastures.

 

[edwest2]

Thank you for the response. I am glad that you mentioned the difficulties men and women commonly encounter when joining groups, and I think you are correct in your assessment. I work several jobs so I don’t have a lot of time to join groups, but the social circles in which I do move are primarily composed of men and women who are already married. Up to this point I have been at a loss as to where to meet and interact with single, young women where they are not already preoccupied by a pre-existing group of girlfriends.
With regards to the safety concerns, I understand that a woman has to look out for herself, however I do think it’s possible for a woman to be too careful. Speaking from my own experience, I think a lot of guys feel like they have to ask a girl out right away because they may not get another chance. Whenever I see a girl in church or someplace else part of me feels like I should take it slow and let her get comfortable with me, but another part of me believes that if I don’t make a move right away I’ll miss the boat. To the ladies reading this thread – if you are not put off by him in any way, consider giving him a chance.
But what if he really is a creep or a perv? I’m getting to that. If you stay alert and objective, and use your common sense it will be much harder for him to take advantage of you than you might think. Here are a few suggestions to help keep you ladies safe.

A) If it’s your first or second (or even your third) date always meet someplace public. Witnesses will be a useful deterrent if he is up to no good.
B) Make your first date coffee or lunch, that way if he turns out to be boring, awkward, or creepy you haven’t committed to anything longer than an hour.
C) Have him meet your family/close friends before the third date. This lets him know that you are not alone and have people watching your back. If this makes him very uncomfortable, you don’t want to be with him.
D) If you don’t yet know him very well and trust him enough always drive yourself.
E) If it’s still early in the relationship and you two decide to go out for cocktails, never let him ‘go get’ you a drink. Always make sure that you can see it being mixed or at least make sure that it is delivered by one of the staff.

Other members may be able to come up with a few more safety tips, but these are the most important ones that I could think of. Be smart, be safe, but don’t be scared. Give a guy a chance sometimes. You might just have a good time.

That’s the way it was with my last girlfriend.

1. After I asked her out, she asked that we meet at a public place for either coffee or dinner. We each drove our own cars.
2. After she was comfortable, she asked me to pick her up. We took the time to get to know each other. I began to realize we were both on the same page regarding relationships: similar interests, both Christian, both working and both having fun.
3. I had been taught how to be a gentleman and she had been taught how to be a lady. Respect, mutual respect. Earned trust. Then you take it from there.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Sarcelle]

Can’t you move? If you’ve got nothing going for you where you live now I don’t see that you have anything to lose by moving to a less expensive area. It has got to be easier to find a safe area and good school when you’re willing to consider the entire US.

Oh I do have something going for me right now. The post I wrote was more generic and not about me but about the challenges faced by younger people fresh out of school.

I have moved several times. I moved to the West coast, got laid off, moved to the Midwest, got laid-off again and am now in the Northeast. My home state is in Hawaii. I am now in a place with a good job working in the railroad industry which can be quite demanding but quite fulfilling for me. I am hesitant to buy a house since I don’t know if I will be laid-off again. I have been laid-off three times in 7 years. Chances are, I will have to move to find my next job.

At the rate I am going I will be in the UK shortly.

All this moving comes at a steep cost.

I am now far away from family and friends. I am now socially isolated and frankly it sucks. With my Aspergers, making friends while doable is a challenge for me.

 

[Kay_Cee]

You are blessed. You were able to stay home with your children. What Xantippe is trying to say is that the combination of student debt and living in a high cost of living can be prohibitively expensive for young couples. Not all couples are similarly blessed like you.

I grew up in Hawaii. I’ve seen firsthand the high cost of living. Husbands and wives who have to work two or three jobs just to afford a roof over their heads. My own parents did that. A lot of people rely on extended family for childcare. I have memories of my grandparents babysitting me along with my cousins. They put us to work on their mom and pop bakery/grocery store. My parents scrimped and saved but it still was not enough. My mom is the master of budgeting and scrimping. So no, not all families with working moms are frittering away their money on luxury items and McMansions.

Single family homes cost 3/4 of a million. No, these are not luxury McMansions but basic starter homes. Apartments costs a bit less about half a million. Add to that high cost of groceries. A gallon of milk costs $8.00 and that is if they are on sale. Gas is about $5.00 per gallon. It may have gone down a bit.

Now these families can just move to cheaper states but extended family is here and there are also more job opportunities. Some have moved but for most their heart is with their home. That is where their ohana (extended family) is. I miss Hawaii fiercely but I am where the jobs are.

Well, if that is how much stuff is costing where you live, I concede the point.

 

[Sarcelle]

Well, if that is how much stuff is costing where you live, I concede the point.

I no longer live in Hawaii. I am now in the Northeast. Much lower cost of living.

It comes at a cost. No family nearby and social isolation. Moving is no simple matter. I have spent years alone on Thanksgiving and Christmas because spending time with family means an expensive plane ride. For those of you who have family and friends nearby, be thankful. Some of us aren’t so blessed.

 

[dangerousdyls]

We need to be aware of the media. TV, movies, newspapers, books. It’s creeping into magazines about cars. For the faithful, one hour in Church a week is not enough to counter the noise from the media. Even in the supermarket, it’s like celebrities are getting divorced or into scandalous situations all the time, but how many of us have accepted that as “Oh well. Things just happen.”? And when people see actors and actresses from TV and movies doing wrong, does scandal even mean anything anymore?

When we no longer feel like we are the salt of the earth then the latest “dirt” becomes acceptable, even expected. It does have an effect on us on some level. Bad isn’t bad anymore. Pope Benedict spoke about the problem of indifference. Find those things that are worthy and uplifting.

Ed

Well said Ed

 

[Lily_Bernans]

We need to be aware of the media. TV, movies, newspapers, books. It’s creeping into magazines about cars. For the faithful, one hour in Church a week is not enough to counter the noise from the media. Even in the supermarket, it’s like celebrities are getting divorced or into scandalous situations all the time, but how many of us have accepted that as “Oh well. Things just happen.”? And when people see actors and actresses from TV and movies doing wrong, does scandal even mean anything anymore?

When we no longer feel like we are the salt of the earth then the latest “dirt” becomes acceptable, even expected. It does have an effect on us on some level. Bad isn’t bad anymore. Pope Benedict spoke about the problem of indifference. Find those things that are worthy and uplifting.

Ed

So true. Bernard Lonergan calls that “general bias,” and, unfortunately, it can’t be overcome with common sense.

 

[edwest2]

Well said Ed

Thank you.

Ed