Lila Rose leads crowd decrying abortionist privileges at Colorado Catholic hospital

[Rence]

You are very welcome

 

[Chrysotom]

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Lila Rose leads crowd decrying abortionist privileges at Colorado Catholic hospital
BY JEREMY KRYN
Wed Aug 10, 2011 16:07 ESTComments (3)Tags: Lifeguard, Lila Rose, Live Action, Richard Grossman

Lila Rose at the 2010 Walk for Life West Coast
DURANGO, Colorado, August 10, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Last Thursday, more than 70 people attended a protest at Mercy Regional Medical Center to expose the relationship of abortionist Richard Grossman with the Catholic hospital located in Durango.

Grossman is the longest-serving physician at the hospital, which was founded by the Sisters of Mercy in 1882 and is owned by Catholic Health Initiatives. The abortionist does abortions on Fridays at Planned Parenthood of Durango.

**“The reason I perform abortions is because I’m a Christian,” said the Quaker abortionist amid a similar protest last year.
**
The pro-life organization LifeGuard organized the protest on public property in front of the Catholic hospital. Lila Rose, the founder of Live Action Films, led the protest. Joe Scheidler, of the Pro-Life Action League, who led last year’s protest, has encouraged Catholics to sign a petition against the scandal.

lifesitenews.com/news/lila-rose-leads-crowd-decrying-abortionist-privileges-at-colorado-catholic

“The reason I murder innocent children in their mother’s wombs is because I’m a Christian.”

Let’s make it a little more clear for those who want to rationalize this doctor’s statement. Not a Christian, not at all.

 

[Chrysotom]

“The reason I murder innocent children in their mother’s wombs is because I’m a Christian.”

Let’s make it a little more clear for those who want to rationalize this doctor’s statement. Not a Christian, not at all.

It IS quite clear isn’t it?I would not want to breath the same air as Dr Mengele nor would I that of an abortionist.Some people can rationalize ANYTHING,and have absolutely no shame in doing so or their carefully constructed self-image would be as appalling to them as it is to others who can see quite clearly.

 

[manualman]

Well, I personally think it’s fortunate that your friend is a nurse in a hospital that has enough staff that never does anything contrary to the Catholic faith…

Did you misread this person or intentionally twist it? Nobody here claims that catholic hospitals must not employ professionals that ever do “anything contrary to the Catholic faith.” Nobody.

Abortion simply does not occupy the same moral place that prescribing diaphragms does. Abortion is a fundamental violation of human rights and a catholic hospital who employs such a person is behaving in as unconscionable a manner as a catholic hospital who knowingly employs a serial killer.

My wife has always asked her OB’s if they have any involvement with abortion. She won’t let them touch her if they have. Pro-life people should all take the same stance.

 

[Rence]

Did you misread this person or intentionally twist it? Nobody here claims that catholic hospitals must not employ professionals that ever do “anything contrary to the Catholic faith.” Nobody.

Abortion simply does not occupy the same moral place that prescribing diaphragms does. Abortion is a fundamental violation of human rights and a catholic hospital who employs such a person is behaving in as unconscionable a manner as a catholic hospital who knowingly employs a serial killer.

My wife has always asked her OB’s if they have any involvement with abortion. She won’t let them touch her if they have. Pro-life people should all take the same stance.

I agree with you that patients set the bar for their phsyicians. But again, and I didn’t miss anything, physicians are not employees of any particular hospital, and usually have privilidges at more than one hospital. Some have them in many hospitals. My step-father had priviledges in four hospitals. My own doctors had them in at least two. Catholic hospitals can have morality clauses regarding what was done on campus, but it would be difficult to police a physician on his/her doings off campus. They just don’t provide services that are contrary to Catholic teaching, so the physician sends their patient to another hospital if the patient requires a treatment/procedure that is contrary to Catholic teachings. But they know that they would be limiting their services for their patients if they did try to control what they do off hospital property. They wouldn’t be able to survive in most cases because there are many secular hospitals now. The fact of the matter is, phsyicians don’t have to have priviledges in only Catholic hospitals. They have more options. Perhaps these hospitals care to stay afloat to offer Catholic patients Catholic care in Catholic institutions – something they can’t do if they don’t have the staff to do it…

 

[Chrysotom]

More apologia for abortive doctors.My fiance is a nurse at a Catholic Hospital in Missouri and BELIEVE me they police their doctors’ activities on and off the hospital grounds vis a vis abortion.Right to Life Groups like the one highlighted in this thread will be at their door protesting in a heartbeat.

 

[Rence]

More apologia for abortive doctors.My fiance is a nurse at a Catholic Hospital in Missouri and BELIEVE me they police their doctors’ activities on and off the hospital grounds vis a vis abortion.Right to Life Groups like the one highlighted in this thread will be at their door protesting in a heartbeat.

If that’s what they believe they should do, then that’s what they should do. Everyone should have the liberty to fight for what they believe.

 

[Chrysotom]

If that’s what they believe they should do, then that’s what they should do. Everyone should have the liberty to fight for what they believe.

NO ONE should have the liberty to murder a helpless human being even if Caesar endorses it.Caesar endorsed the destruction and enslavement of Africans and the murder of Jews.This is no different.

An abortionist is no better than Himmler or Mengele or any rapacious dehumanizing,murderous slave owner in our history.In the future when humanities conscience has evolved,abortionists,their apologists,and the SILENT,will be as reviled as Nazis and Slavers are today.Neutrality on this subject is not allowed as it just enables the murder of innocents in the formerly safest,now most dangerous place in the world- a mother’s womb.

NO ONE will be able to claim.“I didn’t know”.

 

[Rence]

NO ONE should have the liberty to murder a helpless human being even if Caesar endorses it.Caesar endorsed the destruction and enslavement of Africans and the murder of Jews.This is no different.

What they have is the liberty to control what goes on inside their own body without outside interference from parties outside their body. With God’s Grace and with the help of others, they need to make the right decision, but it is still important that their decision is their decision to make for themselves.

 

[manualman]

What they have is the liberty to control what goes on inside their own body without outside interference from parties outside their body. With God’s Grace and with the help of others, they need to make the right decision, but it is still important that their decision is their decision to make for themselves.

Same argument that slave-owning Southerners made circa 1860. Sorry, it was hogwash rationalizing then and it’s no different now. Just strike and replace “inside their own body” with “with their chattle property”. Exactly the same argument.

 

[Chrysotom]

Same argument that slave-owning Southerners made circa 1860. Sorry, it was hogwash rationalizing then and it’s no different now. Just strike and replace “inside their own body” with “with their chattle property”. Exactly the same argument.

I’d use slightly stronger words than hogwash.It amazes me that self-professed Catholics can skate so close to the edge of moral ambivalency or relativism.Our Lord sure would not.Thanks for crystalizing the essence of the issue:thumbsup:

 

[Chrysotom]

What they have is the liberty to control what goes on inside their own body without outside interference from parties outside their body. With God’s Grace and with the help of others, they need to make the right decision, but it is still important that their decision is their decision to make for themselves.

No they do NOT.Your liberty STOPS at the murder an innocent human for your personal convenience.You are spouting feminist claptrap that should NEVER be uttered by a Catholic…Your statement is the antithesis of Catholic belief and morality.Your sympathies are quite revealing.

It is akin to a German saying,“I would never murder a poor Jew but who am I to judge others?”.I believe you have outed yourself and all future statements by you on this subject should be taken cum grano salo-a truckload actually-and discarded.

 

[Rence]

No they do NOT.

But…they do. Just because you say they do not, doesn’t mean they do not. If what you’re saying is true, you could physically stop them, but you can’t. If you try, you’ll end up in jail. They don’t have these rights according to your own opinion, but they actually do have these rights and women exercise them every day.

Your liberty STOPS at the murder an innocent human for your personal convenience.

Liberty is the state of being free within society from certain restrictions imposed on one’s way of life…in that regard, my liberty has always stopped where another’s has begun.

You are spouting feminist claptrap that should NEVER be uttered by a Catholic…Your statement is the antithesis of Catholic belief and morality.Your sympathies are quite revealing.

It is akin to a German saying,“I would never murder a poor Jew but who am I to judge others?”.I believe you have outed yourself and all future statements by you on this subject should be taken cum grano salo-a truckload actually-and discarded.

I have outed myself? How so? I’ve always been up-front and honest about how I feel about a woman’s right to consent or refuse treatment done on her own body. And I’m really truly sorry you are so angered by how I feel about this subject, but that’s how I feel about it. It’s really too bad we can’t come out of this thread understanding each other more, but sometimes that happens.

 

[Chrysotom]

But…they do. Just because you say they do not, doesn’t mean they do not. If what you’re saying is true, you could physically stop them, but you can’t. If you try, you’ll end up in jail. They don’t have these rights according to your own opinion, but they actually do have these rights and women exercise them every day.

Liberty is the state of being free within society from certain restrictions imposed on one’s way of life…in that regard, my liberty has always stopped where another’s has begun.

I have outed myself? How so? I’ve always been up-front and honest about how I feel about a woman’s right to consent or refuse treatment done on her own body. And I’m really truly sorry you are so angered by how I feel about this subject, but that’s how I feel about it. It’s really too bad we can’t come out of this thread understanding each other more, but sometimes that happens.

Whatever.I know who I’m dealing with now.And so do others.

 

[Brendan]

Liberty is the state of being free within society from certain restrictions imposed on one’s way of life…in that regard, my liberty has always stopped where another’s has begun…

No, in Catholic terms, Liberty is the abiltiy to do what is good.

What you are refereing to is called ‘license’. A person might have legal license to choose to kill a child, but they never have the ‘freedom’ to do so

 

[Rence]

No, in Catholic terms, Liberty is the abiltiy to do what is good.

What you are refereing to is called ‘license’. A person might have legal license to choose to kill a child, but they never have the ‘freedom’ to do so

And Lila Rose is within her rights to use her liberty to try and get Catholic hospitals to exercise more control over the physicians on staff at them, even what they do off-campus. And that’s fine. It’s very uncommon that they will do that, but my point is, even if they do, the phsyicians will just not have priviledges there. Depending on how many hospitals are in the area, the Catholic hospitals may or may not be able to bully the physicians.

Take the city I used to live in. There were 3 Catholic hospitals, and 6 secular hospitals. If a physician was told they couldn’t have privileges at the Catholic hospitals if they didn’t agree to not provide other services that their client base wanted, it wouldn’t be in their best interest to do so. They would just use the 6 secular hospitals, and just not use the Catholic one. And in that city (not sure about the others), the physicians were a force to be reckoned with when angered. So if those physicians who were being bullied by the Catholic hospital got mad enough…they’d just tell all their collegues, and their collegues would do the same. I’ve seen it done with something as simple as fighting over which company to use for a particular product. At one hospital, management thought it was better to switch sutures from one company to another, the doctors didn’t approve. The managers switched them out on the weekend. The physicians all got together and cancelled their cases monday morning. You know those sutures were switched back overnight. And I can tell you as their OR buyer that both companies were good companies and the physiciand just did it on principle. What do you think they would do if a Catholic hospital started dictating how they ran their practice?

Where I live now, there is only one Catholic hospital, and several secular. In fact, the one Catholic hospital is affiliated with a secular one, and yes, the secular one does non-Catholic approved procedures. In other words, it would be no skin off physician’s nose if they lost priviledges to the Catholic institution because they would just go elsewhere. So basically, if there are a lot of secular hospitals in the area, the Catholic hospitals are not going to be able to bully the physicians. They have a very good chance if there is more balance, or if there are more Catholic hospitals than secular.

What Lila Rose is doing is a good thing, but it’s not going to be feasible for many Catholic insititutions. Maybe these Catholic institutions think that having their Catholic facility available to deliver Catholic care for Catholics is more important than not having a Catholic resource for patients, where non-Catholic approved procedures are done without well catechized patients knowing any different…?

 

[Corki]

It does mine.I would not want the hands of a murderer touching me or my children.If any OB-GYN physicians perform abortions anywhere and work at Catholic Hospitals they should be expelled or the hospitals should be protested and shamed into expelling the murderer(s).I’m sure Dr.Mengele had a fine bedside manner with non-Jews but so what?He was still a Nazi butcher.

I agree. My skin woud definately crawl if my OB/GYN was also an abortionist. How could you ever trust his/her judgement on anything? You have to be able to trust your doctors and that is a trust breaker, as far as I am concerned. It’s the same as finding out your pediatrician is a child molestor. It’s a fatal character flaw.

More apologia for abortive doctors.My fiance is a nurse at a Catholic Hospital in Missouri and BELIEVE me they police their doctors’ activities on and off the hospital grounds vis a vis abortion.Right to Life Groups like the one highlighted in this thread will be at their door protesting in a heartbeat.

You would think that all Catholic hospitals and health associations would do this. It shouldn’t even be a question.

I suppose it’s possible a “Catholic” hospital feels it has no choice but to employ or contract with an abortionist “doctor” due to doctor shortages or whatever. But the hospital should then be required to inform the patients. Maybe give them a disclosure document or post it in the doctor’s waiting room. I would think they would want to do this just for legal protection. If I found out that a doctor I was referred to by a Catholic hospital was actually an abortionist, that they knew this and didn’t disclose it, I would be looking to take legal action.

 

[Rence]

You would think that all Catholic hospitals and health associations would do this. It shouldn’t even be a question.

Well, they might have more leverage if the physician were an actual employee. What about nurses? They are employees of hospitals. Some nurses work in different hospitals, or take extra hours in another facility. I wonder if they try to police their nurses as well. I haven’t seen a contract for nurses in a Catholic hospital, so I wouldn’t know.

I suppose it’s possible a “Catholic” hospital feels it has no choice but to employ or contract with an abortionist “doctor” due to doctor shortages or whatever. But the hospital should then be required to inform the patients. Maybe give them a disclosure document or post it in the doctor’s waiting room. I would think they would want to do this just for legal protection.

Legal protection for what? What would the notice say?

If I found out that a doctor I was referred to by a Catholic hospital was actually an abortionist, that they knew this and didn’t disclose it, I would be looking to take legal action.

Legal action for what? What kind of suit could be filed?

Most Ob-Gyn’s perform abortions either in their office, or in hospitals. Maybe it’s because I’m from a big city, I don’t know, but I always knew the doctor was independent of the hospital, and had a choice in hospitals where he/she would send a patient depending on many factors, including patient preference or doctor convenience. I’ve usually had two options, depending on the physician.

 

[Corki]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corki
You would think that all Catholic hospitals and health associations would do this. It shouldn’t even be a question.

Well, they might have more leverage if the physician were an actual employee. What about nurses? They are employees of hospitals. Some nurses work in different hospitals, or take extra hours in another facility. I wonder if they try to police their nurses as well. I haven’t seen a contract for nurses in a Catholic hospital, so I wouldn’t know.

Whether the physician is an employee or a contractor, the hospital can demand a certain standard of moral behavior. Working in an abortion clinic, whether as an abortionist or a nurse would be a violation of a reasonable morals clause.

Legal protection for what? What would the notice say?

How about:

St. Whoever Hospital, in spite of having the word “Catholic” over the door does not make any assertions as to the moral character or behavior of its employees or contracted physicians. Some individuals who are listed as “doctors” in our physician directory may in fact be abortionists. Referral of a patient by St. Whoever or any member of its staff does not imply an endorsement of any kind.

Legal action for what? What kind of suit could be filed?

Misrepresentation. A referral from a Catholic hospital should be relied upon to reflect the values of Catholic health care. The Catholic Church is widely known to be anti-abortion. Referal to an abortionist would be contrary to what any reasonable person would expect from an organization using the word Catholic in its name - absent a disclosure, of course.

Most Ob-Gyn’s perform abortions either in their office, or in hospitals.

That’s not true. I just did a little research and there are no good numbers since doctors who perform abortions don’t have to reveal this in most states. But the estimates are that less than 25% of all OB/GNYNs perform abortions.

Maybe it’s because I’m from a big city, I don’t know, but I always knew the doctor was independent of the hospital, and had a choice in hospitals where he/she would send a patient depending on many factors, including patient preference or doctor convenience. I’ve usually had two options, depending on the physician.

That’s a different situation. I would expect that the doctor had multiple hospitals and could refer them to one or the other depending on many different factors. But when it’s the hospital doing the referring, that’s not quite the same. Hospitals are usually much more discriminating in granting privaleges than doctors are in applying for them. A Catholic hospital should be expected to make certain basic criteria a requirement for privaleges, let alone referrals or office space. A requirement that the doctor not have a side business of baby killing seems a small request.