Living together but not having sex

[Flor]

It’s difficult nowadays to totally cover all the costs of living, all alone. However, cohabitation with the opposite sex does usually lead to sex … And If one of them ( usually , or more often the woman ) is looking for a spouse, true love, commitment, and has settled for a fellow who is just happy to hang out and share rent, she’s saddled with a problem.
" Temptation and eventual sin " aside, if someone is living with a non marriage candidate, it’s very difficult for them to freely look for one. They appear to be already taken …
If you don’t like/ love someone well enough to marry them, it’s wisest not to just live together.

 

[Flor]

Walking out the door is a LOT easier and LESS expensive when you are not LEGALLY bound in matrimony.

 

[FiveLinden]

Walking out the door is a LOT easier and LESS expensive when you are not LEGALLY bound in matrimony.

Not where I live. Law provides for 50-50 split of all relationship assets; no fault divorce. Does not matter if you are married or not after 1.5yrs of living together. No tax advantages to marriage, or not marriage.

 

[FiveLinden]

I realize that you and Mrs FiveLinden aren’t Catholic, but if you and your wife take the position that either of you are “free to walk out the door” after several decades of marriage, you’re already so far outside the Catholic view of marriage that it’s hard to even have a discussion with you

Well, yes we are far away from the Catholic idea of marriage (although we were married by a former priest in a secular ceremony). We don’t have or intend to have other partners and our relationship has been stable and long-lasting. But we are both free in the sense that only our relationship keeps us together. And in that I would include friends, children etc. The fact that we were married is neither here nor there. Would have thought comparators outside Catholic and religious marriages would be excellent things to bring to bear on a discussion of the advantages of Catholic marriage as we provide a bit of a control group.

 

[Jen7]

We can’t do something because the neighbors might see it and think that it’s ok… At some juncture, in the society we live, I think it’s on the neighbor to take responsibility for their own choices and knowledge.

I completely agree that at some point this point exists. I had an older lady suggest to me when I was dating that it was “unseemly” to enter my now-husband’s apartment when his roommate was out because “neighbor’s might talk.” Maybe neighbor’s talked about that sort of thing in the 1930’s or something… but having lunch in a guy’s apartment at 2:00 in the afternoon is not going to make anyone “talk” (or care or notice) these days. Except this one woman apparently. And I really feel she just needed to chill out. I had lunch in my now-husband’s apartment many time and never felt one pang of guilt or responsibility for anyone who noticed.

I think the situation in question here falls somewhere in the middle. Where “in the middle,” I can’t say. I will say that there’s an older gentleman in my family who lives alone but travels with his girlfriend, and when traveling they share a hotel room. I didn’t think much of it because, well, they’re pretty old and it’s not my business what happens in that room, and it obviously makes financial sense to share a room instead of each renting one. However… I was shocked when prepping my son for 1st confession & he asked what the 6th commandment means & I said “basically it means guys and girls shouldn’t live together when they’re not married & they sure shouldn’t live with someone else’s husband/wife”… and he immediately referenced this relative in a “well they do it!” way. And I realized that, as a mom, I was stuck - either explain the birds and the bees for the first time right then and there and talk about how they might not be having actual sex… or leave him to feel a bit scandalized. So see? There was some scandal for my child even though we adults all probably look the other way. I don’t know if/when that should matter to the other people… but I don’t think it’s “never.” It seems like a gray area.

 

[poche]

Two sexes living together sharing bills is not the same thing as cohabitation in anticipation of marriage.

 

[edward_george1]

First off, I love that you led with “I know marriage is not part of your life.” The old “Father is celibate so what can he know?” bit. Never mind the fact that I didn’t just arise from the dust and was actually born to a family, never mind that I still have normal human relationships, albeit not marital ones, never mind that I prepare couples for marriage and I hear confessions, and never mind that one doesn’t need to have direct experience of something in order to speak intelligently about it. So yes, marriage is a part of my life, even though I am not myself married.

I didn’t say the situation is changed by marriage. I said marriage isn’t something magic that changes that. That’s my whole point. The situation isn’t changed by marriage and that’s a big part of why marriages between couples who have been living together before marriage can, though not always, fail. I realize mileage may vary.

 

[edward_george1]

I didn’t say it was. I was talking about why this arrangement is a bad idea in the case of a couple who’s anticipating marriage.

 

[edward_george1]

If you’re going to cite me, please engage my argument completely, and don’t just reduce it down to that. If you go read what I said, it’s not simply “people hide things from one another.” There’s more to it.

 

[FiveLinden]

First off, I love that you led with “I know marriage is not part of your life.” The old “Father is celibate so what can he know?” bit. Never mind the fact that I didn’t just arise from the dust and was actually born to a family, never mind that I still have normal human relationships, albeit not marital ones, never mind that I prepare couples for marriage and I hear confessions, and never mind that one doesn’t need to have direct experience of something in order to speak intelligently about it. So yes, marriage is a part of my life, even though I am not myself married.

I did not understand your response to my substantive comment Father so I’ll respond to this. All those things you say about yourself are obvious to me, and to anyone. I was simply and I thought politely addressing someone whose situation in relation to marriage is so different from my own. If I had wanted to say ‘what can he know?’ I would have done so. The widespread credibility issue of celibate people talking about sex and marriage won’t be helped by angry responses to the mere mention of celibacy. I don’t have a problem with priests or religious sharing their views and haven’t suggested I do.

 

[edward_george1]

Your comment came off as a bit insulting, to be honest, hence the way I responded. I apologize if I wrongly surmised your intentions. And it simply isn’t factually true that “marriage isn’t a part of my life.” Which is the point I’m trying to make anyway. It gets easy to grow weary of the idea that priests are celibate, ergo they have no right to speak of marriage, I hear it a lot, mostly from Catholics oddly enough.

I’m feeling beat up in general by these forums lately. I’m sorry to take it out on you.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I was simply and I thought politely addressing someone whose situation in relation to marriage is so different from my own. If I had wanted to say ‘what can he know?’ I would have done so.

It wasn’t polite. It was dismissive. Whether or not you decided to be outright mean about it is neither here nor there. Father’s reaction is justified.

Father’s point is that a foundation for marriage where in people are less likely to confront issues because they are afraid of endangering their financial stability, can lead to problems in marriage. Before marriage people should be unencumbered when dealing with conflict. It is essential to the stability of a future marriage that both people are free to be open with one another without fear of retribution or harm. In this way, there is a stronger foundation upon which to compromise once you are a married couple. In a Catholic marriage there is no such thing as “free to leave”, as such, you should create as strong a foundation as possible with your partner before you are married. Cohabitation does not accomplish this.

And, just to pull back the veil a bit. I am a convert to the faith who did cohabitate with my spouse. Boy do I wish I had had the church to form my conscience around that issue before I did it. Several of the problems we have had to overcome are a direct result of having lived together and not felt free to address issues when they arose.

 

[midge13]

That’s the problem, people assume things. Gossiping is wrong , no matter if its’ true or false. It hurt’s people, period. Frankly, it’s none of your business, it would be between a priest and the two people sharing a place together.

 

[Lea101]

But if someone says they are treating their relationship as brother and sister, does that still make it okay?

So they’re not dating? Just male and female roommates?

If so, then there would be no scandal because nobody assumes roommates are together unless they’re dating. It’s apparently a norm with many young people, to live with other people to save rent, so it wouldn’t be causing scandal. You would have to be immature as heck to assume people are sleeping with each other.

If you’re dating, then it’s not a good idea. Because obviously, people who live together in our culture + are dating are usually having sex. So you have that issue. Also I just think it’s not helpful if you want to abstain from sex.

For instance, let’s say that I am seen going into and coming out of the local “house of ill repute” every weeknight.

Isn’t there a Saint who did this? He would evangelise the women there, and one day he was killed by a ‘scandalised’ man.

I also think your example isn’t a good one, probably. Mainly because there would be nothing wrong with what you were doing, as long as you get to clarify with people who ask you about it (instead of acting coy about it). I’m sure Jesus scandalised many when he affiliated himself with prostitutes and well known sinners in his community.

Scandal isn’t a clear cut issue

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

So even though you know nothing of the 10 couples sex lives in my marriage prep you believe that my priest and my marriage prep was in direct contradiction with the Church?

You priest didn’t say anything, so he didn’t contradict the Church. His failure to warn you was a contradiction to our spiritual duty to warn the sinner.

I’m glad that my parish wasn’t like that or maybe people would have left the church to marry somewhere else.

Then they wouldn’t have been taking Catholicism all that seriously, would they.

And that creates huge problems for Catholics.

Not even a little. That’s a problem for the people who leave the Church.

 

[tafan2]

While doing marraige prep at our parish, there is one common indicator my wife and I have noticed about couples preparing for marraige: it is almost always case that couple who do not live together are much better prepared for marraige than those who do.

 

[Maximus1]

Everyone can imagine. But unless you live in a commune or tiny rural village, I agree practically, it is nobody elses business. ( The community will not rise up in scandal.)
I don’t see how you can sin, unless you sin. But if you are romantic, a real belief nothing will happen is tough to have as a certainty.

 

[Patri]

Thank you. I wanted to be part of a Catholic community.

 

[Irishmom2]

That is where you are missing the “point” of scandal. It doesn’t matter what the couple is actually doing. People will see it as living together and it normalizes it. Others will point to so and so and begin to think there is nothing wrong with it. They could be leading others to sin by their example. But you are correct, it is between them and the priest as their confessor.

 

[MiserereMeiDei]

Scandal isn’t a clear cut issue

It is. Any time one publicly sins, entices others to sin or gives the appearance of sin it is scandal. Making it appear that a sin is not a sin, tempting another to sin or making it apparent that one doesn’t care about offending God is an occasion of scandal.