Listening to certain songs

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grandfather said:
Wirra,
The sarcasm and silly ridicule diminish your credibility.
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Eco wrote an entire novel around the proposition that the bible does not record Jesus ever laughing.

while I presume He laughed, its a dead certainty that no Catholic has ever laughed at anything.
 
UndertheRadar said:
Temptation is nothing to taken lightly, and the saints had a good understanding of what it meant to them. For example, St. Francis of Assisi and St. Benedict were tempted and if it persisted, they would throw themselves into thorn-bushes and roll in them until they bled. Now I’m not suggesting to do this, but my point is that they did not dismiss temptation as something trivial. This extends even to immoral music.
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why not? if you’re going to take this seriously, why not?

and what, exactly, am I supposed to have been temped into doing by watching elvis gryate on TV? or by listening to willie nelson?
 
I think Christian musicians are so concerned with appearing ‘goodie’, even if it’s not about worship, so that it’s hard to tap into any real emotion. That’s probably why secular music sounds more ‘authentic’, particularly singer-songwriter type stuff.

For example it’s hard to write about heartbreak when you’re not supposed to appear attached to anything, or anyone. It’s hard to express anger when you’re not supposed to be angry. Hard to express longing when you’re not supposed to long after anything etc.

More than that it’s hard to write something musically interesting when the focus is primarily on the right message, and the music is just the background, something to serve it up with.
 
cynic said:
I think Christian musicians are so concerned with appearing ‘goodie’, even if it’s not about worship, so that it’s hard to tap into any real emotion. That’s probably why secular music sounds more ‘authentic’, particularly singer-songwriter type stuff.

For example it’s hard to write about heartbreak when you’re not supposed to appear attached to anything, or anyone. It’s hard to express anger when you’re not supposed to be angry. Hard to express longing when you’re not supposed to long after anything etc.

More than that it’s hard to write something musically interesting when the focus is primarily on the right message, and the music is just the background, something to serve it up with.
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Heartbreak, or getting high on cocaine, or what goes on under the board walk with your baby is indeed sung about best by those who experience it and or hope to.

Hymns are written by those who hope to avoid those things or have, and instead are interested in glorifying God, or telling about their experience of having their lives imrpoved by an encounter with God.

So you have expressions of different experiences or aspirations.

Rock and roll is best suited to one and the Christian musicians who adopt its musical style to their lyrics, as others have said here, don’t really do a good job of making rock music. One person wrote correctly that the message does not fit the spirit of Rock and roll. It is indeed a different spirit and the two can not meld together.

People can try to live in both worlds for a time, being drawn to both, but ultimately end up in one or the other. The poster who insists that rock and its culture and message are not spiritually dangerous to souls identifies himself as a heretic.

The message has changed over the decades. At first it was pretty innocent, a little naughty, a little rebellious, then a lot rebellious, then blatant about sex and drugs and party hard, and now it is hos and rape and murder, death and suicide.

Mick Jagger was lowered on stage from the ceiling dressed as the devil. Some nitwit Irish woman singer went on stage and tore up a picture of the pope, her enemy. Michael Jackson is so bizarre that no one can even relate. Janis od’d, Jim Morrisson, Jimi, Curt. The Stones have been heroin addicts for decades. The Dead are all about drugs and Garcia was addicted for decades. Guns and Roses were fueled by coke.

Yep it is all harmless fun. Listening to it can’t hurt anyone.
 
grandfather said:
…

People can try to live in both worlds for a time, being drawn to both, but ultimately end up in one or the other. The poster who insists that rock and its culture and message are not spiritually dangerous to souls identifies himself as a heretic. …
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I’ve heard *Sympathy for the devil *maybe a thousand times since I was a kid and … guess what … I don’t have sympathy for the devil.

now that Sinatra guy … holy macker’l … what do you think Fly me to the moon really meant? not suitable for any upstanding anyone.
 
grandfather said:
I think the original poster is a Catholic asking a question hoping for an answer from a Catholic perspective. Semi-Pelagianists would not be disposed to provide that. They are good at sarcasm and mockery though.
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No, what I said was sarcasm in response to your “I’m glad you never overdosed. Congradulations [sic]” bit. If you’re going to point out the splinter in someone else’s eye, make sure you take care of the plank in yours.
 
Wirraway said:
I’ve heard *Sympathy for the devil *maybe a thousand times since I was a kid and … guess what … I don’t have sympathy for the devil.

now that Sinatra guy … holy macker’l … what do you think Fly me to the moon really meant? not suitable for any upstanding anyone.
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If Sinatra was a reprobate what does that have to do with Mick Jagger’s fascination with the devil? If X is evil, but the evil is veiled a bit, how does that make it ok for Y to be evil, or how does it prove Y is not evil?

There is no correlation. You keep making comparisons that are irrelevant.
 
grandfather said:
I was not being sarcastic.
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While I will grant you that sarcasm does not translate well to the unspoken word, what you said certainly had a sarcastic riff to it. The person you initially said that to could just as easily say it back to you.

I feel like you’re missing the point of what we’re trying to say. I’ve said it twice in this forum now, and I’ll say it a thousand more if I have to. Songs don’t make people do anything!!! Just like guns don’t make people shoot them, drugs don’t make people use them, and here’s one that everyone will get, God doesn’t make people worship Him. We all have choices, and if I choose to listen to music, whether it be Sympathy for the Devil, Luck be a Lady Tonight, Enter Sandman, or Suicide Solution what I do with those lyrics is all my choice. Would Jesus come down and listen to those songs with me? Possibly. Would He object? Probably, but He would also tell me to make my own choice about it. I’m not being relativistic either, simply stating that how one responds to a message is their own, personal choice.
 
And what makes you think listening to classical music didn’t influence listeners into trying dangerous practices like Freemasonry, alcoholism, homosexuality, etc? We know for a fact that Haydn became a Freemason because his ol’ buddy Mozart set an example for him. Are you going to background check every musician you listen to? Or maybe you’d prefer to brand an entire genre as evil while there are other genres just as “bad” or worse.
 
grandfather said:
If Sinatra was a reprobate what does that have to do with Mick Jagger’s fascination with the devil? If X is evil, but the evil is veiled a bit, how does that make it ok for Y to be evil, or how does it prove Y is not evil?

There is no correlation. You keep making comparisons that are irrelevant.
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I’m just laughing (as any good semipelagian would) at all this uproar… is there any form of popular entertainment that isn’t sinful or a near occasion of sin?
 
if madonna and britney spears release a duet of christmas carols and hymns (in latin), what are we to make of that?

if a christian band does a cover of Sympathy for the devil, what are we to do?

Shannon: I think the human part of Jesus would enjoy a night at a good blues club, even though He’d be surrounded by sinners.
 
grandfather said:
Mick Jagger was lowered on stage from the ceiling dressed as the devil. Some nitwit Irish woman singer went on stage and tore up a picture of the pope, her enemy. Michael Jackson is so bizarre that no one can even relate. Janis od’d, Jim Morrisson, Jimi, Curt. The Stones have been heroin addicts for decades. The Dead are all about drugs and Garcia was addicted for decades. Guns and Roses were fueled by coke.

Yep it is all harmless fun. Listening to it can’t hurt anyone.
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I think you have a limited awareness of secular music. There’s a lot out there that doesn’t fit into this narrow “drug addicted rock stars” category.
 
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grandfather:
I very much agree with you that everything that happens has a cause. I wouldn’t be here in this great forum if I didn’t believe that. The question is where does that cause stem from. I will also agree that what happened to your friend is tragic, and I have seen what alcoholism can do to a really good man, but let’s look at what caused him to drink. Did he listen to a song and thought “Hey, after 50 years, I think I’d like to get wasted away in Margaritaville?” If that’s the case, he should listen to the next few lines…“but I know, it’s my own d@#n fault.” He made a choice to start drinking. Now he might have heard someone say that alcohol can relax you or that having a really good beer is one of the finer pleasures on the planet, but he made a choice to drink the first one, and he made the choice to drink after that.

Not having lived in the 60’s I can’t really comment on what people would say, but I don’t think they’d say that the music written influenced them. They might say it gave them a voice, just like many of my generation said about Kurt Cobain (something I never did agree with), but not influence. I will grant you that it might influence those who are younger, 10-14 yrs or so, but once people start thinking for themselves, that influence tends to go out the window.

I watched young girls go crazy for NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys, and now, they feel like idiots for having done so. Heck, my wife went to see New Kids on the Block, twice! Things come and go, and I don’t think they stick around long enough to affect the way people think. Maybe a few weak minded individuals who can’t think for themselves, but the vast majority, not at all.

I wouldn’t mind going to a good blues club with Jesus. Being from the New Orleans area, though, I’m more partial to Jazz, so if you think He’d rock that with me, I’d be good to go.
 
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