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uforever
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Thats what I thought!
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Vigis
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I forget where, but Jesus says that He is “I Am”. Then his fellow Jews pick up stones and threaten to stone Him. Does anyone know where this is? I think that it might be in John or Mark, but I can not be sure.
God speed.
Vigis
God speed.
Vigis
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Vigis
Guest
Found it! Read John 10:22-30. There you will find it. If you have any other questions about it uforever I suggest you start another thread and direct me to it. I will be happy to answer more questions.
God speed.
Vigis
God speed.
Vigis
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Verisimilitude
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Define orignial text.
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Volodymyr_988
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CDL is very wise and knows a lot about Islam and Dhimmitude. Read and re-read his posts.
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BelFarfalla
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I have spoken to Imam. I’ve studied islam for a long time… the issue is that Catholics choose to use the word ‘mystery’ for things. Muslims choose not to use the world mystery. There are indeed mysteries is both religions. Muslims just choose to speak of things in their religions as though it is obvious and concrete. it is not.I suggest you talk with someone in person ( a Imam) as you are mixing things up and apparently confused on the issue. Islam has NO mysteries.
So If you can believe that your “god” can die for you ; why is it such a leap of faith to believe that he can do something as simple as reveal a book. Would you really want a god who would die for you? That seems like a weakness.
As for God dying for us. God did not die. The human body used by God died… the flesh and blood part of Jesus. An example is the bush that God used when He spoke to Moses. Where is that bush today (it is not in the White House …
) . That bush is dead and long gone. God’s spirit occupied that bush, appeard as a burning bush that was not consumed. When God was done wth the using the bush God left. The bush died and turned into dust.
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exoflare
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I used to say this too, but later on I learned that it wasn’t quite correct. God certainly died, but this doesn’t pose the problem that Muslims assume it does… as if once anybody “dies” they don’t exist anymore. Any human still exists once they die, but their spirit is temporarily separated from their body.
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exoflare
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Thanks, but it doesn’t matter how you choose to phrase it… the Bible does not answer every question that could possibly be formulated. I don’t know why you keep bringing this up?
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exoflare
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No sorry, but logic is logic… there are not different types. When someone (as Muslims do) claims that “NO law from God ever changes” and yet Islam teaches that certain verses in the Quran were abrogated to make way for later teachings, they are defying logic because they have contradicted themselves and imposed a double-standard.
Regarding the example you mentioned (in which coincidentally, both sides happen to be correct!) this isn’t an illustration of two contradicting viewpoints - logic supports both of them, but it seems different people choose to focus on one aspect of suffering over the other for some reason.
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exoflare
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This is your reasoning, then, if I understand correctly?
IF a book is “rational”…
THEN it follows that the book must answer every rational question that can possibly be asked.
Sorry but this makes no sense. The conclusion clearly doesn’t follow from the premise.
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exoflare
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You may be right. However I have known this person for years and only recently did he start getting all bent out of shape about religious matters. Before he was just like a normal guy, but at some point after I started taking my own religion seriously he turned into a different person and now at certain times he seems to have this hidden agenda of promoting Islam. I guess Satan just left him alone before, when he faced no threat to the beliefs of his cult by being around me… I don’t know.
The funny thing is I never go out of my way to talk about Christianity to him. He just noticed himself that I was taking it a lot more seriously and researching stuff, and now he goes out of his way every now and then to make the typical half-baked Islamic “arguments” against me every now and then… you know the really cliched ones like how can God’s laws change and of course the Trinity being 1 and 3 at the same time and other thoughtless cookie-cutter slogans he regurgitates every now and then. He had let up on all this a little bit recently so I was kind of surprised yesterday when it happened.
I guess what I have to do next time it happens is to come right out and tell him to stop being such a coward and if he has an issue with something to come right out and say it, rather than making these backhanded passive comments. Enough is enough.
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exoflare
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Your claim that Islam is “logical” doesn’t make it so. Anymore than I can claim the world is flat.
btw, you don’t know what “mystery” means.
To put it bluntly, “muslim scholar” is an oxymoron. And hey guess what I have met imams before! So much for your assumption. They crank out the same half-baked arguments I hear from every other Muslim… the only difference is they have no one to pass the buck to like you are trying to do here, dumping the burden of proving Islam from yourself to some random Imam. All they can resort to is parroting “Allah knows best” when they can’t answer a question.
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exoflare
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exoflare
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Okay it seems my response marathon for today has finally come to a stopping point.
By the way, if anyone wants to finally try and address the original double standard that I brought up in the first place, please do so with my blessing!
By the way, if anyone wants to finally try and address the original double standard that I brought up in the first place, please do so with my blessing!
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anthony022071
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You would convert over an original text? Is that what faith should be based upon?
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exoflare
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Apparently it would make no difference. There is no major world religion today that still has the original texts for their scriptures.
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Greg27
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Islamic Philosophy and Philosophers did study logic (particularly when they translated Aristotle’s works including his Categories). Islamic Philosophical Logic is not an area I know about that much, but it doesn’t seem related to the thread, which is more about Islamic Law (shariah ) and the question of its interpretation and applicability.
Fundamentalist forms of Islam, both the Sunni (Wahabism) and Shia, take a very literalist and narrow interpretation of the Law, much like Christian fundamentalists do. The laws in the Qu’ran and also in the valid Hadith are the exact laws all humans must obey, as they are given by God (a similar argument comes from Christian fundamentalists about the laws in the Old and New Testaments).
Of course fundamentalism is not the only way of interpreting divine law in Islam or Christianity or in any religion. But many Muslims, as with many Christians and Jews and members of other faiths, turn to fundamentalism in opposition to the extensive de-sacralisation of society that they see in Western secular society and its aggressive and often militant forms of atheism and secularism, such as Marxism or secular humanism. The result is a strong emphasis and return to the traditional sources of faith, an absolute committment to every aspect of the faith (making it the centre of one’s existence) and a rigid inflexibility in making truth correspond exactly to reality.
This fellow seems to be trying to use fundamentalist Islamic law as a way of making visible his identity as a Muslim against the strongly secular society in which he is living. No doubt it helps maintain a certain sense of personal integrity and identity against the chaotic web of influences and cultural currents which exist in Postmodern Western society, which are often dehumanising and de-sacralising in many ways and drain reality of its beauty and wonder to be replaced by a shallow and crass materialism, relativism and consumerism which leaves people with no signposts to reality, contemplative reflection, or true peace and happiness.
Fundamentalist forms of Islam, both the Sunni (Wahabism) and Shia, take a very literalist and narrow interpretation of the Law, much like Christian fundamentalists do. The laws in the Qu’ran and also in the valid Hadith are the exact laws all humans must obey, as they are given by God (a similar argument comes from Christian fundamentalists about the laws in the Old and New Testaments).
Of course fundamentalism is not the only way of interpreting divine law in Islam or Christianity or in any religion. But many Muslims, as with many Christians and Jews and members of other faiths, turn to fundamentalism in opposition to the extensive de-sacralisation of society that they see in Western secular society and its aggressive and often militant forms of atheism and secularism, such as Marxism or secular humanism. The result is a strong emphasis and return to the traditional sources of faith, an absolute committment to every aspect of the faith (making it the centre of one’s existence) and a rigid inflexibility in making truth correspond exactly to reality.
This fellow seems to be trying to use fundamentalist Islamic law as a way of making visible his identity as a Muslim against the strongly secular society in which he is living. No doubt it helps maintain a certain sense of personal integrity and identity against the chaotic web of influences and cultural currents which exist in Postmodern Western society, which are often dehumanising and de-sacralising in many ways and drain reality of its beauty and wonder to be replaced by a shallow and crass materialism, relativism and consumerism which leaves people with no signposts to reality, contemplative reflection, or true peace and happiness.
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GregoryPalamas
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As has already been stated, no religion has any of its original texts so this is an empty comment. However, the texts that have stood the test of time and no religion on earth has ever scrutinized its own texts as completely as Christians demonstrate quite clearly that Jesus Christ is the God Man. John 1:1 for example or 8:28 are just two of countless ones. Since He has never left us or foresaken us, since the Church has always and everywhere believed this, and since the experience of billions affirm this, there is little reason to deny it. Get this right and everything else falls into place. Get it wrong and only chaos, darkness, violence, and death follow.
CDL
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GregoryPalamas
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You are very kind.CDL is very wise and knows a lot about Islam and Dhimmitude. Read and re-read his posts.
CDL
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GregoryPalamas
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I don’t know the percentage but from my understanding a growing majority of sermons of children’s lessons are coming out of the Wahhabi word factory in Saudi Arabia. This is rather troubling since they have not only the most violent understandings of Islam but also, from some other schools of Islam, the most skewed.
CDL
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