List of Un-Biblical Catholic Practices

[Melanie01]

YAWN…why waste your time and skull sweat on these persons who would not believe if they were doubting Thomas…

The RCC was established by Jesus Christ and the gates of hell will never prevail. Oh and almost 2000 years and millions of people have believed in a nonsense…give me a break!

 

[JaneFrances]

Okay, seriously, I’m worried . . .Where is William?

William, if you are even out there still, don’t you even care that your list is being challenged? I mean, isn’t this your smoking gun? Can’t you defend it?

 

[Church_Militant]

These people are so gullible.

What this is is nothing more that “the Boettner List” from his classic anti-Catholic bunkum pile “Roman Catholicism”.

Too bad that all you have to do is CLICK THIS LINK

to refute it. It’s called “The Boettner List: Fact ot Fiction?”
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum,Click that link. The whole list has been soundly refuted.

And Sand Mountain William and his buddies thing the Catholic Church came into existence in 380 AD, which is a load of bunk because

1. The name Catholic Church is actually used in the Greek text of Acts 9:31. ἡ μεν ουν εκκλησια καθ᾽ ὁλης της ιουδαιας και γαλιλαιας και σαμαρειας ειχεν ειρηνην οικοδομουμενη και πορευομενη τω φοβω του κυριου, και τη παρακλησει του ἁγιου πνευματος επληθυνοντο.
2. St. Ignatius of Antioch used the name in a letter to the church at Smyrna in about 110 AD. Since Smyrna was a long ways off from Antioch, why would he have used a name like that if they weren’t already familiar with it?
3. The Catholic Church was founded by Our Lord Himself in 33 AD and there a TON of scripture and history to back that up and honest scholars know that.
   Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

Sand Mountain huh? Got refuted by another Alabama boy from Our Lady of Sorrows parish in Homewood.

 

[asteroid]

The trouble with refuting the list -

As Karl Keating mentioned in Catholicism and Fundamentalism, each one line accusation can take pages to soundly refute.

And then your sensible work will be answered with a one line accusation either on a totally different subject or that ignores pretty much everything that you’ve written.

The list is long - refuting takes time. Most of us don’t have the time. Thankfully the refutations here and on the site linked to in this thread are all good.

No matter how sensible the refutations (like refuting the transubstantiation invented in 1215 one by quoting sources from over a millennium earlier) they tend to fall on deaf ears.

For many protestants someone as late as Ignatius of Antioch should be ignored. Only the Bible can be used in debates with them - which in most cases doesn’t matter. Or only the Bible and whatever doctrinal system or preachers they are into.

I’ve never seen a copy of Boettner’s book - if I find a cheap copy I’ll get it. I first found the list in Finis Dake’s book “God’s Plan For Man” which I bought when I was into his Annotated Study Bible, a book which I still find very useful at times even with all the things in it that I believe are erroneous.

At various times I’ve discussed Catholicism with Dake adherents to no avail at all - and in the last week I find myself immersed in new discussion with some Dake lovers who ‘were catholics but are now christians.’ Oh well. It probably won’t lead to radical conversions but hopefully might plant seeds to some people realising we’re not just a bunch of hell bound pagans.

 

[cheddarsox]

Okay, seriously, I’m worried . . .Where is William?

William, if you are even out there still, don’t you even care that your list is being challenged? I mean, isn’t this your smoking gun? Can’t you defend it?

Just a reminder, William didn’t post this list here on this particular forum, someone copied it from his original post of it. So, it’s not really a surprise that he is not here defending it. He may not even know that someone placed it here and attached his name to it.

 

[JaneFrances]

Just a reminder, William didn’t post this list here on this particular forum, someone copied it from his original post of it. So, it’s not really a surprise that he is not here defending it. He may not even know that someone placed it here and attached his name to it.

You may be right, however, I assumed that he does know per post #5.

 

[Church_Militant]

Someone can PM him a link…

 

[Eden]

You may be right, however, I assumed that he does know per post #5.

You’re right. He knows about this thread. He came to this thread and posted #5 after I posted the link in the original thread where the list appeared.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The trouble with refuting the list -

As Karl Keating mentioned in Catholicism and Fundamentalism, each one line accusation can take pages to soundly refute.

And then your sensible work will be answered with a one line accusation either on a totally different subject or that ignores pretty much everything that you’ve written.

The list is long - refuting takes time. Most of us don’t have the time. Thankfully the refutations here and on the site linked to in this thread are all good.

No matter how sensible the refutations (like refuting the transubstantiation invented in 1215 one by quoting sources from over a millennium earlier) they tend to fall on deaf ears.

For many protestants someone as late as Ignatius of Antioch should be ignored. Only the Bible can be used in debates with them - which in most cases doesn’t matter. Or only the Bible and whatever doctrinal system or preachers they are into.

It depends what one is using it for. Calvinists (Boettner was a member of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, which is a conservative Calvinist denomination) do not in fact despise the Fathers - they quote them, just as Catholics, Anglicans, & Orthodox do. Boettner’s books quotes them a fair amount.​

The Protestants who tend not to bother with the Fathers at all are those Protestants who tend not to have much time for creeds, confessions of faith, books of Church order, catechisms, & the like - IOW, Pentecostals (for example). Calvinists regard these things as of great importance; even if many will probably not have much idea of the difference between Ignatius of Antioch & Gregory the Gregory;not that they would be alone in not knowing much about the Fathers.

The Bible is supreme in authority for Calvinism - it is not alone as a source of theological guidance ##

I’ve never seen a copy of Boettner’s book - if I find a cheap copy I’ll get it. I first found the list in Finis Dake’s book “God’s Plan For Man” which I bought when I was into his Annotated Study Bible, a book which I still find very useful at times even with all the things in it that I believe are erroneous.

At various times I’ve discussed Catholicism with Dake adherents to no avail at all - and in the last week I find myself immersed in new discussion with some Dake lovers who ‘were catholics but are now christians.’ Oh well. It probably won’t lead to radical conversions but hopefully might plant seeds to some people realising we’re not just a bunch of hell bound pagans.## In case you do have the opportunity to pick up a copy, here are some details

I have the 1989 edition, which is the fifth, in hardback - Boettner died in 1990, so I imagine it is also the last. It contains a few corrections of earlier mistakes.

It is 464 pages long, has 19 chapters, is published by the Presbyterian & Reformed Publishing Company. My copy cost £ 7.95 new, some years ago, so I would guess a new copy would cost about $ 20 at current prices.

The cover is black and dark orange.

International Standard Book Number = 0-87552-130-4

Library of Congress Catalog Card Number = 61-11748

The List is on pages 7 to 9.

I would get it at second hand, if possible - unless you like reading “bad books”. ##

 

[Stonez]

Sorry, I didn’t know that website I put on my post was not supposed to be there.
I’ll try not to make that mistake again:thumbsup:

 

[steppenwolf1218]

I find this to be a fascinating thread. I need to remember where it’s at so I can keep going through it and copy the links here for future reference. I’m always on the lookout for legitamate research sources. I counter argue protestants from time to time about these silly little predujices they have about the Church. Most of their arguments are unfounded and based on what they’ve been told about us from generation to generation. I actually come across the occassional protestant who actually believes that Catholics aren’t allowed to have Bibles in their homes. Gee, I suppose all those Catholic bibles at Barnes and Noble are there for other faiths to buy and study.

 

[janryboy]

they(noncatholics) always insist that…

even without proof on their side…they make it as they are very sure…just to make it a weapon against us…

as always…i often hear that its was Constantine…that all were still paganism…

oh…grrr…horrible for them…hehehe

 

[patrick457]

Yep…
Many Anti-Catholics always say Constantine committed the crime of instituting this continuation of an ‘Ancient Babylonian (or Assyrian or Egyptian etc.) Mystery Religion’, endorsing it as ‘The True Christianity’ and persecuting the ‘True Christians’ who went underground.

Actually, It’s not fair for Constantine. He always gets blamed by people for declaring Jesus Christ “God”, Letting in too many pagans into Christianity who then turned Christianity into Paganism, forming the Institution that is now Roman Catholicism and abandoning the True Christianity away in the process, Persecuting people who taught differently than him…Just as many of our forefathers praised him, many people right now are pointing the finger at him. It’s really not fair.

 

[patrick457]

I find this to be a fascinating thread. I need to remember where it’s at so I can keep going through it and copy the links here for future reference. I’m always on the lookout for legitamate research sources. I counter argue protestants from time to time about these silly little predujices they have about the Church. Most of their arguments are unfounded and based on what they’ve been told about us from generation to generation. I actually come across the occassional protestant who actually believes that Catholics aren’t allowed to have Bibles in their homes. Gee, I suppose all those Catholic bibles at Barnes and Noble are there for other faiths to buy and study.

But then again, if those people were KJV-onlyists, they might not even consider the Catholic (and perhaps the other Protestant) Bibles as Bibles.

If the above is true, they might be saying Catholics aren’t allowed to have the TRUE Holy, Incorrupt, 66-Booked Word of God (KJV Version) in their homes and are instead ordered to have ‘corrupt’ and ‘deficient’ Bibles in their houses that whose New Testament are not translated from the Textus Receptus, does not use Shakesperean English, contain 73 Books, and are full of ‘Romish Heresy’ so that they would not know the Truth. Perhaps for them, ‘Less is More’

 

[BobCatholic]

Yep…
Many Anti-Catholics always say Constantine committed the crime of instituting this continuation of an ‘Ancient Babylonian (or Assyrian or Egyptian etc.) Mystery Religion’, endorsing it as ‘The True Christianity’ and persecuting the ‘True Christians’ who went underground.

Interesting, and when you ask for proof of these “true Christians who went underground” they won’t have any, so they expect you to accept their claims on blind faith

Hey, just because their faith is blind doesn’t mean ours has to be

 

[Zooey]

Bearing in mind that Boettner was a Calvinist, there are probably two reasons for the appearance of wax candles on his list:​

1. Calvinist Church order does not allow as legitimate for Christian worship anything not clearly laid down in the NT. This is why they don’t have feast-days, musical instruments, candles, & so on.

I bet they have electric lights & central heat in winter, though!! And I want to see where in the Bible ( KJV only!) they found the Biblical permission for those!

But then again, if those people were KJV-onlyists, they might not even consider the Catholic (and perhaps the other Protestant) Bibles as Bibles.

Well of course!! I once had a KJV-onlyist that I was telling about having my great-grandmother’s Dutch Bible that she brought over from Holland with her, when they emigrated back in the 19th century, & the first question I was asked was: “Oh! But is that the:whacky::whacky: Dutch King James?”:whacky: :whacky:
I only wish I was kidding…

 

[yinekka]

Unless you have a lot of time on your hands and want to hone your research and apologetic skills remember the old saying “What do you do when someone throws you a hot potato? Throw it back.” If someone makes claims like those in the list, ask them to provide primary sources - let them do the leg work. As someone else has pointed out, Karl Keating said that it could take hours to deal with each one of the statements just to have them dismissed in a sentence - people who provide lists like this are not genuine seekers after Truth.

Another point - other religions seem to be obsessed with Catholicism. Is their own theology so barren that they have nothing to do but put Catholicism under the microscope?

 

[RCCDefender]

Okay, seriously, I’m worried . . .Where is William?

William, if you are even out there still, don’t you even care that your list is being challenged? I mean, isn’t this your smoking gun? Can’t you defend it?

Hey, honestly, let’s give Mr. Potter a break. My guess is that he just posted the list without thinking. We can all admit that we’ve done things without thinking too, right? He didn’t even come up with the list himself, it was e-mailed to him, so he probably just didn’t question it’s validity. I have read a lot of things from Mr. Potter in the Non-Catholics Forum, and he seems to be softening his stance a little bit.

 

[Zooey]

The Boettner list almost always shows up, only to be abandoned when its poster realizes that everybody knows about it, & that its a crock.
Someday, I hope to see someone have the sand to say, he’s realized just how much of a crock it really is…

 

[JaneFrances]

Hey, honestly, let’s give Mr. Potter a break. My guess is that he just posted the list without thinking. We can all admit that we’ve done things without thinking too, right? He didn’t even come up with the list himself, it was e-mailed to him, so he probably just didn’t question it’s validity. I have read a lot of things from Mr. Potter in the Non-Catholics Forum, and seems to be softening his stance a little bit.

Forgive me if i seemed too harsh in my quandry. Truly, I was quite hopeful that a person who would use this list would be interested in its defense. My interest was piqued when I read William’s response to this thread:

Please tackle away
And I would prefer if you called me William rather than “sandmountainsli”
WP

My sense of this response was that he wanted to defend the tackle. Given your familiarity with him and his recent postings, I see that my sense may have been mistaken. I apologize.

I do, however, find it frustrating that so many of these “dialogues” end in someone posting an accusation or a list of accusations and then completely dropping the ball. My hope was that William would either carry it or throw it.