Living Mystics?

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fhansen said:
The Beatific Vision may not have been the best example but I believe it’s on the same order as an intellectual vision in any case because it’s an infused perception or gift of knowledge which is otherwise completely unattainable by a created, finite being.

In earthly experience we come to know someone via perceiving them with our senses. The knowledge of them, however, remains after we’ve perceived them directly. But I’d suggest that the actual knowledge of the person-who they are- of their nature, their character, their love, etc transcends the perceptions because these are intangibles to begin with. Now, if a superior being were to infuse into us those intangibles, this knowledge of who they are, without the benefit of sense perception, this would be an intellectual vision. But, like I said, there simply is no earthly correlation to it.
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it is the intellect that conveys the vision in a meaningful way. in time, that which is beyond the intellect cannot be shared.

peace
 
hazcompat said:
it is the intellect that conveys the vision in a meaningful way. in time, that which is beyond the intellect cannot be shared.

peace
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It’s God that conveys the vision in a meaningful way. He employs our faculties, yes, and if there are images involved, I believe St Teresa referred to these as “imaginative visions”, where our faculty for seeing in a subjective, internal manner is used to convey some sort of communication or another.
 
Stylites said:
Yes, except there is a “seeing” which happens, hence the reason it’s called the Beatific Vision rather than the Beatific Knowing.

In the direct vision of God, one comes to know Him, and see Him.
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To put my statement another way: to know Him* is* to see Him.

In the old Testament, there are several instances where people are exhorted to “seek Gods’ face”. In the NT St Paul speaks of how we now see “as through a dim glass” or “as through a glass, darkly”, but that* later*, speaking of the next life, we’ll “see face to face”. God, however, is spirit. We know there’s really no face to be seen.

And then it will no longer be knowledge about Him, but knowledge of Him, the direct experience of His being, which He enables us to perceive.
 
fhansen said:
To put my statement another way: to know Him* is* to see Him.

In the old Testament, there are several instances where people are exhorted to “seek Gods’ face”. In the NT St Paul speaks of how we now see “as through a dim glass” or “as through a glass, darkly”, but that* later*, speaking of the next life, we’ll “see face to face”. God, however, is spirit. We know there’s really no face to be seen.

And then it will no longer be knowledge about Him, but knowledge of Him, the direct experience of His being, which He enables us to perceive.
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fhansen, how do you know there’s really no face to be seen? The very interaction of seeing God is a “facing” even if there’s no eyes or nose or brow to behold. The “face of God” is a very good description of being in His presence, for being up front and solely focused on another Person.

Again, seeing is a requisite for really knowing.
 
Stylites said:
fhansen, how do you know there’s really no face to be seen? The very interaction of seeing God is a “facing” even if there’s no eyes or nose or brow to behold. The “face of God” is a very good description of being in His presence, for being up front and solely focused on another Person.

Again, seeing is a requisite for really knowing.
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No, knowing is the requisite for “seeing”; they’re equivalent in this case. That’s what it means. Otherwise, what, would you imagine, is there to see?
 
In regard to the original question of the OP,I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned Father Zlatko Sudac of Croatia. He would probably come as close as anyone today who meet the general perception of what a “mystic” is. My understanding he bears the five wounds of Christ, and has the gifts of bilocation, and levitation.
 
fhansen said:
No, knowing is the requisite for “seeing”; they’re equivalent in this case. That’s what it means. Otherwise, what, would you imagine, is there to see?
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When we’ve never seen the ocean, we might ask others what the ocean is like. It is only through standing in front of it and seeing it that one comes to know the ocean.

But to agree with your point that seeing and knowing are the same, a room which has been darkened for a thousand years becomes instantly and fully lighted when a lamp is brought into it, rather than by small degrees.
 
Stylites said:
When we’ve never seen the ocean, we might ask others what the ocean is like. It is only through standing in front of it and seeing it that one comes to know the ocean.

But to agree with your point that seeing and knowing are the same, a room which has been darkened for a thousand years becomes instantly and fully lighted when a lamp is brought into it, rather than by small degrees.
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Yes, we must “see” God, that’s the point of our existence. I was trying to distinguish between types of visions since the question came up and it’s very difficult to do. I probably just managed to steer us off topic a bit.
 
JW55 said:
In regard to the original question of the OP,I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned Father Zlatko Sudac of Croatia. He would probably come as close as anyone today who meet the general perception of what a “mystic” is. My understanding he bears the five wounds of Christ, and has the gifts of bilocation, and levitation.
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Father says he has never had a vision.

peace
 
sorpresa said:
I think that if we mention these sorts of things, people think we are boasting (or mad), because it sounds as if we are saying we are saints or something. I read St. Teresa of Avila for many, many years before I ever had the sort of experiences she had. Over and over again during those years, her books told me that it was not she herself that was glorious & that any glory that people might see in her was the glory of God, and that she was only the dross. I never believed her when I read that. Whenever I read that, I thought that either (1) She was a saint, and she knew she was a saint, but of course would not admit to that, or (2) She was such a saint she didn’t know she was a saint. When, after 29 years of practice, I was finally hit over the head with these things, I understood that St. Teresa was merely stating THE FACT when she said that all the goodness is in God and nothing in us. I can’t remember where, but somewhere in her writing, she talks about how she can sometimes talk about these things almost matter-of-factly and it perhaps sounded to others as if she were being glib, or something like that. When you have these sorts of things happen to you, it is an art and it is a science, but it is most of all A JOB. 24 hours a day, no holidays, ever. Most of it is very hard slog. Persecutions, slander, betrayals, thefts, exile. Unexplained maladies! I’ve been feeling absolutely terrible for the past 30 years until the Lord snapped me out if about 10 days ago. Wow. It’s really great to be able to stay standing all day like everybody else! I’m trying to be really good so that he doesn’t slap me with the prostration again. People who are not contemplatives have no idea of what it is about. I practiced for nearly three decades and then was astounded to find out what it was about. (Hint: The Army. Get in line. Shut up. Do as you are told. Have courage in every moment. ) I wish more people would practice, because it’s lonely out here. If I can do it, so can you. Mysticism is normal. A lot of books will say you shouldn’t pray for these gifts which are undoubtedly far greater than any of us deserve, but I say, Be Spiritually Ambitious, and ask the Lord to come to you. Be warned – there is a price – but when you finally get there, all the suffering seems like nothing, nothing at all. You can’t believe that THAT was all it took?
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A Reply to My Own Above Post from Sorpresa
I forgot to say back in June that if anyone would like to send me a private message, that would be fine. I don’t know if I’ve been a member of this forum long enough for that? Also, I’ve created a blog about ‘living mystics’ but don’t know if I’m allowed to give the title of that or an email address on this page. For many years I have sought companions who wish to explore the reality of the Lord as equals. Of course, we must do it for ourselves, but even the greatest saints had companions. Would someone please let me know if I can supply an email or blog address on this site? Thanks. Sorpresa
 
hazcompat said:
Sorry I was doing too many things at once. Please forgive?

The OP questions living mystics?

There is a difference between the Beatific Vision and the mystical vision.

no living(in the flesh) being would stay in the flesh if it beheld the Beatific vision?

right?

peace
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Please explain this thouroughly, if you wish in person.
I have given up my house, live to see youth at risk given a chance by my useing the gifts I have to empower them rather than use my gifts (music, art, craft, sport, family tree and spiritual life feeding the poor and forgiving on all occasions and sharing the word in the bible). I believe that this is the way of Jesus for mankind. I have a beautiful relationship with Jesus and what He allows me to go through or be blessed with leaves me in tears.

However,I don’t know this that you relate to here though. Can you explain.
Thank you.
 
I don’t know their names, but there are at least two that I know of in my city.
 
stmax said:
I don’t know their names, but there are at least two that I know of in my city.
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Can you tell me how you would know that they are mystics, what makes them stand out from other good living christians, (catholics)?
ThanksGodbless
littleone
 
Filius99993 said:
True… generally people who go around boasting how they have contact with God that others don’t are either insane or apostates… or both.
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Or again is it posible that the person is a person like John the Baptist, born to speak out God’s love…insain! …or saint? Only God knows. For the rest of us we are called to love each other the way God loves us.
 
In reference to Fr. Zlatko Sudac, the statement was made:
" Father says he has never had a vision"
Must one have had a vision to be considered a mystic?
Aren’t there numerous supernatural gifts bestowed,
visions being only one of them?
Do we know if Padre Pio had visions?
 
I, too, would be interested to know the priest to whom Carolyn is referring.
 
Halo. I wanted to find out if anyone knew of credible mystics that could compare to Maria Simma. What is their name? How could I contact them to find out about any of my relatives who might be in purgatory and need my help? I am asking this because I read the book called “Get Us Out of Here”, a book on an interview with Maria Simma. I firmly believe she was a real mystic due to the approvals from Medjugorje and phsyciatrists. But she has since passed away, is there anyone else like her that we know of that is alive today that is willing to help people?
 
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