Looking at womens' breasts

[Catholic90]

Sorry for the tangent to the thread.

Look at the picture. Look at history. Look at champion bodybuilders prior to the steriod age. Steve Reeves (Hercules) was a champion (world class) bodybuilder in the 50s. He is 1/2 the size of this guy. By today’s standards Steve Reeves would not make it to a state level competition.

Granted health and fitness/nutitional science has probably come a long way in that time but it is my opinion that human beings do not and can not look like the guy in the picure without the use of steriods/HGH. I believe it to be impossible. Getting substantially bigger and stonger is one thing. With good genetics and hard work people will grow bigger and stornger. But the person in that picture goes beyond this, the person in that picture (I strongly believe) has expanded his body beyond what could possibly be attained by natural means. It is unnatural and history would suppoet this notion. Nobody on the planet earth looked that way prior to performance enhancing drugs. Nobody, not a single person on earth.

I used to look up to bodybuilders much of my life. I no longer do. Although I can understand the competive lure of powerlifting / wieghtlifting /stong man contests, there is something about the “sport” of bodybuilding that just simply doesn’t sit right with me. It seems to me to against the entire concept of humility.

This is Steve Reeves: I would hardly say is 1/2 the size of the original pic I posted. He is pretty well built. Pretty similar to the first guy I posted. Dedicated weight lifters CAN look this way without steroids…2 of my BILs do! One of my BILs has biceps that are bigger in circumference than my 17 year old’s thigh!
http://www.emusclor.com/img/i/v-stats-biceps-steve-reeves.jpg

OP, Steve Reeves would not be too thrilled with you staring at his wife’s, daughter’s, granddaughter’s, or sister’s chests…

 

[Catholic90]

You ask if it’s wrong to go deliberately looking at the breasts of ladies younger than yourself (even if you are not imagining having intimate relations with them).

The answer is simple.

YES IT IS WRONG.

Stop doing it.

IMMEDIATELY.

And stop looking for loopholes. There aren’t any.

^^

 

[Mijoy2]

This is Steve Reeves: I would hardly say is 1/2 the size of the original pic I posted. He is pretty well built. Pretty similar to the first guy I posted. Dedicated weight lifters CAN look this way without steroids…2 of my BILs do! One of my BILs has biceps that are bigger in circumference than my 17 year old’s thigh!
http://www.emusclor.com/img/i/v-stats-biceps-steve-reeves.jpg

OP, Steve Reeves would not be too thrilled with you staring at his wife’s, daughter’s, granddaughter’s, or sister’s chests…

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Although that is a goo picture of Reeves I still suggest he is dwarfed by the man in your original picture. Reeves had 17-18" biceps. The guy in the picture is well over 20". Big difference

I have lifted weights for 43 years now. Belonged to many gyms and have seen people progress as well as have progressed myself. I can progress by as much as 40-50% (additional weight lifted) if I work hard form many months, then I level off and progress very slowly if at all after that point. This is how the human body works.

Virtually nobody would ever admit to using steriods. I believe there are two reasons for this. One, it is illegal therefore it would be pretty stupid to admit to doing something illegal. Two, their critical thinking abilities pursuades them to deny it. Reason is because anybody can become big and strong if they take drugs, there is not much there to be admired.

In 55 years on this earth and most of those years in gyms, I have never seen a person gain more then modest amounts (40-50% increases) without the use of drugs. People simply do not go from benching pressing 150 lbs to 400-500lbs because they train hard. It doesn’t work that way. Again, sorry, just way too many years studying this to be pursuaded otherwise.

Granted there is an exception to every rule. There is the 6 sigma individuals. But that doesn’t explain the explosion that has occured.

Your average NFL lineman in the 70s was 230-250lbs. Some where less. Now it’s rare to see one under 300lbs with many 320-330 and more. The human being has not changed that much in a few short decades. When I was in high school there was not 1 kid who could BP 300Lbs in my school. Now a very large percentage can. Unfortunatley these drugs are rampant in high schools.

Ahh for the good old days

 

[Catholic90]

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Yes, we will have to disagree.

My BIL is a police officer, and he is BUILT like a brick %$#% house. He definitely does nothing illegal to gain those muscles. He lifts, runs, works out, etc.

 

[StarFireKK]

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Although that is a goo picture of Reeves I still suggest he is dwarfed by the man in your original picture. Reeves had 17-18" biceps. The guy in the picture is well over 20". Big difference

I have lifted weights for 43 years now. Belonged to many gyms and have seen people progress as well as have progressed myself. I can progress by as much as 40-50% (additional weight lifted) if I work hard form many months, then I level off and progress very slowly if at all after that point. This is how the human body works.

Virtually nobody would ever admit to using steriods. I believe there are two reasons for this. One, it is illegal therefore it would be pretty stupid to admit to doing something illegal. Two, their critical thinking abilities pursuades them to deny it. Reason is because anybody can become big and strong if they take drugs, there is not much there to be admired.

In 55 years on this earth and most of those years in gyms, I have never seen a person gain more then modest amounts (40-50% increases) without the use of drugs. People simply do not go from benching pressing 150 lbs to 400-500lbs because they train hard. It doesn’t work that way. Again, sorry, just way too many years studying this to be pursuaded otherwise.

Granted there is an exception to every rule. There is the 6 sigma individuals. But that doesn’t explain the explosion that has occured.

Your average NFL lineman in the 70s was 230-250lbs. Some where less. Now it’s rare to see one under 300lbs with many 320-330 and more. The human being has not changed that much in a few short decades. When I was in high school there was not 1 kid who could BP 300Lbs in my school. Now a very large percentage can. Unfortunatley these drugs are rampant in high schools.

Ahh for the good old days

I’m sorry but I think you are being pretty uncharitable. Genetics, length and frequency of training, types of training all go into how we build muscle. My understanding of how steroids work is they increase the blood flow and expand the veins. That’s why in a lot of pictures of bodybuilders you see their veins all over the place. In the picture Catholic90 posted you only see his veins on his forearms which is pretty normal.

I’m a woman and I can bench press 175 lbs and I promise you I’ve never touch steroids. If I can bench that much of course men bigger than me can bench a lot more,

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

Is it sinful to look at the breasts of young ladies while shopping. I do it more out of habit than anything else. No lustful thoughts or sexual arousal, just the thought of young breasts. Breasts, as in the Song of Songs, can be a sacred image.

Breasts can be symbolic of spiritual nourishment. Again, breasts are sometimes used in the bible to denote something sacred.

“There’s no question: Gazing at breasts makes men healthier.” This is a typical response from one of many studies that makes this claim (just Google it).

OP, you can cherry pick the Bible and use the powers of your Google-fu to justify all kinds of behavior. My suggestion, if you truly want to know if it’s sinful to “…to look at the breasts of young ladies while shopping,” is to bring your self-selected Bible passages and Google research to your confessor and ask him if your behavior is sinful.

And then report back to us his response. We’ll be here waiting.

I usually stare when someone is dressing sexy, so I don’t think they mind my admiring their breasts.

You know, 35 years ago rapists and their defense lawyers used to make the same argument for sexual assault. It’s called victim blaming. (just Google it)

Luna

 

[Bookcat]

Can it be sinful? Yes (disordered in various ways depending on various factors. Can be contrary to modesty, or even chastity, dignity of the person etc (note I have not read all the posts here…I am referring in a general way to the q in the title)

(note too one must distinguish as to what is being done…there is a difference certainly between looking lustfully…and happening to notice an attractive person in a modest and chaste etc way etc…and of course there can be a sort of “automatic” draw at times of the eyes of men that happens…but we need to practice too a custody of the eyes)

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness.** It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.**

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

 

[Bookcat]

What is needed?

Prudence, modesty, temperance in general, of course chastity…

and a reasonable:

Custodia Occulorum (custody of the eyes)

 

[maplebug55]

what about looking at nude art forms from the 1700’s ?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I realize that looking at breasts can be sinful. What I’m interested in is whether it’s a sin from what I posted in the OP? No lustful thoughts or sexual feelings!

 

[DexUK]

Haven’t you had enough answers by now?

You’re doing it deliberately.

IT IS WRONG!

And I would strongly counsel you that it was a sin, against chastity, virtue, modesty, covetousness. It would be a sin in your heart against the person of the woman you beheld, and, if perceived by that woman, a sin in action in making her feel threatened, objectified, etc.

The fact that you have admitted doing this deliberately and repeatedly is more than enough evidence for the sinfulness of it.

I won’t tell you whether you’re being mortally sinful or venially sinful since that is not my judgement to make. I will tell you to go to confession though and to stop doing it.

 

[Marie5890]

I realize that looking at breasts can be sinful. What I’m interested in is whether it’s a sin from what I posted in the OP? No lustful thoughts or sexual feelings!

The answer Robert is that the thoughts DONT have to be lustful or sexual in order for what you are doing to be it a sin.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The answer Robert is that the thoughts DONT have to be lustful or sexual in order for what you are doing to be it a sin.

What about my looking at the nude art in the Sistine Chapel? Is this a sin too? Why would it be OK to look at the nude art in the Sistine Chapel but not in looking the breasts of the women around you?

 

[Marie5890]

What about my looking at the nude art in the Sistine Chapel? Is this a sin too? Why would it be OK to look at the nude art in the Sistine Chapel but not in looking the breasts of the women around you?

Art forms are not living human beings created in the image of God who are due respect and dignity.

Im guessing that you dont realize that you are demonstrating disrespect and robbing those women, regardless of age, of their right to human dignity and respect.

 

[Bookcat]

Can it be sinful? Yes (disordered in various ways depending on various factors. Can be contrary to modesty, or even chastity, dignity of the person etc (note I have not read all the posts here…I am referring in a general way to the q in the title)

(note too one must distinguish as to what is being done…there is a difference certainly between looking lustfully…and happening to notice an attractive person in a modest and chaste etc way etc…and of course there can be a sort of “automatic” draw at times of the eyes of men that happens…but we need to practice too a custody of the eyes)​

Catechism:

2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

---

As to looking at paintings …well one must know oneself and make a judgment (for some it can be problematic others not…again it also depends on the painting).

And there is a difference between looking a live person and a painting.

---

What is needed?

Prudence, modesty, temperance in general, of course chastity…

and a reasonable:

Custodia Occulorum (custody of the eyes)

 

[Marie5890]

Catechism:

2521 Purity requires modesty, an integral part of temperance. Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

2522 Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

2523 There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

Thanks Bookcat for this.

Yes, modesty. And what is that I have seen posted a couple of times

“practicing custody of the eyes”…

We need to be in control of not only our minds, but our bodies, which includes our eyes.

 

[McGhee]

If it is a sin every man on Earth is guilty its a very natural thing but yeah i would say if your in a relationship with someone it would be considered lustful and that sort

 

[Marie5890]

If it is a sin every man on Earth is guilty its a very natural thing but yeah i would say if your in a relationship with someone it would be considered lustful and that sort

McGhee, you clearly havent read the thread.

 

[McGhee]

McGhee, you clearly havent read the thread.

right sorry