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jrabs
Guest
Your brother and you bunk together and your sis and fiance get their own rooms. Seems honorable - and do - able.
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Tom
Guest
Perfect, I’m sure your family will support your decision on sleeping in a separate room from your fiancé. If you and your brother share the larger room, that you and your fiancé were planning on sharing, your fiancé can have your brother’s smaller room. An alternate would be for you to move into your sister’s smaller room, and have your sister and your fiancé share the larger room, that you were planning to share with your fiancee. Either case would mean a small inconvenience to your siblings but as I said I’m sure they will feel privileged to sacrifice for your noble attempt at chivalry. Your family will probably be quite relieved that you’re attempting to be mature and respectful. At the very least they’ll appreciate you thought about it.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, under the 5th commandment. . .
“Nudge, nudge, wink-wink, of course you two aren’t really doing anything”, people would say–and then go home and gossip, “CC and his fiance must be really dumb to think that we don’t know what they’re up to–what hypocrites”! And of course, the kids would say, “Uncle CC and Aunt fiance are Catholic and they’re living together, so it must be all right.”
Look, I’m not saying that these people would be right. . .but that’s why we have teachings about not causing a scandal or even the appearance of scandal. It’s in the Bible–Paul tells us to be solicitous of those who are weak in faith and not give them means by which they will fall. That means that even if you’re simon-pure 100% continent, but the appearances would make the normal, reasonable non-Christian think you’re not, that you understand that even innocent actions, when consistently and logically misconstrued, need to be modified.
Living together in the same room is not a good idea, no matter how “strong” you are. Peter fell. Judas fell. Hand picked by God Himself, they fell. Who are you to think that because you feel “strong”, that you can’t fall?
One can never do wrong in order to do right. Thus, arguing that “we can’t afford separate apartments” doesn’t mean that you can say, “we have to live together, because we can’t afford separate apartments”, as though the lack of money justifies an improper–or a perceived improper–situation. Doesn’t she have a family herself? Aren’t there places available for her even if she doesn’t have a job? What about things like Job Corps? What are her plans for the next year–and what are yours, once your internship is over? And really, you could room with your brother–ever hear of bunk beds if there’s a space consideration?
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This could be considered to affect you. After all, considering the climate and the public morality espoused by many, even the majority of people, no matter what their avowed religious beliefs, the situation you describe between yourself and your fiance could cause scandal. Even if you resisted every temptation–and of course, by “no sex” you mean absolutely no sexual impurities whatsoever, meaning no mutual masturbation, no oral sex, no improper sexual licence etc. at any time–it would look, to John or Jane Q. Public, as though you were cohabitating.
“Nudge, nudge, wink-wink, of course you two aren’t really doing anything”, people would say–and then go home and gossip, “CC and his fiance must be really dumb to think that we don’t know what they’re up to–what hypocrites”! And of course, the kids would say, “Uncle CC and Aunt fiance are Catholic and they’re living together, so it must be all right.”
Look, I’m not saying that these people would be right. . .but that’s why we have teachings about not causing a scandal or even the appearance of scandal. It’s in the Bible–Paul tells us to be solicitous of those who are weak in faith and not give them means by which they will fall. That means that even if you’re simon-pure 100% continent, but the appearances would make the normal, reasonable non-Christian think you’re not, that you understand that even innocent actions, when consistently and logically misconstrued, need to be modified.
Living together in the same room is not a good idea, no matter how “strong” you are. Peter fell. Judas fell. Hand picked by God Himself, they fell. Who are you to think that because you feel “strong”, that you can’t fall?
One can never do wrong in order to do right. Thus, arguing that “we can’t afford separate apartments” doesn’t mean that you can say, “we have to live together, because we can’t afford separate apartments”, as though the lack of money justifies an improper–or a perceived improper–situation. Doesn’t she have a family herself? Aren’t there places available for her even if she doesn’t have a job? What about things like Job Corps? What are her plans for the next year–and what are yours, once your internship is over? And really, you could room with your brother–ever hear of bunk beds if there’s a space consideration?
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ccwalker_uwp
Guest
Tantum ergo:
Tantum ergo:
Tantum ergo:
Tantum ergo:
Thanks for putting such an unwanted thought in my head!
Tantum ergo:
I don’t really care what other people have to say about my situation, they don’t know the truth, but if they want the truth, all they have to do is ask.
Tantum ergo:
My idea of sex is unlike anyone else’s. I don’t want to have sex! I could go my whole life without it, except that I want to have children.
Tantum ergo:
Her family is in Alabama and Texas, we will be in Wisconsin. She will begin looking for a job once we are in Wisconsin. I am only concerned about the next five months, not worried about beyond that right now. Also, we don’t have bunk beds to use.
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4_marks
Guest
It’s your life. You have to make that decision. You are an adult. No one can or should make it for you.
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dhgray
Guest
Honestly Matt,
Why did you ask in the first place. Did you want us to say, “AHH, poor Matt. It’s ok.”? Well, it’s not! jrabs and Tom have the perfect answer. Your financee get’s her own room and you share one with your brother.
As for this not effecting anyone else, you war wrong. You are planting a seed for your brother and sister to do the same. And they might not be as strong as you are. They will turn to your parents and say, “Well, Matt did it. Why can’t I?”
Why don’t you two just go to the church and get married?
C
ccwalker_uwp
Guest
Like I already asked…can two people get married in the Catholic Church after only being engaged for four days?
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dhgray
Guest
That would be up to your local priest. Go to the Chruch and ask him. Tell him your situation and ask for his help.
God Bless you on what ever you decide to do.
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Adam_Costanzo
Guest
Why not? Logistically it may be tough to plan a wedding in a week (it has been done, the girl’s mother said it wasn’t easy but it can be done), but I don’t see why it would be immoral. You have been dating for quite some time right?
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Princess_Abby
Guest
The general agreement of the United States bishops and their respective dioceses is that a couple must be engaged no less than six months and undergo marriage prep (pre-cana) before getting married. The priest will also request that you meet with him a few times to discuss the transition from engagement to marriage.
Furthermore, the United States bishops have also put out a pamphlet detailing the issue of co-habitation. They define it in very certain terms and explain exactly what is and is not allowed. Call your priest and ask him where you can obtain a copy. Or, do a google search and look up the website.
In the pamphlet, it mentions that an engaged couple should not be under the same roof more than 3-4 nights a week. And no, there are not any allowances for sleeping in the same room, same bed, etc.
Furthermore, the United States bishops have also put out a pamphlet detailing the issue of co-habitation. They define it in very certain terms and explain exactly what is and is not allowed. Call your priest and ask him where you can obtain a copy. Or, do a google search and look up the website.
In the pamphlet, it mentions that an engaged couple should not be under the same roof more than 3-4 nights a week. And no, there are not any allowances for sleeping in the same room, same bed, etc.
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Bobby_Jim
Guest
As someone who is also currently engaged, I will add my 2 cents and agree with everyone else who says that it’s not a good idea to sleep in the same room as a regular thing.
It’s come up on a couple of unusual occasions for my fiance and I (e.g. she was visiting me at my one-room apartment and there was an ice storm that would have made it treacherous to drive home). So one of us took the sofa, one took the bed. Nothing happened. But I don’t know what would happen if we put ourselves in the same situation for 5 months in a row.
And we felt bad precisely because of the scandal issue. People who know us well know we’re committed to not having sex before we’re married. But there are plenty of people who would just assume, and never bother to ask you.
I will second what someone said about an air mattress - they are cheap, portable, and surprisingly comfortable. If you insist on being in the same room, maybe if you always leave the door open whenever you’re both in there, or maybe just take the door off (just go into the bathroom to get dressed). And go to bed a couple of hours apart.
It’s come up on a couple of unusual occasions for my fiance and I (e.g. she was visiting me at my one-room apartment and there was an ice storm that would have made it treacherous to drive home). So one of us took the sofa, one took the bed. Nothing happened. But I don’t know what would happen if we put ourselves in the same situation for 5 months in a row.
And we felt bad precisely because of the scandal issue. People who know us well know we’re committed to not having sex before we’re married. But there are plenty of people who would just assume, and never bother to ask you.
I will second what someone said about an air mattress - they are cheap, portable, and surprisingly comfortable. If you insist on being in the same room, maybe if you always leave the door open whenever you’re both in there, or maybe just take the door off (just go into the bathroom to get dressed). And go to bed a couple of hours apart.
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Black_Jaque
Guest
As far as I know, the Catholic Church does not teach that it would be a sin per se to live together before marriage. The Catholic Church does say that this is mighty foolish though. And it would be a sin to cause scandal. Other people see you living together, consider you as upright Catholics, but don’t necessarily believe you aren’t engaging in intercourse. Hence they figure this is something that Catholics do. Just like Kerry and abortion, other people may get a wrong impression of Catholic moral teaching if they see Kerry receiving Communion one day, campaigning for Pro-Choice the next.
Now, here’s my question to you - Why would ANYONE want to live together thinking they’re not going to have sex?
For one, you’re either overestimating your ability to resist temptation, or two one or both of you have got something wrong with your wiring.
Any woman who can sleep in the same room with me for many nights in a row and NOT come dangerously close to temptation would IMMEDIATELY lose her candidacy to be my wife. Can you spell F-R-I-G-I-D? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Now, here’s my question to you - Why would ANYONE want to live together thinking they’re not going to have sex?
For one, you’re either overestimating your ability to resist temptation, or two one or both of you have got something wrong with your wiring.
Any woman who can sleep in the same room with me for many nights in a row and NOT come dangerously close to temptation would IMMEDIATELY lose her candidacy to be my wife. Can you spell F-R-I-G-I-D? Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
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puzzleannie
Guest
why are you engaged to be married when you are not in a position to marry? shouldn’t you wait until you can marry to get engaged, and wait until you marry to share the privileges of marriage including sharing a bedroom (and by the way, sharing poverty can be a very special privilege of early married life).
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La_Chiara
Guest
Hey folks, is it possible that this guy is messing with us and does not sincerely want an answer to his question? I suspect he is yanking our collective Catholic chain! :tsktsk:
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ccwalker_uwp
Guest
Black Jaque:
There is nothing wrong with my wiring, and nothing wrong with hers. I feel that sex is meant for marriage, not before. Why is it wrong for me to seriously not want sex before marriage??? Is it not possible to resist temptation???
C
ccwalker_uwp
Guest
Why are you answering questions with questions??? I am in a position to marry, that is why I asked her to be my wife.
C
carrieloon
Guest
CC,
Your sexual attraction to your fiance should be so strong that you could not live in the same room with her before marriage and resist temptation. If it isn’t, I fear that you do not have the proper amount of attraction to each other to sustain a marriage for the rest of your lives.
Our sexuality is a gift from God, one that serves many purposes. One of these purposes is to keep the two of you close to each other, namely by sexually desiring each other to the point of excluding all others. Judging from your post about not caring about sex, I’d say that you either have physical problems or a mental hangup about your sexuality–what you described in that sentence is not a good, healthy Catholic attitude about sexuality. I urge you to look into this and get counseling if necessary so that by the time you enter into marriage, you are ready to be a husband in ALL senses of the word. Sexual problems in a marriage can be devastating.
This is assuming, of course, that your wife to be does not feel as you do. If she could care less about sex as well, then you probably picked a very good mate for yourself!
Essentially, though, I agree with the others. It is common sense. Your siblings are obviously younger than you and you are setting a dangerous example to them.
Please, do the right thing and examine your own feelings towards this girl and the situation. There are always alternatives to sleeping in the same room. Yes your back might hurt for a while, but our Lord suffered much greater physical pain and indignities to save all of us.
Your sexual attraction to your fiance should be so strong that you could not live in the same room with her before marriage and resist temptation. If it isn’t, I fear that you do not have the proper amount of attraction to each other to sustain a marriage for the rest of your lives.
Our sexuality is a gift from God, one that serves many purposes. One of these purposes is to keep the two of you close to each other, namely by sexually desiring each other to the point of excluding all others. Judging from your post about not caring about sex, I’d say that you either have physical problems or a mental hangup about your sexuality–what you described in that sentence is not a good, healthy Catholic attitude about sexuality. I urge you to look into this and get counseling if necessary so that by the time you enter into marriage, you are ready to be a husband in ALL senses of the word. Sexual problems in a marriage can be devastating.
This is assuming, of course, that your wife to be does not feel as you do. If she could care less about sex as well, then you probably picked a very good mate for yourself!
Essentially, though, I agree with the others. It is common sense. Your siblings are obviously younger than you and you are setting a dangerous example to them.
Please, do the right thing and examine your own feelings towards this girl and the situation. There are always alternatives to sleeping in the same room. Yes your back might hurt for a while, but our Lord suffered much greater physical pain and indignities to save all of us.
C
ccwalker_uwp
Guest
IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS MADE THE COMMITTMENT TO NOT HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE??? IS IT NOT POSSIBLE TO RESIST THAT TEMPTATION???
I don’t need any counseling, I’m doing just fine with my sexuality.
She also has the committment of waiting until marriage to have sex, and she is strong enough to resist that temptation.
I think my siblings, a 22 year old and 23 year old, are adult enough to make their own decisions.
I am an Elite Athlete, with goals of Olympic glory, I do not want to risk back problems the rest of my life. Yes, Jesus did suffer, and I am suffering in ways as well.
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perpetua
Guest
I am skeptical of this posting, but in case you are sincere and not “pulling our collective chain” I will respond.
I, like a previous poster, am wondering why you are engaged. You are obviously not in a position to marry, as you cannot support yourself, to say nothing of a wife and children. If you are not planning on marrying until you are able to support yourself which you implied would be many months to a year, there should not be this urgency to have her move up to your state. Since you are both “strong enough” to withstand the tempation of sleeping in the same room, then surely you are both strong enough to have a little bit of a long distance courtship or even engagement until you are in a position to do the thing properly. While the Church may not adress your situation specifically, I seem to remember something in the Bible about a man LEAVING his father and mother and cleaving to his wife… If you are not in a position to do so, then you are not in a position to be offering marriage to a woman.
I, like a previous poster, am wondering why you are engaged. You are obviously not in a position to marry, as you cannot support yourself, to say nothing of a wife and children. If you are not planning on marrying until you are able to support yourself which you implied would be many months to a year, there should not be this urgency to have her move up to your state. Since you are both “strong enough” to withstand the tempation of sleeping in the same room, then surely you are both strong enough to have a little bit of a long distance courtship or even engagement until you are in a position to do the thing properly. While the Church may not adress your situation specifically, I seem to remember something in the Bible about a man LEAVING his father and mother and cleaving to his wife… If you are not in a position to do so, then you are not in a position to be offering marriage to a woman.
C
ccwalker_uwp
Guest
We are engaged because this is the person that I want to spend the rest of my life with. The issue is not finances, so drop that subject. If the plan was for me to be in Wisconsin and her in Alabama, we would no longer be dating, we would have broken up in May, as I cannot handle being 1000 miles from the one I love more than words.
As I said, I do not have the time or money to be in a relationship with someone who is 1000 miles away.
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