Living together but not having sex

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The only reasons I’ve seen is Edward george making the argument that people will hide things from each other. I disagree but at least it was an argument!
 
Those sections do not directly address it and are interpreted different ways. I doubt my entire marriage prep class and my priest would directly go against the catechism.
 
No after his posts at least 2 posts with at least 2 CCC quoted sections
 
This is a biblical example:

1 Cor 8 Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do.
9 Only take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
10 For if any one sees you, a man of knowledge, at table in an idol’s temple, might he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?
11 And so by your knowledge this weak man is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died.
12 Thus, sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.
13 Therefore, if food is a cause of my brother’s falling, I will never eat meat, lest I cause my brother to fall.

How does this apply to your question? We represent not only Christ but the Church. So if someone weak in the faith (someone who doesn’t know much or is new) sees people living together they aren’t going to question if they are having sex or not, but its a good bet they will as a couple living together that this is probably the case. Which can lead them to the believe that it is Ok to live together and have sex. This would be a stumbling block for them and as v 13 points out can cause them to fall.

St. Paul’s advise, since we actually are our brothers keeper, is that he would do nothing whatsoever to make his brother fall.

Please don’t get the impression from the text that it is ok to live together i.e. food to idols. St. Paul’s point is that the observer may think it is ok, through seeing you, to eat food that is actually offered to idols. The scandal is causing someone else to fall through your example.

If this helps, My wife and I lived in different apartments when we met. I moved in with my parents at 30 years old, she moved into my place due to it being cheaper. Six months later we were married and we already bought her a house with the saved money to move in the day we were married. That was 30 years ago, still married. FWIW statistics show that people who live together before marriage have a much higher rate of divorce than those who didn’t. The getting to know someone is bunk. What are you going to do leave them after your married because you don’t like the way they don’t make the bed or fold the laundry? That would be a cheap marriage indeed.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
You are saying there is black and white sections dealing with the posters question. I dont agree it is scandal. Could a boyfriend and girlfriend live in each side of a duplex? Or even in the same apartment building but different apartments? What if they are in the same hotel but different rooms but the rooms are next to each other!?
 
So even though you know nothing of the 10 couples sex lives in my marriage prep you believe that my priest and my marriage prep was in direct contradiction with the Church? I’m glad that my parish wasn’t like that or maybe people would have left the church to marry somewhere else. And that creates huge problems for Catholics.
 
twf said:
If a brother and sister live together, people may assume they’re a couple if they don’t advertise their situation. That’s the thing…most people don’t know whether a given man and woman are married, dating, siblings, roommates etc. I don’t really know where the sin of scandal comes up unless you’re living in a small gossipy village.
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Gossip is a sin. And either way:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13506d.htm
“For scandal to exist it is therefore essential and sufficient, with regard to the nature of the act and the circumstances under which it takes place, that it be of a nature to induce sin in another”
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Living with your sibling does no such thing. False assumptions are that: false assumptions.
Pnwcatholic said:
To me it isnt.
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You know, I wish I knew who said this, but I once heard someone say (I think it was a Dominican on Pints with Aquinas) that heresy never tries to correct itself: it instead tries to push the envelope as far as it can; it finds loopholes. The same I think can be said regarding sin in general. You seem to be doing precisely that with cohabitation:
Pnwcatholic said:
I dont think there is any scandal with this because of modern culture. It is the way people do things now.
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Pnwcatholic said:
I do know that all 10 couples in our marriage prep lived together.
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Pnwcatholic said:
The poster, and I took sex out of the equation.
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Pnwcatholic said:
And probably no more near occasion of sin than dark movie theater.
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Pnwcatholic said:
It’s like when people live with a sibling.
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Pnwcatholic said:
All I’ve seen is people saying “what will others think” in this day and age I can assure you, most people dont think anything about it.
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You can say society doesn’t care all you want, it doesn’t matter. Catholic morality is not dependent on how dead society’s moral conscience is. It is a near occasion to sin against chastity. It is in fact a sin to purposefully put one’s self in such an occasion. It isn’t a matter of caring whether or not people are shocked you’re living with someone who isn’t your wife. It’s a matter of letting other people think that one, your faith isn’t all that important, and two, that you’re okay with being in open violation of Church teaching. You are publicly living in a manner condemned by the Church.

If you want to see the effects of scandal, your marriage prep class demonstrated them: nobody protested, everyone was doing it, so it was “fine”. Nobody cared or was concerned that people could be fornicating and thus committing that mortal sin: everyone just minded their own business while their neighbors were killing their own souls.
 
I find it very refreshing that the concept of “scandal” even comes up in discussions such as these. That’s not a concept you hear much about anymore. These days, it is all about “you don’t know the circumstances”, “don’t be judgmental”, “it’s none of your business”, and similar sentiments.

Even if few people in today’s society are offended by a couple living together, still, the impression is given that they are having sex, and that they have no problem with sex before marriage. Fifty years ago, this was a no-brainer — they’re “shacking up”, and they shouldn’t be. Nobody said “maybe they’re just roommates, maybe they live like a brother and a sister”. There was a concept of “whether or not anything’s going on, it just doesn’t look right” when people were known to be in any kind of questionable circumstances. I don’t know what’s happened to people anymore.
 
No honestly, what’s the moral difference between living an an apartment and staying at the same hotel? They could have a two bedroom apartment right?
 
I hope the poster enjoys the discussion! I want to know more about what they think.
 
Sounds like you just want to make up your own rules of morality then and do not really care what the Church says. People have been telling you what the Church believes and you are rejecting it.
 
No. I’ve just never heard it. Again, this was never addressed in my marriage prep and we all lived together.
 
I am sorry you never heard of it, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Just because everyone is doing something doesn’t make it okay. Again, read the Catechism.
 
I don’t think I could stand to be in marriage prep with other couples. Also not all couples who live together ever even get married
 
Because I know of a couple who lived like brother and sister and were celibate for over 10 years. Very devout people
 
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Yeah but that is kind of my point. I would think that the couples who would break up living together probably shouldnt be married.
 
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