Looking for an Orthodox Catholic magazine that does NOT support illegal immigration in the U.S.

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I think the OP is in a lost cause. He wants a magazine that agrees with the Church on everything except one issue that he disagrees with. Rest assured, if you find a magazine that is against the Church on this issue, it will also be against the Church on other issues.

Unless what you are looking for is a magazine that is silent on issues like immigration. That might be possible. I do not think This Rock has addressed the topic…yet.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
All the law of God hangs on the greatest commandments, which means loving God and loving our neighbour. Who is my neighbour the lawyer asked trying to justify himself?

And Jesus gave us the parable of the ‘Good Samaritan’ which did not go down well with the Jewish way of thinking. If Jesus was telling that parable today he might say about an American victim in the gutter, the priest and the deacon walk by, but the Mexican Muslim stops to help.

Blessings

Eric
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I don’t quite understand what that has to do with lawbreakers.

Are laws just written for the elite? Are they written for everyone? Should we allow poor people to break any law they please from a deviated sense of ‘compassion?’
 
Eric_Hyom said:
Please tell me your ancestors are native American, and your ancestors are not illegal immigrants from Europe who took America from the Indians by force.

Just one small point, we can put boarders and boundaries up where we like, but all the land belongs to God, we are all temporary custodians, and all people are God’s children.

Blessings

Eric
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This makes little sense. Even American Indians came over from Asia and ‘took’ the land that belonged to others.

My ancestors came here legally. What is it about applying the law to just a few that appeals to you so much?

As for some others in this thread, I was not aware that the Church is in favor of illegal aliens.
 
The Diversity Visa (DV) Green Card Lottery
January, 2002
Notice: Immigration laws and regulations can change very quickly, and you should not rely upon this article to reflect the latest changes in the law. Obtaining a non-immigrant visa can be complicated, and visa applications may be denied. While many individuals successfully navigate the application process on their own, it is often beneficial to utilize a qualified immigration attorney.
B]The diversity visa (DV) lottery, or green card lottery, was created in 1990 in order to encourage immigration from nations with low levels of immigration to the United States. As the goal of the lottery is diversity, a new list of qualifying nations is created for each year’s lottery based upon the prior year’s immigration levels, with the greatest number of visas allocated to geographic regions with the lowest immigration rates.
Residents of qualifying nations may fill out and submit a simple for inclusion in the lottery. In order to qualify, applicants must have a high school education or equivalent, or within five years of application have at least two years of work experience in an occupation that requires at least two years of training or experience.
Registration for the DV green card lottery usually occurs between October and early November of each year. Successful registrants are usually notified of the results between April and July of the following year. Only one application is permitted per individual per year. If an applicant submits more than one registration form, that person will be disqualified from participation in the lottery.
Unsuccessful applicants must submit a new application each year. Applications from prior years are not included in subsequent green card lotteries.
While there are a large number of services which offer to assist with application for the green card lottery for a fee, no service can improve an applicant’s chance of being chosen in the lottery or guarantee an entry will win. If you encounter a service making that type of promise, the service is trying to cheat you.

The reasons for Mexican’s NOT qualiying are in the above. Seems they have shot themselves in their own foot by flooding the border into this country.
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
No—we can not.

There is a clear dividing line between right and wrong.

It is wrong to allow illegal aliens to break our country’s laws. It is wrong to allow abortion.

If you showed up on my step asking for bread, that is a different story. But allowing for lawbreaking because of race or religion is wrong, period.

If you love your neighbor you do not allow him to break the law ‘just because’ of color or ethnicity. That way lies the slippery slope.
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You’d give him bread, but you wouldn’t allow him to do work no one will take in order to earn it?

This has nothing to do with color, or at least the willingness to let people work doesn’t. Nobody is stopping the whites who want to work at the border and letting the browns across. This also isn’t an easy question. It is really frustrating to hear Catholics talk as if it were.
Sailor_Kenshin said:
I don’t quite understand what that has to do with lawbreakers.

Are laws just written for the elite? Are they written for everyone? Should we allow poor people to break any law they please from a deviated sense of ‘compassion?’
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Should Jesus have healed on the Sabbath?

I hope every Catholic understands the concept that civil laws are only binding insofar as they do not violate divine law. I’ll take the bishops sense of how laws are binding and how they are not binding over someone who calls their sense of compassion “deviated”, as well.

No one, including the bishops, is asking that people under a certain income bracket be allowed to break any law they please. They’re asking that people who can’t find legal work to feed themselves and their children just possibly get an ounce of room to do work that is otherwise left undone.

Incidentally, the OP will have launched his own magazine before this thread dies.
 
EasterJoy said:
You’d give him bread, but you wouldn’t allow him to do work no one will take in order to earn it?
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You really think that with the economy the way it is, there are jobs out there that people who are here legally wouldn’t do? Do you think that companies who break the law and hire illegals should maintain their financial advantage over companies who who follow the law and hire people here legally?
 
EasterJoy said:
You’d give him bread, but you wouldn’t allow him to do work no one will take in order to earn it?

This has nothing to do with color, or at least the willingness to let people work doesn’t. Nobody is stopping the whites who want to work at the border and letting the browns across. This also isn’t an easy question. It is really frustrating to hear Catholics talk as if it were.

Should Jesus have healed on the Sabbath?

I hope every Catholic understands the concept that civil laws are only binding insofar as they do not violate divine law. I’ll take the bishops sense of how laws are binding and how they are not binding over someone who calls their sense of compassion “deviated”, as well.

No one, including the bishops, is asking that people under a certain income bracket be allowed to break any law they please. They’re asking that people who can’t find legal work to feed themselves and their children just possibly get an ounce of room to do work that is otherwise left undone.

Incidentally, the OP will have launched his own magazine before this thread dies.
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So law is conditional upon need?

That means I can break into your house, take your money, your clothes, your food, even possibly your life—as long as I feel I have enough of a ‘need.’

That way lies anarchy.

Are you proposing anarchy?

Do you belive in objective right and wrong?

Or is everything relative—to perceived ‘need?’
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
So law is conditional upon need?

That means I can break into your house, take your money, your clothes, your food, even possibly your life—as long as I feel I have enough of a ‘need.’

That way lies anarchy.

Are you proposing anarchy?

Do you belive in objective right and wrong?

Or is everything relative—to perceived ‘need?’
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I never said feelings were the arbiter of need. I’m also not sure what possible need you have of my life. If you were starving and broke into my house for food, or without clothing and tried to steal mine, though, I wouldn’t press charges. How could I? Tell yourself the truth. If a starving person did that to us, the crime would shame us, not the thief.

Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven. I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven…
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well. If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well. Should anyone press you into service for one mile, go with him for two miles. Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow.”
Matt. 5: 17-20, 38-42

While we are talking about law and anarchy, though, what about the law that “I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me?” When the Lord described who would be condemned and who would not, he didn’t mention theft once, did he? Not one single time. When he was confronted with the adulterous woman, the one whom the law said ought to be stoned, he refused to condemn her, too. As he said: he didn’t come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it.

What conclusion might we draw from that, concerning the heirarchy of law that ought to be in play here? Should we write and observe our laws only with concern to how they apply to what we feel entitled to have out of this life, and let the road to hell be as broad and unmarked as we can possibly make it? This is a democracy, after all. What the laws say is on our heads, too. (I tremble to write that.)

The hard truth is that bishops may only recognizing that, in terms of the laws that really count, anarchy is what we already have! 😦

How’s that for objective?
 
copeland45 said:
I’m looking to subscribe to a magazine that teaches and discusses traditional Catholic values from an Orthodox perspective. Unfortunately, every magazine I have seen so far lends their support to the USCCB’s decision to support illegal immigration and “amnesty.” I cannot agree with this policy that rewards people for violating their fellow human beings by: illegally moving into their country, violating their laws, selfishly usurping the limited resources of legal taxpayers who are struggling to raise their own families, and then claim to be “victims.”

This is hardly an un-Christian view. It is a sane view.

I guess I’m looking for a magazine that teaches Christianity AND common sense and isn’t afraid to call a spade a spade. Anyone have any recommendations??

Thanks
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Hi Copeland,

I realize I’m coming in late (I’m never able to really “follow” the threads), and maybe someone has mentioned this already, but I’m concerned by your question. The immigration issue seems to me to be one that the Church allows diversity on, so long as the different opinions are all held in Charity. What concerns me is that you are looking for a magazine that is “Catholic AND…” and that you don’t seem interested in reading one that differs in anyway from you own opinions (I hope I’m misinterpreting, and please feel free to correct me if I am 🙂 ) Looking for something that is “Catholic and…” indicates that “Catholic” isn’t enough, which is troubling.

If you’ve been having trouble finding an orthodox magazine that also holds your opinion on immigration, it might be an indication that your opinions need to be revisited; OR, if it’s just too frustrating to read opinions within the Church that oppose your own, it may be time to work on your charity and humility. Either way it might be helpful to chose magazines based more on the quality of thought in the magazine, the quality of writing, and the magazine’s ability to make you think, rather than the magazine’s confirmation of everything you already think.

I also want to mention that “common sense” is not a Christian virtue, though it is something that is helpful in our temporal success. “Common sense” is useful in it’s own sphere, but in relation to Christ and the Church, it is often a stumbling block to the sort of radical love we are called to live. (I’m not saying this to argue for or against illegal immigration, so please don’t take it that way).

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, I’m not in anyway trying to say that you are less of a Catholic because of your position on immigration, my issue is with your way of insulating your opinion, not your opinion itself. Enjoy The Wanderer, and whatever other magazines you might discover!

Blessings,
Masha
 
The romanticized idea of the hardworking and motivated illegal alien “just coming here to work a terrible job so his family doesn’t starve” and who refuses public assistance is simply a fabrication of the left, and if you lived in Southern California like I do, you’d know that.
 
JackieMom said:
The romanticized idea of the hardworking and motivated illegal alien “just coming here to work a terrible job so his family doesn’t starve” and who refuses public assistance is simply a fabrication of the left, and if you lived in Southern California like I do, you’d know that.
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I’m sorry Jackie Mom, but do you actually know and talk to these immigrants? Or are you a typical knee jerk when it comes to this issue and wants these immigrants gone? I’m against illegal immigration too, but I think we have to be careful generalizing all illegal immigrants as murderers. Are there murderers? I’m sure there are, but there are also those who just want to work for their families as well.

I taught in a small town with a large meat packing plant that hired a large hispanic work force. I don’t know how many illegals there were, and while i’m sure a few might have abused the system. Most I knew were just working people. Also, this town that was once mostly white did not become some crime ridden community because of it, and also there weren’t very many lazy people on the streets. Now maybe So Cal is different, but please be careful and think about what you are saying. Also, this isn’t a left or right issue. The USCCB is not for full amnesty, but calls for us to be charitable. Shouldn’t we do things like give them services and maybe help them get citizenship and try to be productive if they make it? or should we just throw’em back. I too think we need stricter border control, but those already here illegally are the ones I think the USCCB is addressing. We need to help them become productive citizens, and by we, I mean the church and us as individuals, not the government.

One last thing to everybody else. I know probably almost all of us are the descendants of immigrants, but don’t say the whole “my family immigrated legally”. Until the 20’s there were no immigration laws except for the Chinese. You could come as you please and many did. In fact I’d say there would not be much of the Church if not for immigrants. So in a sense we had amnesty. And while I don’t support amnesty by any means, the US did it in the past, and we turned out okay (and don’t give me, “They wanted a better life” sure many did, but you could cherry pick and say that there were immigrant gang members and they brought crime, as i’m sure some did when groups of Europeans came over here 100 years ago.)

Also, to the OP, I understand that you have your views, and what the bishops said is not Dogma. However, we have to be charitable and that is a dogma from Christ. I know Christ wouldn’t be racist (as I hope you are not racist), but he would say that we need his church to help those who need it.
 
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