London?

[hawk]

UnworthySoul:

Will you stop with this nonsense? Jesus lived as a man on earth CENTURIES before Mohammed created his religion. Cannot aruge with it? You’re deluded if you believe that.

Unworthy relax!!!

Muslims only mean that Jesus taught submission, as Catholics, we agree with idea completely.

But we believe and know that Isa ibnu Allah taught much more than this. If they wish to deny it, it is entirely their prerogative.

 

[Booklover]

r.gonzales:

perhaps you mean can prove according to the bible that he was who it is said he claimed to be. however, muslims don’t believe in the bible - whatever conforms to islamic belief is accepted as the truth, whatever clearly contradicts islamic belief regarding jesus and his teachings is rejected and whatever is neither in conformity or contradictory to what we believe is left and is neither believed in or disbelieved in./QUOTE]

That has got to be one of the most arrogant statements I’ve ever heard! So if something in the Bible does not agree with your Qur’an it’s automatically “false”? Typical of your “prophet” wasn’t it? To discredit other people’s beliefs to make himself credible because he couldn’t provide real proof! Also the more I see of Muslim “superiority” the more I am reminded of those people who considered themselves “the master race”.

partially correct. we do not believe he was the son of God, or part of any trinity. but we believe he was a prophet and messenger sent to the children of israel by God. we believe that he was sent to call the children of israel to the worship of Allah alone, without associating anything in worship with Him. we believe in whatever has been conveyed to us about him by Allah in His Quran and upon the tongue of his final messenger, muhammad.

We already know what you believe, ad nauseam! Do you have to keep repeating it all the time?:tsktsk:

 

[JP2Admirer]

r.gonzales:

perhaps you should read a real biography of him before making such a claim.

What’s a real biography, one written by an Islamic apologist? That is not searching out a credible source, that is looking for a conclusion you already had in mind. You want Muhammad to be a good man, so his critics aren’t credible, only his apologists. That is not dialectical.

So, is a “real” source one that merely reflects conclusions you’ve already drawn? That my friend is the antithesis of an academic approach.

As for Christ not being crucified, you have to completely ignore history to come to that conclusion. He couldn’t fake it as the Roman guards would be killed in His stead if He didn’t die. He couldn’t have an imposter killed because the Jews were ready to revolt if He didn’t die. The Sanhedrin would have known who He was, and they would not have let an imposter in, or Jerusalem would’ve been in revolt.

Even if He somehow survived the crucifixion, He wouldn’t be up walking around three days later. Islam is merely a rehashing of the Gnostic heresy in regards to the Crucifixion.

 

[r.gonzales]

Booklover:

I post things like that just to annoy you!

you need to try harder.

 

[hawk]

Booklover:

perhaps you mean can prove according to the bible that he was who it is said he claimed to be. however, muslims don’t believe in the bible - whatever conforms to islamic belief is accepted as the truth, whatever clearly contradicts islamic belief regarding jesus and his teachings is rejected and whatever is neither in conformity or contradictory to what we believe is left and is neither believed in or disbelieved in.

Well its really simple, actually muslims will not be able to explain their own Qur’an to you or anyone else.

I wish to ask Muslims to explain to me

The verses regarding Adam and Eve in the garden of eden

As well what does it mean for Allah to breathe His spirit (ruh) into us

And How Jesus could have taught islam, if his teachings directly contrast in spirit and substance the Quran

And why the angels were made to prostrate to Adam.

You will find that muslims will not be able to answer any of these questions without resorting to making up fanciful theology about tests and pre-tests and pre-pre-tests.

In fact these stories fully support the Catholic understanding of our true nature, divine nature.

They have been borrowed by the Quran, and now create a problem for muslims to explain.

 

[JP2Admirer]

r.gonzales:

faulty reasoning JP, based on the premise that we hold the bible to be an authority on jesus’ life and teachings.

perhaps you mean can prove according to the bible that he was who it is said he claimed to be. however, muslims don’t believe in the bible - whatever conforms to islamic belief is accepted as the truth, whatever clearly contradicts islamic belief regarding jesus and his teachings is rejected and whatever is neither in conformity or contradictory to what we believe is left and is neither believed in or disbelieved in.

So a prophet of God can be wrong or can teach something opposite of the truth? Only half of Christ’s teachings are correct? That leads to the conclusion that God isn’t Truth, or at least He is willing to tell different people contradictory truths. That turns God into a misfit, liar, and puppet master. I guess if that’s what you believe…

If you are saying that Christ contradicted Muhammad (which He did) and then you claim that Christ is a prophet of God as well as Muhammad, then what does that make God? Is God willing to contradict Himself through different prophets? If so, then how can He be Truth? How can you trust anything God says if He alters what He tells you? How does truth contradict itself?

That then leads to not trusting anything that God says, if He contradicted Himself through different prophets. How do you trust anything Muhammad taught if he contradicted other prophets of God? That means that the only truth is that which God deems on a whim. That my friend is relativism, which is rationally untenable, and is actually the opposite of what you believe. That is a logical contradiction.

You say God is truth, then you say He contradicts Himself through different prophets. Is this what Muslims believe? If it is, then Islam contradicts itself.

 

[r.gonzales]

Booklover:

We already know what you believe, ad nauseam! Do you have to keep repeating it all the time?:tsktsk:

hahaha, that’s hilarious coming from someone who’s continually crying about muslims trying to discredit their beliefs. good one there, missy. :clapping:

 

[Faith101]

UnworthySoul:

Was the “woman” part necessary or was that inherent bigotry to women as inferior people showing through?

the woman makes no sense. Here you go, from another female.

man, give me a break…uh oh i said man, what was that?? i must be some kind of sexist

 

[LtTony]

Faith101:

the woman makes no sense. Here you go, from another female.

man, give me a break…uh oh i said man, what was that?? i must be some kind of sexist

And that’s the problem… you just don’t “get it.”

(Add: Your females wear a hajib, and I respect that. If a female here doesn’t want to to be addressed as “woman,” you sniff and reply with sarcasm.)

 

[LtTony]

JP2Admirer:

Here is another thread on the topic or Christs claim:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=60565

Matt 16: 13-20
Matt 26: 57-68

He was put to death for blasphemy, i.e. claiming that He was God.

Thanks for that, JP2. Several times I have heard Muslims say that Christ never proclaimed himself as God. The Jews at the time clearly understood him to be saying this; that is why they killed him. Each of us has to decide if that is true or not.
Good link, too. I would reply to my Muslim friends that Jesus and his disciples implicity and explicity stated that he was God on earth many times in Scripture.

Jim

 

[exoflare]

LtTony:

Thanks for that, JP2. Several times I have heard Muslims say that Christ never proclaimed himself as God. The Jews at the time clearly understood him to be saying this; that is why they killed him. Each of us has to decide if that is true or not.
Good link, too. I would reply to my Muslim friends that Jesus and his disciples implicity and explicity stated that he was God on earth many times in Scripture.

Jim

Yeah I had a Muslim friend who asked me if Jesus ever really claimed he was God and for a split second I wasn’t sure if he was serious or just testing me. I asked if what Muslims taught encompassed WHAT Jesus was even supposed put to death for. He said they never did. All they ever taught was that Jesus was “starting some kind of a revolution.” Of course, he wasn’t too clear on the details.

 

[LtTony]

manx:

Unless our arrogant government and its allies start changing their international policies ( this includes stopping the enforcement of an alien system like democracy to the Muslims who believe in the Shariah as the correct law ) in the Middle East, terrorism will continue. manx

I agree that democracy probably isn’t for Muslims, although at times some seem to be calling for it.
Are you saying that although terrorism is wrong, it should be expected (as a result of US foreign policy)?

rgonzales: I find it somewhat ironic when you state:

"anyone who lives in whatever country is subject to that country’s laws, regardless of what that country is.
any christian who has chosen to live in saudi, whether it be for business or some other reason, has chosen to live under the laws that they implement.

islam is a complete way of life, which not only includes legislations with respect to worship and daily conduct, it also includes a set of laws and regulations for how the islamic society is run. if they don’t like being subjected to the sharee’ah, then maybe they should leave saudi. (likewise any muslim who doesn’t like living under western law should leave those western countries if they are able)."

If I were a guest in another country, I would respect their way of life and not complain, so I REALLY appreciate your last line above.

Jim

 

[mjdonnelly]

Eetaq:

Your devieving k thanks.

Jesus was a musilm, since his message was one of submitting to the will of God, which you cant argue with.

And, we all know his teachings weren’t the same, Isa didn’t teach of salat or fasting in ramadhan, which we all know means he didnt teach the same.

however the Idea of monotheism and of good deeds is the same, almost exactly, between both teachings, so thus he did teach a similar lesson.

And, if you have always sought to love things before God (which you have been forbidden from doing) than why is it alright for you to love Jesus (I assume you dont love him the same way you love your wife and kids, but in a divine way)

Jesus wasn’t muslim, he was divine, the son of God, and part of God. So in loving Jesus, we are loving God.

 

[Joe_Monahan]

This thread is now closed.

Thank you to all who have participated.

Joe Monahan