List of 14 States Where Governors Rejected Federal Abstinent Money

[KarenNC]

Wow, thanks so much! I’ve been criticized like 3 times for this, twice very very angrily…yet no one would explain how to do it, correctly. For some reason this stuff never seems to be intuitive, at least not for me. !

Thank you!!!

You’re welcome. And don’t worry, I don’t see it as intuitive. I just happen to have a bit of background with doing very basic HTML coding so I knew what I was looking at when I saw the tags.

 

[KarenNC]

The 100 people on the Mayflower of which 41 signed the Mayflower Compact were Christians

Yes, and…? Of course, you are aware that the Pilgrims were not the first people on these shores, and not even the first Europeans.

They would also not have welcomed Catholics with open arms

mayflowerhistory.com/History/religion.php
To the Pilgrims, there were only two sacraments: baptism and the Lord’s Supper. The other sacraments (Confession, Penance, Confirmation, Ordination, Marriage, Confession, Last Rites) of the Church of England and Roman Catholic church were inventions of man, had no scriptural basis, and were therefore superstitions, to the point of being heretical. The Pilgrims opposed mass, and considered marriage a civil affair to be handled by the State (not a religious sacrament). The legitimacy of the Pope, the Saints, and the church hierarchy were rejected, as was the veneration of relics. Icons and religious symbols such as crosses, statues, stain-glass windows, fancy architecture, and other worldly manifestations of religion were rejected as a form of idolatry. It was the rejection of the authority of the church hierarchy, and of the sacraments, that was the primary cause of conflict between the Pilgrims and the Church of England.

 

[gam197]

originally posted by KarenNC
Yes, and…? Of course, you are aware that the Pilgrims were not the first people on these shores, and not even the first Europeans.

Yes, St. Augustine, Florida (1565) is testimony to the first Spanish European explorers. The Portuguese explorers sailed predominately to South and Central America.

Maryland was a state set up by Lord Baltimore for Catholics. It was named for the"Mother of G_d" but since that wouldn’t have gone over well in the New World, it was also named for Queen Henrietta Maria, wife of Charles I.

Even the Native Indians would have held a belief in the “Great Spirit”.

 

[KarenNC]

Maryland was a state set up by Lord Baltimore for Catholics. It was named for the"Mother of G_d" but since that wouldn’t have gone over well in the New World, it was also named for Queen Henrietta Maria, wife of Charles I.

And history showed us how long that worked for the Catholics and the need for separation of church and state.
traditioninaction.org/History/B_001_Colonies.html

• The “Maryland Experiment” began when Charles I issued a generous charter to a prominent Catholic convert from Anglicanism, Lord Cecil Calvert, for the American colony of Maryland. In the new colony, religious tolerance for all so-called Christians was preserved by Calvert until 1654. In that year, Puritans from Virginia succeeded in overthrowing Calvert’s rule, although Calvert regained control four years later. The last major political uprising took place in 1689, when the ‘Glorious Revolution” of William and Mary ignited a new anti-Catholic revolt in Maryland, and the rule of the next Lord Baltimore, Charles Calvert, was overthrown.

Therefore, in 1692 Maryland’s famous Religious Toleration Act officially ended, and the Maryland Assembly established the so-called Church of England as the official State religion supported by tax levies. Restrictions were imposed on Catholics for public worship, and priests could be prosecuted for saying Mass. Although Catholics generally maintained their social status, they were denied the right to vote or otherwise participate in the government of the colony their ancestors had founded. (12) This barebones history is the real story of the famous religious liberty of colonial Maryland…

Calvert was only following a long-standing trend of English Catholics, who tended to ask only for freedom to worship privately as they pleased and to be as inoffensive to Protestants as possible. A directive of the first Lord Proprietor in 1633 stipulated, for example, that Catholics should “suffer no scandal nor offence” to be given any of the Protestants, that they practice all acts of the Roman Catholic Religion as privately as possible, and that they remain silent during public discourses about Religion. (15) In fact, in the early years of the Maryland colony the only prosecutions for religious offenses involved Catholics who had interfered with Protestants concerning their religion. As a pragmatic realist, Calvert understood that he had to be tolerant about religion in order for his colony, which was never Catholic in its majority, to be successful. It was this conciliatory and compromising attitude the Calverts transplanted to colonial Maryland in the New World. Further, the Calverts put into practice that separation of Church and State about which other English Catholics had only theorized. "*

Even the Native Indians would have held a belief in the “Great Spirit”.

By “even” do you mean to imply that the Native Americans were Christian because they held a belief in the “Great Spirit”?

 

[gam197]

Originally Posted** by gam197 **
Maryland was a state set up by Lord Baltimore for Catholics. It was named for the"Mother of G_d" but since that wouldn’t have gone over well in the New World, it was also named for Queen Henrietta Maria, wife of Charles I

.

originally posted by KarenNC
And history showed us how long that worked for the Catholics and the need for separation of church and state.

Separation of Church and State was not the goal of the 1st amendment. The goal was that Religion could abound through that freedom. The Forefathers would have expected their nation to be Christian.

Unlike the Puritans, the original Maryland pioneers had not made church membership a requirement for citizenship so Anglicans and Puritans came into this hospital Maryland area and it did change.

Yet Maryland did produced John Carroll, Bishop (1735-1815)while New York produced Rev. John Hughes,Archbishop(1797-1864). These were great Catholic leaders who helped pushed forth the faith.

Today there are over 60 million Catholics in the U.S and as in the past, many of them agree with Protestant Christians on a number of core issues. One would be the teaching of Abstinence in schools and an alternative which would be to take all Sex Ed programs out of the public schools.

originally posted by KarenNC
By “even” do you mean to imply that the Native Americans were Christian because they held a belief in the “Great Spirit”?

Of course not, but God instills his basic premise in the human heart and mind.

 

[bankerdavid]

Wow, I knew Catholics were persecuted in the colonies but had no idea it was quite that bad. All the more salutations to our FF for havinig the courage to protect us as well when they prohibited the govt from establishing any religion. I’d have thought the Enlightenment had more to do with the idea that Govt and Church don’t mix than the reformation. Historically, even the Church recognized the disaster that can occur when the state and church are tightly entwined.

The Founding Fathers didn’t know what they were losing, because of the histeria regarding the purpose of the Church. It’s true that the Church’s role should not be to control governments, but government should look to the church when it comes to matters of faith and morals, because these come from God, and are instilled in each human (Christian or not).

 

[gam197]

originally posted by bankerdavid
You know, I used to think the the foundation of our country was a great thing. That Jefferson and Adams were really the great men and set a good model for our country. **They were, in some ways, but they defined morality as “the greatest good for the greatest number.” **Their ideas were not based on divine law. They had a great distaste for Catholic Theology.

By my posts I don’t want to take away from the importance of this statement.

Many people don’t realize that the “Penal Code Laws” that were placed in Ireland to annihilate the Irish were also placed in the American Colonies. They did not allow the printing of Catholic books. They burn churches.