Liturgical Pet Peeves

[tee_eff_em]

S_Corda:

Unless you are the owner of stalphonsusrock.org/, or have permission from them, you are stealing bandwidth by posting their picture in the way that you did. Everytime someone loads this forum page, it uses some of that site’s bandwith and can be considered theft.

I don’t know that I’d call it “stealing bandwidth”, but the way these fora link images is unfortunate. What if the source of the image is changed to something else by the owner? It could be something orthodox or something pornographic!?

I think I’ll go post something in the comments&questions forum – It would certainly be much more reliable if CA forums would download and store such images.

(In the meantime, if you are worried about s"stealing bandwidth" you can always turn off images in your profile settings, then they will just display as URLs)

 

[Ray_Marshall]

Couples who can’t keep their hands off of each other during Mass. Especially when I’m behind them.

Altar servers in BIG tennis shoes.

Lectors and EMs who dress like it is a picnic.

 

[LindaS]

My biggest peeve is people who dress like they’re on the beach or on a farm. Whatever happened to dressing appropriately??!!
Shorts, tank, or halter, tops, and jeans have no place at Mass. Would they dress that way if they were invited to the White House for a dinner? I doubt it. So why would they dress that way when they are invited to the greatest banquet of all?

Peace,
Linda

 

[JCPhoenix]

BrianDay:

Laity in the Orans position
Armies of EMHC’s that show little/no reverence (in action and/or dress)

I’ve seen this come up twice. What is the “Orans position”?

And waht is EMHC’s?

 

[JCPhoenix]

ShamHy89:

I totally agree with you. This has really taken hold in my parish and I am often “forced” to hold a person’s hand when reciting it (out of generosity to my neighbor thrusting their hand at me). I find it more a distraction and disrespectful, especially in such a monumentous prayer!

Shamus

In the church I now attend, I notice families holding hands (I found this distracting within my own family), but I can still understand it. But I agree, among the larger congregation, it made me very uncomfortable. It’s not the Lord’s prayer that unites us in the Body of Christ, it’s Communion.

 

[jturnbull]

1. Hand holding during the Our Father.

1. Laity standing in the orans posture.
2. When the priest asks people in the pews to shout out their own intentions (weekday mass). This drives me bonkers!
3. The dreadful music ministry in my parish. You’d have to hear it to believe it, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
4. Priest changing the words of prayers, especially the Eucharistic Prayers. I think this more than anything annoys me.

 

[a_pilgrim]

JCPhoenix:

I’ve seen this come up twice. What is the “Orans position”?

And what is EMHC’s?

Hi, JCP!

“Orans” refers to the prayer posture wherein the hands are outstretched to the individual’s sides (or slightly forward), palms turned upward, as opposed to being folded in front of the individual. It’s a common posture for a Latin Rite priest to assume during various parts of the Mass.

“EMHC” stands for “Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion,” the Church-approved term for those lay people who help distribute Holy Communion at the Latin Rite Mass.

a pilgrim

 

[jturnbull]

You should hear what we have in our Parish at one of the Masses, bongo drums or something like that,a some kind of a string instrument and for the Nicene Creed words cant describe it, Its really sounds silly, thank God my hearing isnt what it used to be!

 

[JCPhoenix]

a pilgrim:

Hi, JCP!

“Orans” refers to the prayer posture wherein the hands are outstretched to the individual’s sides (or slightly forward), palms turned upward, as opposed to being folded in front of the individual. It’s a common posture for a Latin Rite priest to assume during various parts of the Mass.

“EMHC” stands for “Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion,” the Church-approved term for those lay people who help distribute Holy Communion at the Latin Rite Mass.

a pilgrim

Thanks! I really should have known that, being a cradle Catholic…but then again, that’s why I began to research the Faith on my own anyhow!

 

[S_Corda]

tee_eff_em:

A *liturgical * abuse…!? :ehh:

Oops. Sorry. (look of embarassment here)
I guess I just wanted to put down one simple pet peeve before going on to the rest of my reply.

It does fit in with the first message on this topic though (gum chewing, loud talking, etc. )

 

[swampfox]

ShamHy89:

I totally agree with you. This has really taken hold in my parish and I am often “forced” to hold a person’s hand when reciting it (out of generosity to my neighbor thrusting their hand at me). I find it more a distraction and disrespectful, especially in such a monumentous prayer!

Shamus

Don’t do it–you are not “forced” to hold hands–Be not afraid and politely decline

 

[swampfox]

Regarding the clown masses, I believe they are common in the new revised Episcopal Church–I hadn’t heard of them in a real Catholic Church, but given some of the behavior of the clergy over the last few decades, I shouldn’t be surprised at these jokers

 

[misericordie]

:nope: This is the thread I personally enjoyed most. Why? Well, because the great pictures here SHOW what horrors are commited in order to make people FEEL good. If I saw personally a clown come into Mass like these here, I would walk out in protest shaking my head like the little smiley above in blue. These type of pictures together with the location, and name of the parish should not only be sent to the local Bishop(if he even cares) and ESPECIALLY to the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (Cardinal Arinze’s Department). What a true disgrace these liturgical abuses are:whacky: . If I was Bishop in that diocese i would SUMMON the pastor of those parishes to my office, and they would have to explain. If they were to refuse to STOP having those so called clown masses, i would take his priestly faculties away immediately for disobedience:clapping: .

 Another common liturgical abuse is the vestments or lack of which the priest is suppossed to use for the Mass.  Many would use the cheap excuse that it is TOO warm to use a Chausable, or the Cincture is old fasioned, or the Amice is no longer used (a lie if i ever heard one), or one pet-peeve of mine is the priest celebrating Mass only with the Alb, and Stole over the Alb.  I just think it is plain old laziness.  Or sloppiness.   What about the opinion some have that the stole is to go OVER the Chausable?   What Liturgy teacher did those who hold this opinion have in the seminary?   Thank God the Vatican's LATEST document(Cardinal Arinze) DOES mention all this.:bowdown:

What about the FEMINIST agenda of liturgical dancers: in sexy garb, and barefoot? What are they for, to distract people AWAY from their focus on the Mass, and to the BODIES of these liturgical dancers? I wonder WHERE??? In the V.II Documents this is mentioned? Were liturgical dancers or clown Masses mentioned by Pope John the XXIII? OR Pope Paul VI at the end of the council? NOT.

 

[Aurelia]

One more pet peeve I forgot to mention: really, really ugly modern church buildings.
How is a plain brick wall supposed to lift your mind and spirit to God?

 

[tee_eff_em]

S_Corda:

Oops. Sorry. (look of embarassment here)
I guess I just wanted to put down one simple pet peeve before going on to the rest of my reply.

It does fit in with the first message on this topic though (gum chewing, loud talking, etc. )

No problem, but I’d ask everyone to be more forgiving of “loud babies” – They can’t control themselves, nor are their parents always able to control them, but that’s no reason to begrudge the graces of the sacrament to the babies or the parents.

(gum-chewers and loud talkers, on the other hand…)

 

[Ham1]

: Another common liturgical abuse is the vestments or lack of which the priest is suppossed to use for the Mass. Many would use the cheap excuse that it is TOO warm to use a Chausable, or the Cincture is old fasioned, or the Amice is no longer used (a lie if i ever heard one), or one pet-peeve of mine is the priest celebrating Mass only with the Alb, and Stole over the Alb. I just think it is plain old laziness. Or sloppiness. What about the opinion some have that the stole is to go OVER the Chausable? What Liturgy teacher did those who hold this opinion have in the seminary? Thank God the Vatican’s LATEST document(Cardinal Arinze) DOES mention all this.:bowdown:

Not to nitpick, but hey what are forums for?

The cincture is not always required. It depends on the design of the alb. Likewise, the amice is not required either.

You are correct (and wholeheartedly agree!) that the alb, stole and chasuble are not to be omitted or worn out of order.

Hey, along these lines, does anyone out there have a deacon who consistently wears the dalmatic and not just the alb and stole? Ours has on a couple of feast days but ordinarily omits it.

 

[catholiclady]

The priest putting the host on a napkin on the corner of the piano for the Music Director to pick up and self serve at his convenience (why not just place it on his tongue, that would not interrupt the piano playing)

Immodest dress

Applauding

Liturgical dancing

Hand holding by the congregation during Our Father (in one large chain not just with immediate family)

Priest holding hands with altar servers during Our Father

People who use the time allocated for the kiss of peace to visit friends all over the place - waving and shouting greetings, etc.

Priest changing words of Eucharistic Prayer and other portions of the liturgy

People not genuflection or bowing as prescribed (even the priests sometimes)

EMHC’s who don’t seem to know how to serve communion on the tongue.

Too many people on the altar.

Allowing lay persons to give some sort of talk or pitch instead of having the homily.

Skipping any part of the Mass because of time constraints.

Having the teens gather round the altar, arms locked swaying back and forth (Life teen masses) during the consecration

Priests inviting people to say the doxology with him

Tropes during the Agnus Dei

Chatter, chatter and more chatter

Wiggling, giggling altar servers

Priest breakin the Host at consecration rather than at fraction

Inclusive language

Blue Vestments during Advent

The Risen Christ behind the altar instead of a Crucifix

Hand clapping, finger snapping, foot stomping hymns

Guess that about does it:wave:

 

[ktm]

Aurelia:

One more pet peeve I forgot to mention: really, really ugly modern church buildings.
How is a plain brick wall supposed to lift your mind and spirit to God?

I second this. The church in my parish was originally built as a detacted auditorium (for a school I think). Needless to say it has the most uninspiring architecture of any of the churches around here. When it was “upgraded” to conform to Vatican II (supposedly) the first thing to go, of course, was the tabernacle, which is now in an alcove off to the side…arggghhhh

 

[DaveBj]

2. Laity standing in the orans posture.

What’s wrong with that?

“I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting…” St. Paul, 1 Tim. 2:8

Are the laity presumed not to have holy hands?

DaveBj

 

[catholiclady]

You ask what is wrong with the people praying in the Orans position.

This is a gesture prescribed for the priest and the lay people are not to imitate him. The liturgical use of this position by the priest is spelled out in the rubrics (the laws governing ow the Mass is said). It indicates his praying on behalf of us. Acting as alter Christus.

In private prayer you can use this position but not at Mass.

The priest, at Mass, is the pastor of the flock (us) and head of the body. It used to be well spelled out but now only says that the priest “extends his hands” or references “with hands extended.”

We hope he understands what this means from his training and observation (though I see some holding hands with people on the altar during the Our Father instead of following the rubics, so one must wonder about that too)

This rubic (orans gesture) is usually for only the main Celebrant but on some occasions, such as during Eucharistic prayer, all the concelebrants do it (priests, bishops) but never is it to be done by the Deacon because he does not represent the people before God but assists him who does. The laity are not to do it.

How it came about that some of the laity started doing this has been suggested to have begun with the Charismatic movement as a way they prayed in private prayer or prayer not associated with the Mass and was copied by others just as hand holding during the Our Father began with the laity and was soon copied by others - even by priests who should be using the Orans position.

It is recognized by the Vatican that there is much confusion in the gestures used in the liturgy and about the hierachial nature of worship and we must recognize that we are not priests but laity.

I hope that answered your question.