Liturgical Music Borderline Sacrilegious????

[Neil_Anthony]

PS-I am a teenager and have many devout Catholic friends who understand that liturgical music should be reverent…they are not desperate for all this ‘hip’ knock off Catholic-esque Mass music that pops up during Lifeteen Mass.

It’s really encouraging to hear this, emmaberry! I was wondering if perhaps teens would only go to mass if the hymns were based on rock songs! I hope you remind the priest or someone that adults trying to attract teens to church by being cool isn’t really a good thing at all

 

[TheMc]

It’s really encouraging to hear this, emmaberry! I was wondering if perhaps teens would only go to mass if the hymns were based on rock songs! I hope you remind the priest or someone that adults trying to attract teens to church by being cool isn’t really a good thing at all

Don’t forget, there’s a lot of knowledgeable teens on here who feel the same way (including myself).

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Don’t forget, there’s a lot of knowledgeable teens on here who feel the same way (including myself).

I’m really glad. While I wanted to try to see the good in whoever composed that ‘hymn’, I’m really happy that this isn’t what teens actually want!

 

[FAB]

Hello,
at 5pm Sunday Mass yesterday we had a visiting music minister, as we have been in between music leaders for a while. My parents and I were completely shocked to hear the tune of Another One Bites the Dust adapted for the Gospel ‘Allelulia Antiphon.’ My mother and I could not hold in our laughter. It was completely outrageous and a distraction like no other! This ‘modern take’ on liturgical music continued for most of the mass, excluding the intro and exit hymns.

The mass went like this:
Allelulia-Another One Bites the Dust by Queen
Eucharistic Prayer-Creep by Radiohead
Sanctus- We Are the Champions by Queen
1st Communion Song-Eye In the Sky by Alan Parson
2nd Communion Song-Twist & Shout by The Beatles

the words were changed but the track/instrumental was the same, with surging electronic drumbeats. My whole family was outraged, and my dad found the music borderline sacrilegious. The visiting music guy that led this has applied for our parish’s permanent music minister position. Should my family complain to the priest? To the Bishop?
Do you find this ‘music’ sacrilegious or just progressive?

I just feel bad for any visitors that were attending our parish!

So what were the new words? If they are appropriate then the only objection is the tune.

 

[mamaslo]

To be honest, nothing about this situation should be lauded.

Sorry, not really. The most important part of providing the music for Mass is filling the musical demands of the roman rite. Singing these things does not. Singing random hymns does not.

Thinking that liturgical music is about "giving people what they ‘need’ " is how we got into this awful mess in the first place.

If you do, make sure you study at least a little bit about the actual musical demands of the roman rite, not people’s preferences.

Me thinks you did not really read my post but took quotes out of context.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

So what were the new words? If they are appropriate then the only objection is the tune.

Hopefully one thing everyone agrees, irrespective of which end of the spectrum you might occupy on this subject, is text used in the Mass should only be approved text from the Missal.

With text selection held to that standard (as the Church has definitively spoken on that subject), the concern of many is the exercise of reasonable, due discretion over the selection of appropriate melodies to which such liturgical text should be set and rendered.

And yes, such discretion is inherently subjective, hence the lively exchange in this thread.

It would seem that those on the more conservative end of the spectrum believe that appropriate and definitive guidance should come from the Church on this matter, which would bound such discretion to norms that are universally accepted.

 

[emmaberry]

So what were the new words? If they are appropriate then the only objection is the tune.

The words were the appropriate words for that part of the mass: AKA the allelulia, sanctus, etc all had the traditional words/responses as they are listed in the Missal. The words were not the problem, although it was hard toe even focus on the words when you had the really popular music playing!

 

[Barbkw]

I’m not reading through the 4 pages.

However, when people here are saying, “Talk to your priest” where was the priest when this music was being played.

Asleep in the presider’s chair.

Very difficult not to recognize the tune to “Another One Bites the Dust, Wa Wa”.

 

[emmaberry]

emmaberry: It’s really great to hear that some of the legacy of Blessed John Paul II’s outreach to our youth lives on, even with those like yourself who were likely barely (if at all) exposed to him personally before he was called to eternal rest.

I know! I am continually amazed by Blessed John Paul II and his legacy. He made everyone feel like they KNEW him-it is amazing! Some people just have a very special presence. Even for people like me who were not even Catholic during his papacy, somehow I still feel like I know him! I know my whole family kicks ourselves for not entering the Church a couple years earlier.

When I went to Rome with my school we were lucky to have an alumni working as a tour guide at the Vatican. She took us down under St. Peter’s Basilica to see Peter’s bones and Blessed John Paul II’s tomb. At this time I was a very new Catholic and, honestly, hardly knew who John Paul II even was-but the way Catholics were behaving at his tomb I knew he was something special! truly a great Pope. We are so lucky to have had one of the greatest popes in power during our generation (even if we narrowly missed him!)

 

[FAB]

The words were the appropriate words for that part of the mass: AKA the allelulia, sanctus, etc all had the traditional words/responses as they are listed in the Missal. The words were not the problem, although it was hard toe even focus on the words when you had the really popular music playing!

Then the only issue is the style of music.
Being a liturgist and musician it is sounds like an interesting concept. I don’t see it arrising to a herisy. I would say it falls into the catigory of a polka mass. In other countries the parts of the mass are done with what ever music is traditonal for that country.
Music in a mass is always very subjected. It is to be a way to lift people spiritually and compliment worship. That was not waht happened in your case.
The question then would be, did the others in attendance, outside your family seem to be disturbed by the style or selection of music?

 

[Bonnie]

I’m wondering about the copyright. Did the person who wrote the new words get the permission of the copyright holder?

 

[agapewolf]

I’m wondering about the copyright. Did the person who wrote the new words get the permission of the copyright holder?

I believe you only need permission if recording or broadcasting it.

(To be clear: Im not supporting the idea in any way).

 

[emmaberry]

The question then would be, did the others in attendance, outside your family seem to be disturbed by the style or selection of music?

Yes! I wondered that too but after Mass people were, honestly, gossiping outside church about music. They seemed to be especially bewildered by Queen…

 

[Bonnie]

I believe you only need permission if recording or broadcasting it.

(To be clear: Im not supporting the idea in any way).

I could be wrong - I write, but not music - but I think the copyright includes copying (by hand, Xeroxing, whatever) the sheet music. I remember the choir director of a previous parish had to get permission to Xerox copies of a particular mass setting. He told us to be extra careful with the copies because he had permission for a limited number of copies.

 

[agapewolf]

I could be wrong - I write, but not music - but I think the copyright includes copying (by hand, Xeroxing, whatever) the sheet music. I remember the choir director of a previous parish had to get permission to Xerox copies of a particular mass setting. He told us to be extra careful with the copies because he had permission for a limited number of copies.

yes, that is true. But that isn’t what is being talked about here.

 

[Bonnie]

yes, that is true. But that isn’t what is being talked about here.

My point is that if the music was illegally copied, it shouldn’t be performed - period. Whether or not it is liturgically correct is, I agree, another question. And wouldn’t be brought up if the music was copied without permission.

If I were a musician, I would not be happy about people putting new words to my music.

 

[TheMc]

Then the only issue is the style of music.
Being a liturgist and musician it is sounds like an interesting concept. I don’t see it arrising to a herisy. I would say it falls into the catigory of a polka mass. In other countries the parts of the mass are done with what ever music is traditonal for that country.
Music in a mass is always very subjected. It is to be a way to lift people spiritually and compliment worship. That was not waht happened in your case.
The question then would be, did the others in attendance, outside your family seem to be disturbed by the style or selection of music?

I’m sorry, the music at Mass is not a “very subjective” (I assume this is what you meant) matter. The music at Mass is part of the ceremonies and demands of the liturgy, and just as you wouldn’t adapt other parts of the Mass to “lift people up,” the same should not be done with music.

 

[agapewolf]

My point is that if the music was illegally copied, it shouldn’t be performed - period. Whether or not it is liturgically correct is, I agree, another question. And wouldn’t be brought up if the music was copied without permission.

If I were a musician, I would not be happy about people putting new words to my music.

Performance of it has nothing to do with illegal copying. The illegal copying is itself illegal…whether performed or not. They are too completely separate and unrelated issues. One can play a song by ear and not copy one thing. We don’t know it was illegally copied…that’s not an issue anyway. I make my own chord charts by listening…no copying done anyway. It is unlikely that someone who did this would use an actual copy of musical notation anyway.

There are many many many pop songs that are redone, parodied, and changed with permission all the time (as they are recorded). Many times pop songs are redone with Christian lyrics.

I know many musician friends (as well as me) who would be fine with someone changing words to their songs to aid in the singing of the congregation.

The whole point is a non-issue regarding this.

 

[FAB]

Yes! I wondered that too but after Mass people were, honestly, gossiping outside church about music. They seemed to be especially bewildered by Queen…

Then the music didn’t serve the purpose it was meant to and the music and liturgy director need to re-examine the issue.

 

[FAB]

I’m sorry, the music at Mass is not a “very subjective” (I assume this is what you meant) matter. The music at Mass is part of the ceremonies and demands of the liturgy, and just as you wouldn’t adapt other parts of the Mass to “lift people up,” the same should not be done with music.

I agree, that’s why I asked about the reaction from the others in attendance.
Perhaps it would be appropriate with a bunch of old rockers.