Lifeteen

[graceandglory]

**Praise the LORD!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty expanse.
Praise Him for His mighty deeds;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness.
Praise Him with trumpet sound;
Praise Him with harp and lyre.
Praise Him with timbrel and dancing;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and (I)pipe.
Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise Him with resounding cymbals.
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
Praise the LORD!
Psalm 150
**

Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.
Psalm 33:3

I will sing a new song to you, O God; on the ten-stringed lyre I will make music to you,
Psalm 144:9

As He was going, they were spreading their coats on the road.
As soon as He was approaching, near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of the disciples began to praise God joyfully with a loud voice for all the miracles which they had seen,
shouting:
“BLESSED IS THE KING WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD;
Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”
**
Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples.”
But Jesus answered, “I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!”
Luke 19:36-40
**

---

Please don’t deny the Church it’s universal nature. Just because you don’t prefer a music “style” doesn’t mean it has to be wrong. Go to a different Mass if you don’t like it. And don’t judge the genuineness of people’s faith if they prefer stringed instruments and sounding cymbals. It has nothing to do with the sincerity in which they love and worship God. It’s just different. It’s a “new song.”

 

[benedictgal]

Praise the LORD!
Praise God in His sanctuary;
Praise Him in His mighty expanse.
Praise Him for His mighty deeds;
Praise Him according to His excellent greatness.
Praise Him with trumpet sound;
Praise Him with harp and lyre.
Praise Him with timbrel and dancing;
Praise Him with stringed instruments and (I)pipe.
Praise Him with loud cymbals;
Praise Him with resounding cymbals.
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.
Praise the LORD!
Psalm 150

Sing to him a new song;
play skillfully, and shout for joy.
Psalm 33:3

I will sing a new song to you, O God; on the ten-stringed lyre I will make music to you,
Psalm 144:9

As He was going, they were spreading their coats on the road.
As soon as He was approaching, near the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of the disciples began to praise God joyfully with a loud voice for all the miracles which they had seen,
shouting:
“BLESSED IS THE KING WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD;
Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”
**
Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples.”
But Jesus answered, “I tell you, if these become silent, the stones will cry out!”
Luke 19:36-40**

---

Please don’t deny the Church it’s universal nature. Just because you don’t prefer a music “style” doesn’t mean it has to be wrong. Go to a different Mass if you don’t like it. And don’t judge the genuineness of people’s faith if they prefer stringed instruments and sounding cymbals. It has nothing to do with the sincerity in which they love and worship God. It’s just different. It’s a “new song.”

It’s interesting how people will use the psalms to justify the banality of the music that goes on at LifeTeen and take our Lord’s comments completely out of context.

The fact of the matter is that the psalms were not the format for the cultic worship of Yahweh. This was written down in Exodus, Deuteronomy and Leviticus. Actually, these norms were dictated by God, Himself, to Moses. There were very specific rituals and rubric, if you will, as to how God was to be worshipped. All of this was to foreshadow the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Interestingly enough, when the first Temple was destroyed, the Jews in exile chanted the psalms in a manner similar to the Gregorian method. In fact, the early Church chanted these psalms.

Now, the quote from Jesus comes from His triumphant entry into Jerusalem. It was a “parade”, so to speak, not a liturgical action. Of course, the same crowd cheering him would also show up at Pilate’s courtyard demanding that He be crucified. Furthermore, during that same week, Jesus threw out the moneychangers and vendors because they were profaning His Father’s house since they set up shop at the Courtyard of the Gentiles, a place of prayer for the prolestytes and other non-Jews.

 

[ethelzguy]

They didn’t in a " “blast off” " for over 1900 years. What changed?

The world changes, whether we like it or not, or admit it or not. While the Truth does not change, our delivery can, and in some cases must, in order to avoid losing our children to other faiths.

They didn’t have all those instruments centuries ago and most teens turned out great. The loved and embraced the faith. We even had way more of them become priests.

Well, they certainly had other instruments than pipe organs for those “1900+” years…

Boring and what exactly do they mean by boring? I’ve had teens tell me that the “old” music is boring which by the way means tradtional hymms.

Again, the Truth does not change, but the world does. So-called “traditional” hymns are not the “Truth”, they are a form of worship. Better to change some music and keep our kids with us, than to sit pompously on stacks of “traditional” hymnals as they leave for other churches and faiths.

 

[benedictgal]

Actually, the “traditional” hymns that are being panned in this thread speak of the unchanging Truths of the Faith. They are also, in some cases, centuries old and form part of our Sacred Tradition.

Just because the world changes, that doesn’t mean that the Church should conform herself to it. She is called to live in the world, but, not to be changed by the world. She is suppose to change the world, not the other way around.

While the LifeTeen document may have the Nihl Obstat, it doesn’t carry the same weight as those documents issued forth by the Holy See nor the writings of the popes. In fact, Pope John Paul II noted that the same issues raised by Pope St. Pius X in his Motu Propio on Sacred Music are still very much relevent today.

Furthermore, if the issue of music at LifeTeen Masses weren’t so problematic, why would the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist call this type of music one of the shadows of the liturgy? They evidently saw the music as something that needs cleaning up.

 

[MrS]

When DW and I were house shopping about 3 years ago we were out late on a Sunday. So, we stopping in for evening Mass in the town we were in. It was their LifeTeen Mass. It was so amazing we made sure to go again the following week just to see if it was a fluke. Amazing, again. We chose our house in order to be part of that Church.

It was one of the most reverent Mass’ I had ever been to. The music was soft and contemplative. They sang the Agnus Dei in Latin. At the end of Mass, there was adoration for about 20 minutes. Not a single young soul moved or stirred or made a sound. They were all in prayer, some on their faces. I was astonished.

Last week we had a young man accepted into Seminary. This is the 4th one since I started attending this parish about 3 years ago. I think our LifeTeen program is pretty good. So, I am a fan.

Having not been to very many, I am not the foremost authority on the intrinsic value of this kind of Mass.

But I must comment that you appear to have lucked out. Most of the Lifeteen Masses I have been unfortunate to attend reminded me of the Protestant services of Praise, and little worship.

.

 

[MrS]

So you are saying that your prayers are greater than others prayers??? Now you sound like the pharisees!!! Just be thankful that these teens are going to mass and getting something out of it!

Yep they are getting something out of it allright.

I also know dozens of teens who prefer the liturgy of a NO with out the variety of abuses-turned-norms offered at many parishes. And many of them also prefer the TLM when they have the chance to attend.

I also have heard teens remark “… I’ll pass on the LifeTeen, I partied last night…” or similar remarks. I sometimes think they have a better sense of the sacred than many adults. They have distinguised between what they need and what they want… and seek those things in different places…

.

 

[ethelzguy]

Having not been to very many, I am not the foremost authority on the intrinsic value of this kind of Mass.

But I must comment that you appear to have lucked out. Most of the Lifeteen Masses I have been unfortunate to attend reminded me of the Protestant services of Praise, and little worship.

.

I am always amazed when I attend our LifeTeen (old geezer that I am). The reverence displayed by most of those kids would put a lot of the adults around here to shame.

 

[ethelzguy]

They are also, in some cases, centuries old and form part of our Sacred Tradition.

It would be helpful for me to understand you position, if you could direct me to any Church documents that state that any particular hymn forms “part of our Sacred Tradition”.

It might put some things in perspective.

Thanks.

 

[agapewolf]

What is “the break”? I don’t know that part of Mass.

And yet, why does it seem like the latest CCM is the music of choice?

And what, exactly, is meant by “performing [the music] with them in mind”?

?

Just answering these two quetsions…

You didn’t know there was breaking bread in the Mass? A quick explanation. The Lifenight that happens after is suggested to follow the format of a mass “GATHER the people together, proclaim the teaching, break it down, and send them off”.

In the context of this book, they are trying to tie both in together, that is all.

2nd, the use of the word “peform” in this way does in no way mean that they think they are performing a concert. Over and over again at the conferences they empasize the idea of leading the singing, NOT performing a concert. In another thread, there was a discussion about what would the correct term be (of singing/playing music at mass), and it seems a little hard to come by one that isn’t awkward. In fact, the dictionary definition of perform is the correct one.

Unfortunately, some musicians don’t do this, but having been to many LT conferences, as well as being a part of teaching them, the musicians performing a concert is NOT what they are teaching.

 

[jmdsc]

I admit that I am strongly against the music that is used for (our parish) LifeTeen. But - each to his own when it comes to music.

What DOES bother me is the division this creates between the ages. Now BEFORE everyone starts screaming that anyone is welcome at LifeTeen - the name alone implies a segregation/separation.

The word “Catholic” means “universal”. Why can’t we teach these children to love the mass from birth…and stop the division? We have youth groups for the kids to express themselves in their unique way…shouldn’t the mass be the one thing that unites us all together?

 

[benedictgal]

I’ve got a novel idea, instead of watering down the Mass and using phrases like:

GATHER the people together, proclaim the teaching, break it down, and send them off".

why not start off by teaching the kids the proper terms?

We aren’t doing the kids any favors by not teaching them the proper terms and what each means. Furthermore, in the document that was quoted from LifeTeen, I don’t see any reference to the fact that the Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. Maybe if we instill that notion, there wouldn’t be a need to have such bad music. Or, is the notion of sacrifice stoic and not entertaining enough for the young ones?

 

[benedictgal]

I admit that I am strongly against the music that is used for (our parish) LifeTeen. But - each to his own when it comes to music.

What DOES bother me is the division this creates between the ages. Now BEFORE everyone starts screaming that anyone is welcome at LifeTeen - the name alone implies a segregation/separation.

The word “Catholic” means “universal”. Why can’t we teach these children to love the mass from birth…and stop the division? We have youth groups for the kids to express themselves in their unique way…shouldn’t the mass be the one thing that unites us all together?

Yes the Mass is supposed to be universal. However, when you have movements like LifeTeen and the Neocatechumenal Way start treating the Mass as their own personal property, then you have problems. Rome has already addressed both movements. In fact, the Holy See withheld approving the Neocats charter until they cleaned up the manner in which they were treating the Mass.

The problem is that there seems to be some theological differences with the way that the whole LifeTeen thing is approached. The quote from the LifeTeen manual has some glaring red flags.

These are serious problems, but, until the LifeTeen proponents see the the emperor’s new clothes are imaginary, nothing is going to change.

 

[japhy]

You didn’t know there was breaking bread in the Mass?

The document quoted said: “During the break, the music must help the participants focus on the central mystery of Christ’s presence in the breaking of the bread.” Now, perhaps it was misquoted, but I was unsure what exactly “the break” was referring to. The music played during the Fractio (the breaking of the bread) is the Agnus Dei. That song is not so much about the Real Presence in the Eucharist (although we are singing the words in the presence of and to Jesus Christ, present on the altar in the Eucharist) as it is a prayer of penitence before receiving.

The phrase “during the break” sounds like an intermission during the Mass. Now, it sounds like, from your explanation, you’re referring to music between the END of Mass and the BEGINNING of the “Lifenight”. If so, I still find it odd, because the reference to the music “during the break” is out of place in the document, then, because it comes before the reference to the music at the end of Mass.

the use of the word “peform” in this way does in no way mean that they think they are performing a concert.

I was not taking issue with the word “perform”, but rather the “with them in mind” phrase. How is the music at Mass done in a way that is specifically “with [teens] in mind”? Do they mean the music should encourage clapping, tapping of feet, head-bobbing, swaying, etc.? Do they mean it should be about the teens? Or do they mean the language should be “appropriate” for teens; e.g. “super”, “cool”, etc.? What is meant by the phrase?

I would say that the music should be done with the mystery of the Mass in mind, with God in mind. The music can reflect the congregation and be relevant to the congregation without being about the congregation.

 

[agapewolf]

I’ve got a novel idea, instead of watering down the Mass and using phrases like:

why not start off by teaching the kids the proper terms?

We aren’t doing the kids any favors by not teaching them the proper terms and what each means. Furthermore, in the document that was quoted from LifeTeen, I don’t see any reference to the fact that the Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. Maybe if we instill that notion, there wouldn’t be a need to have such bad music. Or, is the notion of sacrifice stoic and not entertaining enough for the young ones?

This isn’t what they are teaching them. THEY DO TEACH THEM THE PROPER TERMS. This was a booklet for YOUTH MINISTERS to tie the lifenight to the mass. THis is ONE page from a book that uses those terms. Geez.

sigh. never mind.

 

[benedictgal]

It would be helpful for me to understand you position, if you could direct me to any Church documents that state that any particular hymn forms “part of our Sacred Tradition”.

It might put some things in perspective.

Thanks.

O Come, O Come, Emmanuel has been sung by the Church for 10 centuries. It is based on the O Anitphons used for Advent. Pangia Lingua, written by St. Thomas Aquinas, effectively defines and explains the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, as do Tatum Ergo and O Salutaris.

Salve Regina is the Hail, Holy Queen in Latin, one of the oldest prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary. The Te Deum (translated as either Holy, God, We Praise Thy Name or God, We Praise You) is one of the Church’s oldest songs of praise to God and is sung on high holy days.

The Attende Domine reminds us of our sinful nature and how we must implore the mercy of God. Oddly enough, none of the new songs for Lent, let alone the Christian contemporary pop stuff, even make mention of our need for the Father’s forgiveness and mercy. It’s all about praising ourselves. The traditional hymns are all about adoring God and his majesty. Whenever these songs speak about us, it is in supplication. The focus still remrains on God, though.

 

[benedictgal]

This isn’t what they are teaching them. THEY DO TEACH THEM THE PROPER TERMS. This was a booklet for YOUTH MINISTERS to tie the lifenight to the mass. THis is ONE page from a book that uses those terms. Geez.

sigh. never mind.

Well, maybe the booklet should have the proper terms so that these youth leaders can learn them. It’s just too much watering down and more entertainment with very little substance.

 

[ethelzguy]

I would say that the music should be done with the mystery of the Mass in mind, with God in mind. The music can reflect the congregation and be relevant to the congregation without being about the congregation.

From what I have seen, the music at our LifeTeen Mass meets your criteria above…it “reflects” teen worship, and is “relevant” to them as well…

 

[agapewolf]

Well, maybe the booklet should have the proper terms so that these youth leaders can learn them. It’s just too much watering down and more entertainment with very little substance.

You can only make the comment if you have actually READ the book.

The youth ministers know the terms. It has nothing to do with entertainment.

 

[agapewolf]

To Japhy:

In the lifenight plan, “Gather, proclaim, break, send”…the break is the breaking down of the teaching…small groups, or open discussion of some sort.

This quote from the book is tieing the lifenight to the mass by using those common terms…getting that cross over to see that there is actually a “break” section in the Mass. the breaking bread, the homily…is “breaking it down” …continued to the liturgy of the eucharist wiht the breaking bread. The mysteries becoming deeper to us, etc. No intermission or anything…just using common term to teach how the lifenight format is modeled from the mass.

 

[Cantaloupe]

I used to be a teen in LifeTeen…if it weren’t for LifeTeen, I really don’t know where I would have ended up! I hope when my little girl grows up and becomes a teenager, they will still have the program. It help understand Catholicism, it motivated me to get active in the church. it is so hard when you are a teenager which I am sure everyone knows. But it is hard with peer pressure, but LifeTeen is there to help Teens realize that there is an outlet that they can go to. As far as separating the old and teens…The older crowd love to see the kids on fire for their faith…I don’t think it separates at all…and as far as the teaching…nothing is being changed but the way of worship…there is still tradition and that is what LifeTeen is about, it is Teenager learning their faith in way they will understand…instead of just growing up in Catholicism and not know what is going on…I’m sure there is a big percentage of people who just grew up in it and still do not understand…that is why we need to educate our kids so they have a better understanding of their faith…and for adults who don’t understand their faith, should also get education…It’s never too late to learn about Catholicism…anyways…that is my Shpeall…