Living Mystics?

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As others have commented, we are all called to Divine Union.

In addition to what others have said about what a “mystic” is, I think it is not a yes/no question, but more like a progress report. “Mystical theology” is the science of love, so I believe that it isn’t whether I am a mystic or not, but how much progress have I made in the mystical realm. So my thoughts about being a mystic are more quantitative than qualitative – it’s a matter of degree.

There is nothing stopping any of us, except our own limitations of faith and believing – as formed in large part by our societal upbringing – and lack of sound spiritual advice, from enjoying unconditional peace and joy. We must break all the strongholds in our minds that have been erected by the training the world gives, and replace it with the teachings of Christ.

It isn’t about being a “good” person. It’s about learning to accept the gifts and teachings of Jesus, and a willingness to allow our preconceived notions that keep us from accepting them, to be destroyed.

Am I a mystic? I don’t know whether the definition would apply, but I can tell you this. I’ve had many problems since I lost my job with a large family to feed amid severe bipolar disorder (yes, lots of runaway emotions) and financial crises and our house burning down, etc. well you get the point. I’ve had “excuses” to have emotional problems, but the Lord has given me true healing through his teachings and his children which have either wittingly or unwittingly helped guide me on my way. Now I’m not troubled by emotions at all. Now when challenged with troubling circumstances I don’t feel anxiety like I used to, or inordinate fear. Concern and desire to make improvements in the future, but no fear, anxiety, depression, etc.

So back to the question, am I a mystic? My answer is this; try me. If you want to run some ideas by me and see if my comments are helpful to you, then you can decide whether my advice is worth anything. If it is, and you wish to consider me a “mystic,” then so be it. If you think I’m just a guy who has been through a few ups and down and has learned a bit about having peace amid storms and likes to talk about it, then don’t worry about giving me a label. I’m here for you and others, to the extent I can be, and I’m delighted to share my own thoughts and experience about joy and peace as much as I can – because after all, we all get it from the same Source.

Alan
 
You asked about modern-day “mystics,” and I think it’s important to ask what you meant by the term “mystic.”

Many monasteries and many Christians outside monasteries practice contemplative forms of prayer. It is not necessarily the case that most people who do so experience ecstacies, visions, prophecy or other such phenomena, but most would agree with St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross that such phenomena have little to do with the value or depth of such prayer. “Come Be My Light,” which provides excerpts from Mother Teresa of Calcutta’s diaries and some commentary, describes a single important mystical experience that she had that set her on the path to working with the poorest of the poor and forming the Missionaries of Charity, followed by many decades of dry, even afflictive prayer, apparently without a lot of the phenomena you might associate with mystical prayer.St. Therese of Lisieux seemed to have very little of such phenomena in her prayer either, but the depth of her contemplative prayer easily qualifies her as a “mystic” in the broader sense.

Nonetheless, there are people in every generation who experience ecstacies, visions, prophecy, etc. If that’s what you mean by “mystic,” such people are fewer in number, perhaps, but some become well-known. In the 20th century, you might list Padre Pio and Fr. Solanus Casey (both now deceased) as two examples. There are good books available on both of these modern-day mystics.
 
puzzleannie said:
their gift is infused contemplation, intimate union with Christ in prayer which by its nature is a private thing. what is to share? if they are also called as spiritual directors, like Juan de la Cruz and Teresa, they will serve in that way, but probably without boasting of their mysticism
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I have to agree with you and happily thank Our gracious Lord for giving my wife and I the guidance of coverage over us to serve the youth at risk in our land. It is so good to have covorage to guide us. the management pray over and for us each day and there are so many miricals and youth coming that questians are asked why? But we know, it is Our Lords way and will. Not ours we are the servants who don’t know what is happening at times. But still that does not matter since we are here to serve not to lead.
god bless
littleone
 
Alan55 said:
Many monasteries and many Christians outside monasteries practice contemplative forms of prayer. It is not necessarily the case that most people who do so experience ecstacies, visions, prophecy or other such phenomena, but most would agree with St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross that such phenomena have little to do with the value or depth of such prayer.
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That is good information. The contemplative movement is growing. I was so fortunate to be guided into contemplative prayer forms, as it has been an important part of the healing I’ve received from the Lord.

It also occurs to me that (I heard that) Vatican II made it clear that holiness (mysticism, divine union, etc.) is available to ALL the faithful, not just the religious. 🙂

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita said:
That is good information. The contemplative movement is growing. I was so fortunate to be guided into contemplative prayer forms, as it has been an important part of the healing I’ve received from the Lord.

It also occurs to me that (I heard that) Vatican II made it clear that holiness (mysticism, divine union, etc.) is available to ALL the faithful, not just the religious. 🙂

Alan
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Alan, do you mind PMing me with some online sources on Contemplative prayer? This may be something I want to explore during Lent. God bless!
 
I think Our Blessed Mother is a great example for this 🙂

she could have done all kinds of miracles, being full of grace, but she lived a very hidden life because that was God’s will for her
 
In trying to answer the question of what exactly a mystic is, the book by the recently deceased Fr Thomas Dubay, “Fire Within,” may be helpful.

Fr Dubay reflects on the teachings of St Teresa of Avila and St John of the Cross as they relate to the Gospels, and clearly points out that the teachings on contemplative prayer from these two Carmelite saints and Doctors of the Church are really no different from what Jesus Himself teaches in the Gospels, and that contrary to what many people think, there is no two-tiered approach to prayer, that is, that some are called to contemplation and others not. ALL are called. The reason why many, if not most, do not attain the heights of contemplation is not because the possibility does not exist; it is because they do not answer the call, or only answer it insofar as they may continue to remain in their comfort zones. An illustration of this is found in the Parable of the Sower and the Seed: only those who persevere will achieve the bearing of fruit thirty-, sixty- and a hundredfold. Or, in the words of Teresa, in order to reach this goal, the soul must have muy determinada determinacion:

“They must have a great and very resolute determination to persevere until reaching the end, come what may, happen what may, whatever work is involved, whatever criticism arises, whether they arrive or whether they die on the road, or even if they don’t have the courage for the trials that are met, or if the whole world collapses.” *

Living mystics? There is nothing to prevent any of us from becoming living mystics ourselves. In fact, it is the Gospel call, and is not reserved only for the John Boscos, Padre Pios and Gemma Galganis of this world.

It is true that many are called but few are chosen. But could it be that the chosen are only those who are both willing and determined to answer the universal call of the Gospel?
  • “The Way of Perfection” Chapter 21, Paragraph 2
 
What about Father Zlatko Sudac? I have to admit I know nothing about him, but I remember about ten years ago he came to our church and many in the parish had good things to say about him.

All I remember is that he has the stigmata on his forehead, a cross that bleeds.
 
DJgang said:
Alan, do you mind PMing me with some online sources on Contemplative prayer? This may be something I want to explore during Lent. God bless!
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Sorry for the late reply. As a general introduction to contemplative prayer, I recommend the wonderful book by Fr. Thomas Green, S.J. entitled “When the Well Runs Dry: Prayer Beyond the Beginnings.” It’s well written, informative and practical. One of my favorites, and probably the best introduction to contemplative prayer of which I’m aware. Although a Jesuit, he draws substantially from the Carmelite tradition for this book

I think that reading St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross and their commentators is important for anyone practicing Christian contemplation in a serious fashion. Others have mentioned Fr. Thomas Dubay’s book, “Fire Within” as such a commentary – I haven’t read it, so I’ll leave it to others to discuss. My favorite commentator on the Carmelite tradition of prayer is Sr. Margaret Dorgan, DCM, although she hasn’t written a lot and her cassette series from the 1990s (Creedence Cassettes) are no longer readily available.

I’ve also gotten a lot of benefit by reading some of the books by Trappist Fr. Thomas Merton, OCSO, especially “New Seeds of Contemplation,” which I’ve read over and over through the years. Merton comes out of the Benedictine tradition, which is also very sound and focuses on lectio divina as the starting point for meditation and contemplation. There are a number of fine books and online resources on lectio divina and contemplation in the Benedictine tradition.

I’m not as big a fan of the books focusing on Centering Prayer, such as those authored by Thomas Keating, OCSO, M. Basil Pennington, OCSO, or John Main, OSB, although many others have found them beneficial. While their approach may be helpful to some, I prefer the approach to contemplative prayer in the books/authors discussed above.
 
Filius99993 said:
True… generally people who go around boasting how they have contact with God that others don’t are either insane or apostates… or both.
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I think that if we mention these sorts of things, people think we are boasting (or mad), because it sounds as if we are saying we are saints or something. I read St. Teresa of Avila for many, many years before I ever had the sort of experiences she had. Over and over again during those years, her books told me that it was not she herself that was glorious & that any glory that people might see in her was the glory of God, and that she was only the dross. I never believed her when I read that. Whenever I read that, I thought that either (1) She was a saint, and she knew she was a saint, but of course would not admit to that, or (2) She was such a saint she didn’t know she was a saint. When, after 29 years of practice, I was finally hit over the head with these things, I understood that St. Teresa was merely stating THE FACT when she said that all the goodness is in God and nothing in us. I can’t remember where, but somewhere in her writing, she talks about how she can sometimes talk about these things almost matter-of-factly and it perhaps sounded to others as if she were being glib, or something like that. When you have these sorts of things happen to you, it is an art and it is a science, but it is most of all A JOB. 24 hours a day, no holidays, ever. Most of it is very hard slog. Persecutions, slander, betrayals, thefts, exile. Unexplained maladies! I’ve been feeling absolutely terrible for the past 30 years until the Lord snapped me out if about 10 days ago. Wow. It’s really great to be able to stay standing all day like everybody else! I’m trying to be really good so that he doesn’t slap me with the prostration again. People who are not contemplatives have no idea of what it is about. I practiced for nearly three decades and then was astounded to find out what it was about. (Hint: The Army. Get in line. Shut up. Do as you are told. Have courage in every moment. ) I wish more people would practice, because it’s lonely out here. If I can do it, so can you. Mysticism is normal. A lot of books will say you shouldn’t pray for these gifts which are undoubtedly far greater than any of us deserve, but I say, Be Spiritually Ambitious, and ask the Lord to come to you. Be warned – there is a price – but when you finally get there, all the suffering seems like nothing, nothing at all. You can’t believe that THAT was all it took?
 
puzzleannie said:
their gift is infused contemplation, intimate union with Christ in prayer which by its nature is a private thing. what is to share? if they are also called as spiritual directors, like Juan de la Cruz and Teresa, they will serve in that way, but probably without boasting of their mysticism
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Of course it is the most private thing there is, but, at the same time, I realized in the very deep experiences I had that, although I’d practiced for almost three decades and had always believed that that was about me, I found in October 2004 that IT HAD NEVER BEEN ABOUT ME. It can’t be only about me. That is not a possibility. There isn’t any way for that to be true. So when some people want to find fault with the mystics’ desire to crawl into their caves, as if that is something selfish and lacking in community spirit, they are dead wrong. The work of mystics is hard work, and it is about everything.
 
sorpresa said:
I think that if we mention these sorts of things, people think we are boasting (or mad), because it sounds as if we are saying we are saints or something. I read St. Teresa of Avila for many, many years before I ever had the sort of experiences she had. Over and over again during those years, her books told me that it was not she herself that was glorious & that any glory that people might see in her was the glory of God, and that she was only the dross. I never believed her when I read that. Whenever I read that, I thought that either (1) She was a saint, and she knew she was a saint, but of course would not admit to that, or (2) She was such a saint she didn’t know she was a saint. When, after 29 years of practice, I was finally hit over the head with these things, I understood that St. Teresa was merely stating THE FACT when she said that all the goodness is in God and nothing in us. I can’t remember where, but somewhere in her writing, she talks about how she can sometimes talk about these things almost matter-of-factly and it perhaps sounded to others as if she were being glib, or something like that. When you have these sorts of things happen to you, it is an art and it is a science, but it is most of all A JOB. 24 hours a day, no holidays, ever. Most of it is very hard slog. Persecutions, slander, betrayals, thefts, exile. Unexplained maladies! I’ve been feeling absolutely terrible for the past 30 years until the Lord snapped me out if about 10 days ago. Wow. It’s really great to be able to stay standing all day like everybody else! I’m trying to be really good so that he doesn’t slap me with the prostration again. People who are not contemplatives have no idea of what it is about. I practiced for nearly three decades and then was astounded to find out what it was about. (Hint: The Army. Get in line. Shut up. Do as you are told. Have courage in every moment. ) I wish more people would practice, because it’s lonely out here. If I can do it, so can you. Mysticism is normal. A lot of books will say you shouldn’t pray for these gifts which are undoubtedly far greater than any of us deserve, but I say, Be Spiritually Ambitious, and ask the Lord to come to you. Be warned – there is a price – but when you finally get there, all the suffering seems like nothing, nothing at all. You can’t believe that THAT was all it took?
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May I ask 2 questions? (with the preface that I must say that you sound incredibly believable, particularly the "God is the good, and we are merely the ‘power lines’ ‘transmitting’ His goodness to others part. I have thought that for quite awhile. And that Saints are people who just know how to get out of His way and let Him work through them better than others. If I understand you correctly :o)
  1. How do you know that this/these gift(s) are from God?
  2. What do you “do” to get there?
  3. You are still Catholic, right?
  4. What are you surprised about? :D;)
If you’d rather, you can answer me via PM (although I am not sure you can use it yet since you’ve just joined)
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
May I ask 2 questions? (with the preface that I must say that you sound incredibly believable, particularly the "God is the good, and we are merely the ‘power lines’ ‘transmitting’ His goodness to others part. I have thought that for quite awhile. And that Saints are people who just know how to get out of His way and let Him work through them better than others. If I understand you correctly :o)
  1. How do you know that this/these gift(s) are from God?
  2. What do you “do” to get there?
  3. You are still Catholic, right?
  4. What are you surprised about? :D;)
If you’d rather, you can answer me via PM (although I am not sure you can use it yet since you’ve just joined)
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Hi Luigi,

Thank you for your interest and for saying that I sound believable. I think I sound believable too. I read somewhere (maybe in Evelyn Underhill’s *Mysticism * ) that no one has ever been able to describe these experiences, but that we can tell, by the way they TRY to describe them, that they are all talking about the same thing.

I don’t feel as if I can begin exactly at the beginning here, not at the moment, but wanted to respond to you as soon as possible. Before I say anything, I want to say that St. John of the Cross has said, vis-a-vis ‘mystical’ experiences, that “many souls who have known nothing of such things have made incomparably greater progress than others who have received many of them” (Ascent of Mt. Carmel). And St. Teresa of Avila, in her autobiography, describes how she, after 20 years of searching for a spiritual director who understands her, finally meets a Jesuit who knows what she is talking about and who does not consider her mad, dishonest, a trouble-maker, an attention-seeker or possessed by the devil. He listens to what she has to say about all her exalted experiences, and he tells her what she needs to do. He is very surprised when she cannot carry out his instructions. He says the states the Lord has raised her to do not match up with the person she is. He tells her she probably doesn’t even know the meaning of the word, “mortification.” I read that for years before I realized I didn’t know the meaning of the word, “mortification.” I thought it meant something like, "utterly ashamed.’ I finally looked it up and it means, “to be dead to the world” – to care nothing for the world or any of what it has to offer, to care nothing for its opinion of me.

The most important thing I read in all the books for year after year was that we must PRAY. I read for decade after decade and did not get that we must ask for help in all things.

I shall try to answer your questions briefly, and yes, if you want to connect with me again. please send the Private Message if you prefer that. I’m not sure I know how to do that at the moment.
  1. How do you know these gifts are from God?
    That is a big question. I don’t know if I can answer that fully right now. I hope I can be at least accurate. There are people who are scholars who can think about these things in an organized way. I would like to know some of those people. I think we know because the proof is in the pudding. I would say, and I hope I am accurate, that it is the transformation in the person that is the proof.
I’ve known some dark people in my time, whose gifts were not from God. They can buzz people up, and even do “healings”, but it is clear from the effect they have on those around them, that there is something very wrong going on here. There is only one teacher, and nothing goes wrong around him. Anybody who wants to be ‘guru’ I would have nothing to do with. That’s not much of an answer, but I am being too long here.
  1. What do you do to get there?
    Again, a big question. Looking back, I see I simply should have asked him for help much, much sooner and far more often. I should have asked him for help and for wisdom, in everything from finding the keys to finding him. (Although, when it came down to it, it was more that he found me.)
  2. You are still Catholic, right?
    I think what I am is Catholic at the core. I will try to explain it by relating one of the experiences I had in 2004. (While sitting on my couch in my sitting room) I was in the crypt of a church (I was in London at the time these things happened.). I had a crowbar and I lifted one of the old worn stones up from the floor of the crypt with that. What I saw beneath the stone was what resembled a golden egg in a nest. The gold was not made of gold metal. It was made of gold light. This egg was Christ. There was a sort of gauzy membrane or excresence over and around the egg. It got the impression that the gauze was needed, perhaps because I wouldn’t have been able to look at the egg if there hadn’t been something between it and me to tone it down. Or perhaps for some other reason. St. John of the Cross says you should never interpret these things. After seeing the egg, I saw the outside of the church in my neighbourhood. It seemed to be covered in barnacles. The barnacles were all the things ‘not right’ about the church. On the one hand, it was as it these pictures said both that the barnacles are hiding Christ, the barnacles have got him captive. On the other hand, there was the view that he needs to be hidden from eyes that shouldn’t see him, and that even the worst aspects of the church, terrible as they have been, provide some of the camoflage.
4./ What are you surprised about?
I would say that the most surprising part of this for me is that, for 29 years, I was trying to reach Nirvana.

Please write again, if you care to.

Sorpresa

PS. Yes! about getting out of his way! That is all that prayer is. Get out of his way. I have made everything so difficult for myself by not understanding about prayer and am still trying so hard to learn and to remember that that is all I need do.
 
sorpresa said:
And St. Teresa of Avila, in her autobiography, describes how she, after 20 years of searching for a spiritual director who understands her, finally meets a Jesuit who knows what she is talking about and who does not consider her mad, dishonest, a trouble-maker, an attention-seeker or possessed by the devil.
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Thank you so much for posting this. I’m in a real pickle about finding a priest to talk to about my own experiences, some of which I’m sure are mystical, for fear of all the things that happened to St Teresa. It’s nice to know some of the great Doctors of the Church were misunderstood and confused too 🙂
 
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