Liturgical Dance-The Floor looked interesting today at the end of Mass

[Iowa_Mike]

Before I make my point, let me say, I completely agree that Liturgical dance does not belong in Mass. I’ve heard a Cardinal Arinze talk on it at a liturgy conference… I completely understand the elements of why it does not belong, and we should do what we can to speak up about it.

Here’s my point:…

Why look at the floor? Why not get something good out of it since you are there? You can’t do any good at the time, so maybe use it for prayer. People may say because it distracts our hurts the prayer…well, make a decision to turn it around. Instead of getting mad, think about where the people’s hearts are and try to see the joy they are expressing. This is no way “approves” of it.

I was at a Mass once before I studied liturgy and they had liturgical dance. It was very moving…to tears. I felt more engaged in the rest of the Mass. That doesn’t make it right, but it is possible to aid prayer.

Same thing with song choies you don’t like, or possibly other abuses. Most of the time, it comes from good intentions (I know thats not an excuse…it is still wrong). If we weren’t read up on the liturgical norms, we wouldn’t even know any better. I try to not let the actual deviation from the norm anger or distract me, but at the time that I’m sitting in mass, when I can’t do anythign about it, and there is Jesus showing up, I want to try to enter in as fully as possible.

Anyway, just a thought.

Agapefoot,

I completely understand your point. Many of these things are being put into the liturgy with the best of intentions. However the main reason these activities are not allowed is because they detract from the solemnity of the mass. Not one single person should have to look at the floor or be otherwise distracted by dancing, inappropriate music or plays etc. while at mass. Maybe the intentions of those promoting these kind of liturgical abuses are good, the results are not. To look other way and tolerate these abuses is to give them tacit approval. Think of the children, teens and other impressionable people sitting in the congregation that get might the idea that this is OK. I don’t want my grandchildren exposed to this kind of liturgy.

We need to stand tall as Catholics and let the priests and liturgical committee know that this is not acceptable.

Iowa Mike

 

[agapewolf]

Agapefoot,

I completely understand your point. Many of these things are being put into the liturgy with the best of intentions. However the main reason these activities are not allowed is because they detract from the solemnity of the mass. Not one single person should have to look at the floor or be otherwise distracted by dancing, inappropriate music or plays etc. while at mass. Maybe the intentions of those promoting these kind of liturgical abuses are good, the results are not. To look other way and tolerate these abuses is to give them tacit approval. Think of the children, teens and other impressionable people sitting in the congregation that get might the idea that this is OK. I don’t want my grandchildren exposed to this kind of liturgy.

We need to stand tall as Catholics and let the priests and liturgical committee know that this is not acceptable.

Iowa Mike

its agapewolf

Please re-read my post again. You are rebutting something I had actually said. We should do our best to speak up about them.

but in THE MIDDLE OF MASS…we cannot do something then. That is what my suggestion was for…nothing more.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

its agapewolf

Please re-read my post again. You are rebutting something I had actually said. We should do our best to speak up about them.

but in THE MIDDLE OF MASS…we cannot do something then. That is what my suggestion was for…nothing more.

Hey, we are all part of a big captive audience when at mass and can’t do anything about it at the time…sorry for rebutting your statement.

Iowa Mike

 

[down_under]

down under,

Hey, I’m not fired up…I’m this way all the time. As Catholics we have both the right and obligation to speak out against these kinds of abuses. We can disagree without being disagreeable but we need to speak out (even though it is not very comfortable to do so). There are plenty of sources you can tap to help you prepare. There are goups in California trying to remove a priest says mass in a Barney costume. Other groups are trying to get rid of some pretty offensive liturgical dance stuff and so forth. You have brothers in arms, contact them by email, prepare and then go to your priest and ask him to help you understand what is going on. If he blows you off (and some liberal priests will do so) your choices are limited. You can go to your bishop and up the chain to report the abuses. You can join with others that want to stop these practices and bring pressure to bear on the priest.

Even though you may pay a price for speaking out, believe me it is worth it.

Keep the faith and keep up the good work.

Iowa Mike

that is good and all but before I can contact anyone I need facts. I need to be able to point to an athortative source and say this is where it says that liurgical dance is bopgiz. on page # x paragraph Y of this document. It would be like not looking up the collar norms before I ask him why he does not where one. I sort of have to be able to say where someone actually says the thing so that when he decides to explain his side to justify the thing I can say but what about this.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

that is good and all but before I can contact anyone I need facts. I need to be able to point to an athortative source and say this is where it says that liurgical dance is bopgiz. on page # x paragraph Y of this document. It would be like not looking up the collar norms before I ask him why he does not where one. I sort of have to be able to say where someone actually says the thing so that when he decides to explain his side to justify the thing I can say but what about this.

I agree. I suggest you sit down and write a narrative about what happened is as much detail as you can. I lifed the following link off another post in this thread.

adoremus.org/Dance.html

I think you will find a pretty decent summary about the problems with liturgical dance and a few other places you can go to get more information. Put the facts you gather together with your narrative go see your priest for a discussion.

Thanks for fighting the good fight.

Iowa Mike

 

[mommyof4]

I live in Lincoln and will be moving to Omaha after I get married this September. Could you post or PM me with some good churches in the area? Also, which ones should I avoid?

I really like St. Bernadette down there, in Bellevue.

 

[blackrobe]

Don’t get me wrong, we don’t have to be stiff stuck-ups and we don’t need to be mediaeval-style flagellants, either, but there are limits.

Yes, and the limits are set exclusively by the Magisterium.

This said, dance is a valid expression of joy, it was done **liturgically **in the Old Testament times,.

Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

JSA+

 

[love4mary]

Oh My Goodness

After viewing those video’s on liturgical dance,it would take a supreme act of will for me to stay in my pew. Come to think of it, I would NOT stay.

 

[Hesychios]

I saw liturgical dance once in a Roman Catholic parish, and I thought it was very nicely done.

Yes, I was surprised…shocked actually…at first.

Well, it was nice anyway

Michael

 

[Dirk_Skene]

I saw liturgical dance once in a Roman Catholic parish, and I thought it was very nicely done.

Yes, I was surprised…shocked actually…at first.

Well, it was nice anyway

Michael

I have no doubt it was artisticly done. But it is not proper to our rite. The closest thing I can think of would be cartoons played on a T.V. during an Orthodox service. It just is not proper.

 

[Windmill]

I also refused to applaud at the end. How could I applaud for something that I know is not allowed?

Pope Benedict XVI (as Cardinal Ratzinger) wrote:

*“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.”

 

[Iowa_Mike]

I saw liturgical dance once in a Roman Catholic parish, and I thought it was very nicely done.

Yes, I was surprised…shocked actually…at first.

Well, it was nice anyway

Michael

Hesychios,

Why not a juggler?

Iowa Mike

 

[THurifer2]

I never understood liturgical dance. It is obviously entertainment. Otherwise if it were not then the whole congregation should do it.

BAD IDEA nevermind

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I really like St. Bernadette down there, in Bellevue.

St. Peter’s downtown is a great parish – very orthodox. So is the cathedral most of the time.

 

[Chovy]

St. Thomas More follows the order of the Mass also. Generally, in Omaha, the further west you go, the less the Mass resembles the Mass. (until you get to Lincoln that is!). I would be really curious to know which parish had liturgical dance in Omaha.

Since being in PA, my husband has several times mentioned that these priests need a little “Kizito” in them. Fr. Kizito is one of the priests over at St. Thomas More.

I wish that parishes would just offer us the richness of the Mass. Why can’t they see that the beauty of what’s being offered supercedes any sort of “entertainment” they may try “enhance” it with.

 

[krazykatlady]

Pope Benedict XVI (as Cardinal Ratzinger) wrote:

*“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.”

In my parish not only does applause break out but some people hoot and whistle. Honestly, it’s enough to make me run in the other direction and never come back.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Pope Benedict XVI (as Cardinal Ratzinger) wrote:

*“Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.”

I couldn’t agree more. Applause during Mass should never happen, nor dance, nor instrumental or solo music ‘performances’, nor plays, nor any activity that detracts from the solemnity of the Mass.

Let me as your opinion on this: The liturgy celebrating the 1st Communion of 28 second graders concluded with the children singing a religious song (at the foot of the alter). When the song was over, the congregation clapped for the children, the recessional hymn then started and the children, priest et al processed out of the Church.

Do you think that is objectionable as well?

Iowa Mike

 

[scylla]

They had this abomination at my parish last week, thank God I wasn’t there. I was out of town at another parish which was beautiful.

The pastor at this parish said the Mass reverently, all I could do was focus on Jesus and the worshipping Him. I didn’t get distracted by the any silliness, gay guys prancing around and such, or even small abuses; and not only that the good priest actually preached about repentance and confession. I am glad I was able to contribute to their parish fund and was able to give my contribution to this faithful priests parish instead of mine, which incidently doesn’t have a parish priest but a pastoral coordinator, who needs prayers try and be faithful.
She might be a faithful Catholic inside, but outside she sure teaches a lot of stuff against the faith.

We are supposed to give our best to God and our best is fidelity. To substitute or give less is the same as what Cain did which is why Abel was preferred.

To seek our own desires and allow abuses such as Liturgical Dancing is wrong as it is seeking man’s pleasure instead of fidelity to how we are supposed to obey.

Obedience, regardless of how dissidents complain of rubricism or rigidness is the seeking of God’s will. It might be rigid but I would much rather seek the narrow road than the broad one, we know where that leads.

It might be easier to just let things go, but as Catholics we should stand up for truth and fidelity.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[KathleenElsie]

I couldn’t agree more. Applause during Mass should never happen, nor dance, nor instrumental or solo music ‘performances’, nor plays, nor any activity that detracts from the solemnity of the Mass.

Let me as your opinion on this: The liturgy celebrating the 1st Communion of 28 second graders concluded with the children singing a religious song (at the foot of the alter). When the song was over, the congregation clapped for the children, the recessional hymn then started and the children, priest et al processed out of the Church.

Do you think that is objectionable as well?

Iowa Mike

We had the clapping just prior to the recessional hymn. When our boys get their Boy Scout religious medals it also happens just prior to the recession. It seems more appropriate at that time if at all.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

We had the clapping just prior to the recessional hymn. When our boys get their Boy Scout religious medals it also happens just prior to the recession. It seems more appropriate at that time if at all.

Good, I think we agree.

Iowa Mike