Liturgical Dance-The Floor looked interesting today at the end of Mass

[Tomster]

I too often find myself admiring the floor

They have a beautiful floor at St. John Cantius in Chicago. Thank goodness I do not have to stare at it when I attend Holy Mass there.

 

[CatholicSam]

Sarabande;2108903:

I won’t clap before, during, or after mass either. If you are going to clap while sitting in front of an altar, you should be clapping for God. Problem is, God doesn’t need applause. That is what the Mass is for.

.

I feel the same way about clapping at Mass. The one exception might be if a priest is retiring or celebrating his 50th anniversary or something along those lines

As for the petitions, it was Divine Mercy Sunday, so “Merciful Jesus…” would be quite appropriate

 

[puzzleannie]

Before the end of Mass the parish that I attend had young girls performing a liturgical dance. I decided that I would look at the floor rather than watch. I"

you are more stoical than we were in a similar situation in a new parish, we just walked out and went to Mass in the next town, and never came back until the nuns who dreamed this schtick up were fired.

 

[barbfromtucson]

I’ve gone to a “Newman Center” here in Tucson. A few years ago, to get more guys involved with Liturgical Dancing, the priest that served as the Associate Pastor at the time, became part of the Liturgical Dancing group.

While I am more on the ‘liberal’ side, I personally do not like liturgical dancing, because of the fact that I have ADD and I find it very distracting.

–Barbara

 

[Ridgerunner]

It has been my perception that diocesan lefties all know each other and tend to have pretty hefty egos. (Everybody who says anything against the U.S. is always “prophetic”, for example.) I think they promote the egos of each other by tacit understanding. “I’ll call you prophetic this week, you give me an audience for my liturgical dance next week.”

I could be wrong about all that, but in my diocese, at least, there is so much ego-stroking that goes on among the “Professional Church People” that it hard for me to believe otherwise. Meanwhile, of course, the people who pray, pay and obey grit their teeth and take it.

 

[love4mary]

To re-ask the same question as jrnami asked,What exactly IS Liturgical Dance?

 

[kell0618]

Ugh. That’s all I can say.

On a lighter note, Stephen Colbert of The Colbert Report does an outstanding ‘spoof’ on liturgical dance. It is quite hilarious.

 

[kell0618]

To re-ask the same question as jrnami asked,What exactly IS Liturgical Dance?

It is varied as widely as abuses can vary, but one example would be a bunch of young girls dressed in white flowing robes going up and down the aisles during Mass and moving to the music while gesturing with long, wispy scarves…

If you go to youtube.com and search under liturgical dance, you will find plenty of protestant examples.

 

[lizaanne]

To re-ask the same question as jrnami asked,What exactly IS Liturgical Dance?

The experience I had was a woman in a long flowing white robe, barefoot, who danced in a very free flowing lyrical style, with an urn shaped bamboo thing which oozed incense smoke. She held it in both hands, and held it up and danced with it, all around the priest while he processed with the book of the Gospels, and down and back up the aisles between the pews. Think of how the baboon held up the baby lion in “The Lion King”, that’s how she held up the urn thing toward the priest while she danced.



~Liza

 

[Sarabande]

Sarabande;2108903:

However, I disagree with you on people walking up to you afterward and talking to you about what you were playing, and their appreciation of it. After all, the highest prayer is that of the priest on the altar as he says the Mass, and I have yet to attend a Mass where the parishioners didn’t shake Father’s hands and tell him how they appreciated his work. It’s only fitting that they should do the same for you.

I should have made myself more clear on my statement regarding people coming up after mass. Sorry. Although, I get very shy and embarrassed when that is done because I truly do not want to be praised for my talent and ability when I’m singing for a mass or ceremony, I don’t mind people personally coming up because many times it is because they are letting me know that they were spiritually inspired by the music and the musical interpretation. I’ve approached musicians to thank them, myself, after mass at different masses that I would attend, so I find nothing wrong with that.

When I said, “so they are kind of caught off guard and I guess don’t know how else to respond. It probably would be less if they heard it all the time and would realize that this is for prayer.” I meant about the clapping. I, unfortunately, did not edit my writing so everything I wrote came out as I was thinking it. Thank you for catching that.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

To re-ask the same question as jrnami asked,What exactly IS Liturgical Dance?

Look some Church’s have begun using dancers during the litery…the dancers can take many forms and vary from a few to many. They dance and prance around the Church and alter…completely distracting the congregation from the holy sacrifice. These people are not elevating the mass they are detracting from its solemnity. It is an abomination and forbidden by the Church.

Iowa Mike

 

[puzzleannie]

in my experience, mercifully limited, there is a prerequisite that the dancers exhibit little or no talent, substituting their own notions of graceful and appropriate movements for any recognized standard of dance. If they are tone deaf and lacking a sense of rhythm that will also add to the performance. Their garments should be constructed of sleazy fabric cut in unflattering fashion. In their defense I will note that they seem to have been dragooned into performing and the worst part of this scandal is that the older people in charge of them have suborned them into this display. Th

 

[ack]

Watch this video and cry… (the dance is about halfway through)

qdomine.com/Morality%20pages/lareledcongress06-1.htm

And this one:
closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/2006/04/dancing-and-prancing-mahony-style.html

To re-ask the same question as jrnami asked,What exactly IS Liturgical Dance?

 

[John_Hiner]

Here is an article that lays out the issues pretty well: Who’s Dancing in Church and Why?

Praising the Lord with dance is appropriate and (maybe) called for by the Psalms:

1: Praise the LORD! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty firmament!
2: Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his exceeding greatness!
3: Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp!
4: Praise him with timbrel and dance; praise him with strings and pipe!
5: Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals!
6: Let everything that breathes praise the LORD! Praise the LORD!

Psalm 150 (RSVCE).

(It is interesting to note, however, that the word translated here as “dance” is sometimes translated from the Latin “choro” as “choir.” See Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition. The Latin word is the root of both “choir” and “choreography.” The Greek Septuagint seems to have the same confluence of concepts. I would be interested to hear what the Hebrew versions say.)

One might have to temper this with the Book of Sirach, however: ““Use not much the company of her that is a dancer, and hearken not to her, lest thou perish by the force of her charms.” Sirach 9:4 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition.) (Of course other translators render “psaltrice” as “female singer.” See, Revised Standard Version, Catholic Edition.)

However appropriate as a form of praise, dance should not be included in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, in the Latin Rite. Just as a Rosary should not be said during Mass, because it distracts from praying the Mass itself. Sacred dance has its place outside of the Liturgy.

“Liturgical dance” therefore is a misnomer in the Latin Rite.

Pax Christi vobiscum.

John Hiner

 

[KathleenElsie]

I too often find myself admiring the floor

Me also. The worn spots of the carpet is becoming very familiar to me.:banghead:

 

[chevalier]

“It is something that people are introducing in the last ten years – or twenty years,” said Card. Arinze and that pretty much covers it. Wherever it’s culturally warranted, it’s beautiful. I have no problem with liturgical dance in Asian or African sceneries and it doesn’t ring wrong to me. But European or American (except native maybe)? Okay… perhaps if it’s a dance school or whatever, but we surely aren’t talking about the macarena or flamenco at the local parish for the kicks, eh. Why do people insist so much on “bizarrifying” (I’ve just invented the word) the liturgy?

Don’t get me wrong, we don’t have to be stiff stuck-ups and we don’t need to be mediaeval-style flagellants, either, but there are limits.

The way girls dress these days, I wonder if I’m in a Christian country or a Muslim one because it looks like I’ve strayed into the sultan’s harem sometimes. I guess the dance is just another such factor.

This said, dance is a valid expression of joy, it was done liturgically in the Old Testament times, so it’s not automatically and totally out of place. But it just seems to be a part of the whole thing with female altar servers, layman affirmation action in the liturgy and whatnot, that potentially leads to female “ordination” and gay “weddings” in the end.

Sometimes I really want to pray in Latin just for some balance.

Note, however, that spiritualities change. Maybe the modern generation experiences the links with God that way? I can’t get myself to do all the positions, moves and whatnot that seem to be associated with certain songs because it doesn’t really feel fitting, but for other people it does, and I can’t say it’s un-Christian anyway.

I wonder if, absent the desire to make the Church change on controversial theological positions or matters of discipline, the dance wouldn’t feel less bad, maybe even actually all right? Maybe it’s just the change-ism which is to be felt and which somehow subconsciously radiates from most of the modern inventions? After all, it’s not like dance is wrong or unconditionally inappropriate at mass, it’s the attitudes that give us a headache.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

in my experience, mercifully limited, there is a prerequisite that the dancers exhibit little or no talent, substituting their own notions of graceful and appropriate movements for any recognized standard of dance. If they are tone deaf and lacking a sense of rhythm that will also add to the performance. Their garments should be constructed of sleazy fabric cut in unflattering fashion. In their defense I will note that they seem to have been dragooned into performing and the worst part of this scandal is that the older people in charge of them have suborned them into this display. Th

Hey, this is a good description. I think maybe people that get surprised by these kind of tasteless dance liturgy might want to consider getting out of the pues and joining in. Ad my advanced age I probably could do a mean rendition of the Chicken dance, what do you think?

Iowa Mike

 

[down_under]

Jim,

These are abuses…I urge you to write him a letter and explain your disappointment at his behavior and ask him to stop it. If he doesn’t, I’d report him to the Bishop.

Iowa Mike

okay you are all fired up. great good stuff. I’m the ignorant fool who just has to ask and be told a factual answer. I realize of course that there is a good answer somewhere. Where does it state that liturgical dance is horrible. We had liturgical dance at the end of the mass on good friday or maybe it was easter vigil. anyway we have never seen anything like this before and so did not know what to say or do. of course given the other abuses at my church it is not so hard to see. our priests don’t even know who they are. They think the eucharist is the sacrement of love. With never any mention of the real presence. So if they dont know who they are or what the eucharist is then how can they understand the mass. anyone got the answer we would appreciate it very much.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

okay you are all fired up. great good stuff. I’m the ignorant fool who just has to ask and be told a factual answer. I realize of course that there is a good answer somewhere. Where does it state that liturgical dance is horrible. We had liturgical dance at the end of the mass on good friday or maybe it was easter vigil. anyway we have never seen anything like this before and so did not know what to say or do. of course given the other abuses at my church it is not so hard to see. our priests don’t even know who they are. They think the eucharist is the sacrement of love. With never any mention of the real presence. So if they dont know who they are or what the eucharist is then how can they understand the mass. anyone got the answer we would appreciate it very much.

down under,

Hey, I’m not fired up…I’m this way all the time. As Catholics we have both the right and obligation to speak out against these kinds of abuses. We can disagree without being disagreeable but we need to speak out (even though it is not very comfortable to do so). There are plenty of sources you can tap to help you prepare. There are goups in California trying to remove a priest says mass in a Barney costume. Other groups are trying to get rid of some pretty offensive liturgical dance stuff and so forth. You have brothers in arms, contact them by email, prepare and then go to your priest and ask him to help you understand what is going on. If he blows you off (and some liberal priests will do so) your choices are limited. You can go to your bishop and up the chain to report the abuses. You can join with others that want to stop these practices and bring pressure to bear on the priest.

Even though you may pay a price for speaking out, believe me it is worth it.

Keep the faith and keep up the good work.

Iowa Mike

 

[agapewolf]

Before I make my point, let me say, I completely agree that Liturgical dance does not belong in Mass. I’ve heard a Cardinal Arinze talk on it at a liturgy conference… I completely understand the elements of why it does not belong, and we should do what we can to speak up about it.

Here’s my point:…

Why look at the floor? Why not get something good out of it since you are there? You can’t do any good at the time, so maybe use it for prayer. People may say because it distracts our hurts the prayer…well, make a decision to turn it around. Instead of getting mad, think about where the people’s hearts are and try to see the joy they are expressing. This is no way “approves” of it.

I was at a Mass once before I studied liturgy and they had liturgical dance. It was very moving…to tears. I felt more engaged in the rest of the Mass. That doesn’t make it right, but it is possible to aid prayer.

Same thing with song choies you don’t like, or possibly other abuses. Most of the time, it comes from good intentions (I know thats not an excuse…it is still wrong). If we weren’t read up on the liturgical norms, we wouldn’t even know any better. I try to not let the actual deviation from the norm anger or distract me, but at the time that I’m sitting in mass, when I can’t do anythign about it, and there is Jesus showing up, I want to try to enter in as fully as possible.

Anyway, just a thought.