Looking for ideas to make Mass and the Church more meaningful

[Ernie07]

I tend to think that Mass is similar to one’s job in that for both of them, you get out of them pretty much what you put into them.

If you make minimal effort, just do what is absolutely required, and are lazy/ not concentrating/ being distracted/ looking for any excuse to slack or sneak out early etc. then it’s just fulfilling an obligation, not really seizing the opportunity to make it something special for yourself. That’s not to say that we aren’t all going to have days when we are just not “on” and maybe have to go through the motions because we are tired or distracted, and also there are likely to be things and/or people in both places who are less than inspiring to us, but it does mean that we should make an effort both places and not just show up with the idea of “here we are, now keep us engaged and entertained or we just won’t bother next time”.

I somewhat agree, but with a job the effort you put in allows you to have shelter, eat, and pay for things…there is an acknowledged level of importance attached to that job. The big question for me is do most Catholics even understand or acknowledge the importance of Jesus or the Church in their lives. If so, and they still put little into it, then they’re just lazy or apathetic. If not, then it is just based on ignorance. But, in either case we need to find a way to make Jesus and the Church important to as many as possible. The question is how can we do that?

With respect to the homily, I have noticed in recent years that they seem to be much better than they were 20 years ago. I attribute part of this to me growing in wisdom and being more receptive and better able to appreciate what the priest is saying, but I also think they must be attending some courses on speaking nowadays or perhaps I am just in an area with better priests. I had a priest at a previous parish who was a good and holy and righteous priest, but he preached on the same specific topic almost every week and since he was usually the only priest at our parish unless he had a visiting priest in, it got old real fast. The topic was also a depressing one (it involved persecutions of martyrs) and I wondered at the time if the priest was struggling himself with depression or something because it was just so dour and didn’t seem to bear much relation to his parishioners, who were also for the most part from a very different background and far less scholarly and educated than himself.

I hear you that some priests aren’t very gifted when it comes to speaking and maybe should spend more time improving in this area. I just wish the ability of the priest to speak wasn’t the primary reason whether people liked or disliked a particular Mass.

I also think that whatever you try to do with the Mass, some people will like it and some will hate it.

I agree and that’s why we need to get all Catholics to focus on the unchanging aspects of the Mass (e.g. Eucharist, readings, etc.) Somehow, someway, we need to help Catholics to love Jesus, love scripture, love the Church, and love the Mass. No problem…haha!

Thanks for your thoughts!

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

I always get something from Mass. Some homilies are better than others, sometimes a mass can be a little monotone without a choir, sometimes maybe a priest is not what one is expecting. Even then, Mass is a spiritual occurrence, primarily; therefore, these external things do not stop God having an effect on the soul.

Hi Friarchips,

If you don’t mind me asking, why do you always get something out of Mass? What do you mean by a “spiritual occurrence”? To me, it’s all about the Eucharist, which is both spiritual and physical so I’m just curious.

Prayer events. Everything begins with prayer. Prayer opens our hearts to God and His inspirations, that we can be given the grace to act and do His Will.

Same answer. Maybe invite people to do something creative. And ask God to bless your ideas. If you have any specific skills, ask God to utilize them. Also, keep an eye out for little jobs you can be given too, in and around the parish. From taking part in these duties, you might then have more ideas.

Agreed. Pray the Rosary and you’ll find a way to do what it is your heart is telling you.

I agree with your thoughts on prayer…sometimes I call it a dialogue with God. Sometimes my “prayer” is just talking to God in almost comically simple ways…almost as if He was next to me.

I also like your idea of inviting people. I wonder how many are shy or don’t think they could offer anything and therefore don’t get involved. Someone else on this thread spoke about making it personal and I wonder sometimes if an invitation can be more than a general calling from the podium or bulletin and actually calling or speaking to people on an individual level. Is that even possible at some of the bigger parishes…it would be awesome if we can do whatever necessary to bring a small parish atmosphere to even the bigger congregations.

Thanks for your thoughts!

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

Many times in order to lead us to a greater holiness God will withhold His consolations. This is I believe why mass is boring for many people. This gives you the opportunity to give yourself more fully to God.

Hi Poche,

I’m sorry, but I don’t quite understand where you’re coming from. Would you mind explaining in greater detail? Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[Usige]

I’ve been to many of these services and it is very lively and engaging with people seemingly “on fire” for the Lord. They do feel that they are in an intimate relationship with Jesus…actually a few are former Catholics that didn’t feel that intimacy at Mass. I believe they love Jesus with all their hearts.

Let me start out by saying I don’t have any great answers for you. I often think that “being on fire” can be dangerous if that energy is not directed to build a long term good. I can start a camp fire with lighter fluid or gasoline and it will burn nice and hot… for a little bit. The problem is that it can burn out just as quickly.

I don’t doubt their feelings, but I relate it to the difference between “being in love” and “loving” someone. “Being in love” is often inward focused and is based on the euphoria of a new relationship. Most of us know people, or have been in our own relationships, were the other person is the center of the universe until one day it’s not exciting and we come to antipathy for the other person. On the other hand “loving” someone is about doing for their sake and not our own. I love my wife even if I don’t feel the same spark when we started dating 25 years ago.

My point is that feelings are things that can be manipulated, for good or ill. If our relationship with Christ is built purely on how it makes us feel, then it is an immature faith at best and potentially superficial.

So, how can the Catholic Church get more people “on fire” for the Lord and the Catholic Church?

I am always leery of people who were “on fire” but then had to go somewhere else because they needed to be reignited for lack of a better term. As such the point shouldn’t be to set people’s hearts ablaze without using that fire to temper them to weather storms of desolation.

So how do we do it? I think it has to include real honesty that God sends us both times of consolation and desolation. If people are simply looking to the Church for a euphoric high then there is no chance of long term relationship. We need to be willing to walk with people at all stages of life. I think many people try to focus purely on the “feel good” and dismiss things like devotions to Our Lady of Sorrows. It is in times of desolation that I have found the greatest founts of faith. It is in sitting at the foot of the Cross weeping with Mary that I have found the strength to pick myself up. If we only look to be a place to ignite people without being there to also help tend and bank the fires to keep the coal aglow then we miss the point.

I would agree that we need to be clear about what differentiates the Catholic faith, but as you have said many people aren’t interested in the Eucharist or any of those things that set’s the Church apart. That is where I don’t know what the answer is. I can talk people through that have doubts, but are open to hearing Christ’s redemptive message. Those who firmly plug there ears? I don’t know. I often wonder about how Christ let people leave when he spoke of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. He didn’t chase after them. Should we try to win hearts that are firmly set against His message? Of course we should, but I think it also means letting people walk away.

Personally I think the way to strengthen people’s faith is through small group encounters and hearing writings from Teresa of Avila or other spiritual masters. Just as Christ became flesh we need to draw people out of a purely physical experience into a spiritual union with Christ. This would have to be done realizing that people are at different places so where some might need a charismatic entry other might need a contemplative option. The goal though is to always encourage people to grow in faith so that the physical/emotional experience is secondary or no longer important.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m looking for ideas for my parish to be more passionate Catholics. To help them be more alive in their love of Jesus, the Mass/Eucharist, and the teachings of the Church as a whole. My belief is that all 3 need to be integrated to make for a passionate and “on fire” Catholic.

My reasoning is that a love of Jesus without love for the Mass/Eucharist or the teachings of the Church equals a Protestant. A love of Jesus and the Mass/Eucharist without a love of the teachings of the Church leads to “cafeteria Catholics” that doubt certain aspects of what the Church teaches. But a Catholic that loves Jesus, the Mass/Eucharist, and all teachings of the Church produces a passionate Catholic that can spread like wild fire.

That’s at least my theory. Feel free to answer my questions, respond to my above theory, or provide any ideas you may have. Thank you in advance for your thoughts and (name removed by moderator)ut!

-Ernie-

Be that yourself. I don’t know of a “program” that replaces the role of a humble and holy fellow parishioner.

Pray for your pastor, too.

Do you wish to know if the people of any place are righteous? Look what sort of a pastor they have. If you find him pious, just, sound, believe the people will be the same, for they are seasoned with the salt of his wisdom.
St. John Chrysostom

And this one, too:
“Do you wish your prayer to fly toward God? Give it two wings: fasting and almsgiving.” —Saint Augustine.

And this:
“You must propagate veneration of the Most Blessed Sacrament with all your might, for the devotion to the Holy Eucharist is the queen of all devotions.”
Pope Benedict XV

 

[poche]

Hi Poche,

I’m sorry, but I don’t quite understand where you’re coming from. Would you mind explaining in greater detail? Thanks.

-Ernie-

Many times when we pray and we feel good that is because we are receiving consolation from God. Many people believe that when they receive these consolations it is a sign that they are growing in holiness. And in a way that is true. However true union with God is union with Him on the Cross. In order to lead us to this greater union many times He will take away this feeling of consolation so that we may be led to a greater holiness.

 

[Usige]

Many times when we pray and we feel good that is because we are receiving consolation from God. Many people believe that when they receive these consolations it is a sign that they are growing in holiness. And in a way that is true. However true union with God is union with Him on the Cross. In order to lead us to this greater union many times He will take away this feeling of consolation so that we may be led to a greater holiness.

Thanks, poche. You described it well.

I heard a spiritual director once describe it like helping your children. You might offer to help with say their insurance when they first move out, but after a while you don’t pay it if you want them to grow more independent. Consolation is not a prize we earn, but rather is a grace given to us in order to grow spiritually. Conversely, desolation is not God punishing us, but rather Him giving us the chance to stand on our own feet. It’s the parent letting go of their toddler’s hands so that they can learn to walk unaided. It might be scary, but is part of growing to have a healthy and loving relationship with God.

I think many in modern society are so addicted to the adrenaline rush of feel good pop psychology that they can become spiritually stunted. Many charismatic mega churches bank on that to draw people back week after week. If you are feeling down, come get a shot of feelgood worship. The problem is it rarely unites us with Christ who so loved us that He was brutally tortured for our sins. The crucifix, the Pieta, Our Lady of Sorrows, et cetera all speak of death to self for love of the other. People don’t want to hear that, but that is one of the central messages of Christ.

We have lost an understanding of the value of redemptive suffering and the fact that steel is not forged through fire alone, but it is tempered and gains strength by the cycle of heat and quenching. That is the purpose of the cycles of consolidation and desolation in my understanding… to strengthen us in our faith.

 

[friardchips]

Hi Friarchips,

friard…sorry, not yet. I also considered Friardrice, as an option for a username!

If you don’t mind me asking, why do you always get something out of Mass? What do you mean by a “spiritual occurrence”? To me, it’s all about the Eucharist, which is both spiritual and physical so I’m just curious.

Hi.Thank you for replying. By “spiritual”, I mean receiving Jesus in Holy Communion and the blessing from attending Mass. Also, the homilies - even if people don’t think they are getting something from a homily, the truth will sink in, on some level. And of course, listening to the readings and the Gospel, is vital. All of this is in essence, spiritual. And will help the soul to grow closer to God. We experience the spiritual through physical means; as you rightly stated, spiritual and physical.

I agree with your thoughts on prayer…sometimes I call it a dialogue with God. Sometimes my “prayer” is just talking to God in almost comically simple ways…almost as if He was next to me.

I also like your idea of inviting people. I wonder how many are shy or don’t think they could offer anything and therefore don’t get involved. Someone else on this thread spoke about making it personal and I wonder sometimes if an invitation can be more than a general calling from the podium or bulletin and actually calling or speaking to people on an individual level. Is that even possible at some of the bigger parishes…it would be awesome if we can do whatever necessary to bring a small parish atmosphere to even the bigger congregations.

Thanks for your thoughts!

-Ernie-

I agree that people can be shy and stay on the sidelines. And it is possible to take things further within the Parish, and there will be ways and means of being able to do this. Praying will open the hearts of those around; this is the first step.

With fervour, that you express here, I would think that you’d find a way with God’s help, to be active, if that is your heart’s desire.

 

[steve_b]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for your response as it really made me think. I totally get that faith is a gift from God, but I know a few former Catholics that said they prayed fervently for faith in the Eucharist and their prayers were never answered. They are totally committed to Jesus, but not the Church.

May I suggest, something else is going on there with them. One can’t be “totally committed” to Jesus but “not the Church”

That’s a contradiction

Besides, now that they are no longer attending mass, the reality is, they are in mortal sin. This then is their situation #25 ]

It also demonstrates THEY didn’t have faith they thought they had

Ernie:

One of the main reasons is that they don’t have a sense that people truly believe. They told me they saw people chewing gum, socializing before and after receiving the Eucharist, and many leaving right after. There just wasn’t the same fervor they see in the evangelical Protestant services they now attend.

I would ask them, What was the matter with THEIR faith, that they would allow others to affect them so much.

Them leaving, is no different than the others leaving that they complained about. It shows THEY really didn’t believe either or they never would have left Jesus. Yes THEY left Jesus. There is no Eucharist in ANY Protestant group no matter the stripe. No Eucharist no Jesus. Know Eucharist know Jesus.

Ernie:

My point in bringing that up is that others around us can have a profound influence on our experiences in anything including Mass.

True.

And one’s faith that is strong can help those weak in their faith.

Ernie:

Maybe if more people were “on fire” for the faith and for Mass it would attract more people to the faith.

Could Jesus be more on fire for what He was teaching? So why did His disciples leave Him? [Jn 6:52-70]

Bottom line people leave Our Lord and His Church because they have no faith, or a faith very weak…

Ernie:

So how do we help people to be more “on fire”, to have greater holy fear of God, and to understand the miracle that is happening during the consecration?

As Peter says

2 Pet 1: 5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For*** if ***these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, ***be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if *you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

"IF" indicates condition(s). When the condition is met, as Peter says, one won’t fall…

Ernie:

Thank you again!

-Ernie-

:tiphat:

 

[Ernie07]

Hi Ernie - great follow up questions. Thanks!

I’m going to boil everything down to this:

Whatever it is - using Laudate app, prayer, learning, action in community, lifestyle change – the same question applies.

First, what I think does not work, or has only limited effectiveness, is the thing we do most often, “make announcements, do promotions on a program”. What I mean by program is something that broadcasts “out there” to the parish. Flyers, talks, conferences, email blasts. All of that stuff where there is a presenter and an audience. That is exactly what we don’t need - and in fact, it’s that kind of thing that causes the loss of zeal and fire in the faith!

Yes, it has to be reduced way down. I think something like the Cursillo model is one way that works. But you can build your own - it’s not that difficult.

It starts from this: The one-to-one. It’s one person with a phone number, calling another. Yes, it takes time. But that’s how a friendship is built. Then, that person calls another. Eventually, you get ten people who know each other and who can talk together.

Ok, to retract what I just said - yes, a “program” is needed, but it’s done at the individual level. Small group Catholicism. Meeting weekly. It could even be a conference call by phone. Prayer together, sharing life stories (structured for time), working on challenges. Then, once a week a call with a sponsor or mentor for spiritual direction help on a particular virtue, getting ready for confession and Mass.

Some people would love to have this every day. A wake-up or breakfast call for 10 minutes. Share a prayer together. What was your hardship, temptation yesterday? How did you deal with it? Prayer and thanks to God - until tomorrow.

Eventually, you will motivate one person. Then ten or so. Then that will spread. The whole parish will be involved and very dynamic.

Hi Reggie,

Great ideas! I’m a big fan of “small group Catholicism” as you called it. I’ve been in a few small group settings within my parish and they always allow for a level of discussion and reflection that is very uplifting and beneficial. But, the challenge is how to keep these small groups going. For example, small groups work for a 10 week session on a particular topic, but then once that session is done the group disperses. It seems like you need a topic or some kind of a session to keep the small group going.

Have you practiced this “small group Catholicism" at your parish? If so, how do you keep the small groups going? Do groups of 10 or so stay together or do you mix up the groups? Do you let the groups figure out how they stay together or is there a parish topic that is the impetus to start/keep the group going? Any ideas you can share would be great!!

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

Let me start out by saying I don’t have any great answers for you. I often think that “being on fire” can be dangerous if that energy is not directed to build a long term good. I can start a camp fire with lighter fluid or gasoline and it will burn nice and hot… for a little bit. The problem is that it can burn out just as quickly.

I don’t doubt their feelings, but I relate it to the difference between “being in love” and “loving” someone. “Being in love” is often inward focused and is based on the euphoria of a new relationship. Most of us know people, or have been in our own relationships, were the other person is the center of the universe until one day it’s not exciting and we come to antipathy for the other person. On the other hand “loving” someone is about doing for their sake and not our own. I love my wife even if I don’t feel the same spark when we started dating 25 years ago.

My point is that feelings are things that can be manipulated, for good or ill. If our relationship with Christ is built purely on how it makes us feel, then it is an immature faith at best and potentially superficial.

I am always leery of people who were “on fire” but then had to go somewhere else because they needed to be reignited for lack of a better term. As such the point shouldn’t be to set people’s hearts ablaze without using that fire to temper them to weather storms of desolation.

So how do we do it? I think it has to include real honesty that God sends us both times of consolation and desolation. If people are simply looking to the Church for a euphoric high then there is no chance of long term relationship. We need to be willing to walk with people at all stages of life. I think many people try to focus purely on the “feel good” and dismiss things like devotions to Our Lady of Sorrows. It is in times of desolation that I have found the greatest founts of faith. It is in sitting at the foot of the Cross weeping with Mary that I have found the strength to pick myself up. If we only look to be a place to ignite people without being there to also help tend and bank the fires to keep the coal aglow then we miss the point.

I would agree that we need to be clear about what differentiates the Catholic faith, but as you have said many people aren’t interested in the Eucharist or any of those things that set’s the Church apart. That is where I don’t know what the answer is. I can talk people through that have doubts, but are open to hearing Christ’s redemptive message. Those who firmly plug there ears? I don’t know. I often wonder about how Christ let people leave when he spoke of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. He didn’t chase after them. Should we try to win hearts that are firmly set against His message? Of course we should, but I think it also means letting people walk away.

Personally I think the way to strengthen people’s faith is through small group encounters and hearing writings from Teresa of Avila or other spiritual masters. Just as Christ became flesh we need to draw people out of a purely physical experience into a spiritual union with Christ. This would have to be done realizing that people are at different places so where some might need a charismatic entry other might need a contemplative option. The goal though is to always encourage people to grow in faith so that the physical/emotional experience is secondary or no longer important.

Thank you for your very thoughtful response, Usige. It gives me much to reflect on. One thing that struck me is the need to reach both the minds and the hearts of people. Reason can only take you so far and then there needs to be a heart message as well.

We can reason why Jesus is our Lord, God, and Savior, but until we really take in what He did for us and why and the awesomeness of His love for us our faith will likely be lacking. I think it’s the same way with the Church.

We can provide all of the evidence that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus spoke about in MT 16:18, but maybe we also need to help people understand the teachings, sufferings, and even martyrdom of other Catholics (like Teresa of Avila) to fully appreciate the Church and the sacrifices made by people in assisting the Holy Spirit in protecting Jesus’ Church.

Thanks for getting me to think about this in a deeper way.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

Be that yourself. I don’t know of a “program” that replaces the role of a humble and holy fellow parishioner.

Pray for your pastor, too.

Do you wish to know if the people of any place are righteous? Look what sort of a pastor they have. If you find him pious, just, sound, believe the people will be the same, for they are seasoned with the salt of his wisdom.
St. John Chrysostom

And this one, too:
“Do you wish your prayer to fly toward God? Give it two wings: fasting and almsgiving.” —Saint Augustine.

And this:
“You must propagate veneration of the Most Blessed Sacrament with all your might, for the devotion to the Holy Eucharist is the queen of all devotions.”
Pope Benedict XV

Hi EasterJoy,

Thank you for your response. I guess I’m not sure if I’m looking for a “program” or anything in particular, but more of a method to bring Catholics to a deeper relationship with Jesus and His Church.

Living it myself is definitely good advice. And I fully appreciate where you’re coming from regarding our pastors (we need to pray for them every day!), but I also don’t think we can or should rely on their piousness to be a righteous people. It would help for sure, but laypeople are called to be holy as well. And I think your references to the Most Blessed Sacrament, fasting, and almsgiving are sound advice.

Thanks!

-Ernie-

 

[reggieM]

But, the challenge is how to keep these small groups going. For example, small groups work for a 10 week session on a particular topic, but then once that session is done the group disperses. It seems like you need a topic or some kind of a session to keep the small group going.

Good point and yes. I think it has to be a spiritual program, first. Secondly, there has to be dedicated leaders who will stick with it for the long-run. Groups could form and then disperse, but the message would penetrate through the parish that way.

Have you practiced this “small group Catholicism" at your parish? If so, how do you keep the small groups going? Do groups of 10 or so stay together or do you mix up the groups? Do you let the groups figure out how they stay together or is there a parish topic that is the impetus to start/keep the group going? Any ideas you can share would be great!!

We have tried this in a couple of ways:

1. We had dedicated lay leaders who ran the groups, organized and set up the meetings. This was very successful and built lasting friendships that have gone on for years. However, the work was too much and the lay leaders burned out, thus the whole thing eventually stopped. The problem here was nobody wanted to step up and lead (we needed a dozen guys like you, Ernie – and even one is rare to find!)
2. The second approach has worked better. Instead of meeting, we do regular phone calls and conference calls. This is based something like an AA meeting, where people work on their spiritual goals and building virtues. The calls are once a week. Each person takes a turn to lead the call. Then, one-on-one calls can be done to keep people active. If someone drops out, we stay in touch to see if they will return.

This also takes dedicated leadership.

I guess the difficult news is, that anything that requires a lot of volunteer work at the parish level is going to be very difficult to maintain.
At the same time, if the leadership is salaried employees - that can hurt the spontaneous nature of it also.

The ideal thing, years ago it would work this way, in the parish would have religious priests or sisters doing this. When we had loads of vocations, that’s what would happen. But now, we just have to struggle with the best we can.

Phone calls, even just a 10 minute call - I think is the best way to reach people in this too-busy world. A 20 minute conference call, once a week – with a prayer, some reflection on the virtues, a little news about what’s going on, and a chance to share – that can have a big impact. Plus, nobody has to leave what they’re doing. People can dial in on a cell phone even if they’re at a kids softball game or whatever.

 

[macstar]

Hi Macstar,

Are you saying the priests don’t explain the teachings of the Church in a way for these fallen-away Catholics to have understood? Because that is my concern as well. I’ve even thought about the idea of setting up a blog or weekly meetings that parishioners could attend with the sole purpose of answering questions from parishioners about the Catholic faith from the perspective of a lay person. My thought was that it might be less intimidating to ask someone like me rather than our priest. Just a thought I’m throwing around…

Thanks again for your thoughts.

-Ernie-

Yes, along with the other points I mentioned. Jesus spoke in parables for people to understand. It’s like that.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Every time I hear something about a program to revitalize parishes or get people excited about the faith, it always seems to come down to having some type of small group meetings for Bible study and discussing life’s challenges. I have even seen this presented as something like “Many people don’t get anything out of the rosary or Eucharistic Adoration but they’d love a Bible Study group.” While this statement is no doubt true, it (1) made me sad and (2) didn’t reflect my own feelings so why would I want to hang around in a group with a bunch of people who feel so differently from me.

I tried the “small group” thing years ago when one of my parishes did it for Lent. The people I met were very nice but I honestly did not get much out of discussing the Bible in a group and I sure didn’t want to talk to near-total strangers about challenges I faced in my life that week. By contrast, I really enjoy getting together to pray the Rosary or the Flame of Love Cenacle with others. This doesn’t require me to over-share.

I’m not knocking the option of the Bible study/ group share thing for people who enjoy it but I’d like to see more devotional groups too and not feel like groups concentrating on prayer or more traditional devotions are being set to one side.

As for volunteer opportunities, it would be great if there was some place to find them on a consistent basis. A lot of charities would like your donations but are not as open to having bodies on site to volunteer as you would think. Other volunteer activities I see are age-restricted, for example there’s lots of stuff for the youth group to do but nothing for middle-aged people. This is not just a parish issue, it’s something I see in the greater community as well. If you’re just looking for a place to go volunteer you have to go hunt for one and then possibly even compete with other volunteers to get your foot in the door. It can be discouraging.

 

[reggieM]

I tried the “small group” thing years ago when one of my parishes did it for Lent. The people I met were very nice but I honestly did not get much out of discussing the Bible in a group and I sure didn’t want to talk to near-total strangers about challenges I faced in my life that week. By contrast, I really enjoy getting together to pray the Rosary or the Flame of Love Cenacle with others. This doesn’t require me to over-share.

I can understand this view, but what we’ve seen is the real desire and need for spiritual improvement among people. A simple Bible study or learning session is not sufficient. What we are seeking is that the people in our spiritual community - in the Body of Christ, our brothers and sisters, are not total-strangers, or even near that. Yes, it takes a while to build, but friendships are necessary. We have to go beyond personal prayer, as good as that is. We have to go beyond sacramental confession, because there is not enough guidance given, due to time needs.
The spiritual journey to God takes some effort - and most importantly, accountability. Sure, we’re afraid to point out our shortcomings. But doing that is the very best first step in overcoming them and improving.
Yes, this is not a therapy sesson, where we talk about our spouse or finances or job. It’s working on virtues.

 

[Contarini]

Hello,

I hear people describe the Mass as boring, not relevant, uninspiring…that many get nothing out of it and go out of obligation if at all. I’ve also heard many talk about the Church in less than glowing terms. So I have two questions:

1. If you get little to nothing out of Mass why do you think that is?
2. What do you think needs to be done to inspire a greater love of the Mass and the Catholic Church?

I’m looking for ideas for my parish to be more passionate Catholics. To help them be more alive in their love of Jesus, the Mass/Eucharist, and the teachings of the Church as a whole. My belief is that all 3 need to be integrated to make for a passionate and “on fire” Catholic.

My reasoning is that a love of Jesus without love for the Mass/Eucharist or the teachings of the Church equals a Protestant. A love of Jesus and the Mass/Eucharist without a love of the teachings of the Church leads to “cafeteria Catholics” that doubt certain aspects of what the Church teaches. But a Catholic that loves Jesus, the Mass/Eucharist, and all teachings of the Church produces a passionate Catholic that can spread like wild fire.

That’s at least my theory. Feel free to answer my questions, respond to my above theory, or provide any ideas you may have. Thank you in advance for your thoughts and (name removed by moderator)ut!

-Ernie-

Well, I think a lot could be done in terms of liturgy, priestly formation, etc., to make the Mass more participatory and more traditional at the same time (yes, I have Episcopal worship in mind as I say that–also the Eastern Church). I have all kinds of complaints, myself. But at the end of the day, I think that there may be a deeper reason why people find Mass “boring,” best explicated by James Alison here.

Being “passionate,” if Alison is right, may not be what is needed. I’m not sure I agree entirely–I’m all in favor of emotion and enthusiasm, but I think he has wise words on the dangers of trying to whip such sentiments up.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I can understand this view, but what we’ve seen is the real desire and need for spiritual improvement among people. A simple Bible study or learning session is not sufficient. What we are seeking is that the people in our spiritual community - in the Body of Christ, our brothers and sisters, are not total-strangers, or even near that. Yes, it takes a while to build, but friendships are necessary. We have to go beyond personal prayer, as good as that is. We have to go beyond sacramental confession, because there is not enough guidance given, due to time needs.
The spiritual journey to God takes some effort - and most importantly, accountability. Sure, we’re afraid to point out our shortcomings. But doing that is the very best first step in overcoming them and improving.
Yes, this is not a therapy sesson, where we talk about our spouse or finances or job. It’s working on virtues.

What you’re describing does sound more like Cursillo than the kind of “Bible study” groups that I have seen. I think when the parish is trying to get everyone participating, such as during Lent, they try to make the requirements fairly “easy” and it does slip very easily into the “therapy session” model if you have someone in your group so inclined.

I can see where what you’re proposing would have benefits, but it seems like it would require highly motivated participants.

 

[Ernie07]

Thanks, poche. You described it well.

I heard a spiritual director once describe it like helping your children. You might offer to help with say their insurance when they first move out, but after a while you don’t pay it if you want them to grow more independent. Consolation is not a prize we earn, but rather is a grace given to us in order to grow spiritually. Conversely, desolation is not God punishing us, but rather Him giving us the chance to stand on our own feet. It’s the parent letting go of their toddler’s hands so that they can learn to walk unaided. It might be scary, but is part of growing to have a healthy and loving relationship with God.

I think many in modern society are so addicted to the adrenaline rush of feel good pop psychology that they can become spiritually stunted. Many charismatic mega churches bank on that to draw people back week after week. If you are feeling down, come get a shot of feelgood worship. The problem is it rarely unites us with Christ who so loved us that He was brutally tortured for our sins. The crucifix, the Pieta, Our Lady of Sorrows, et cetera all speak of death to self for love of the other. People don’t want to hear that, but that is one of the central messages of Christ.

We have lost an understanding of the value of redemptive suffering and the fact that steel is not forged through fire alone, but it is tempered and gains strength by the cycle of heat and quenching. That is the purpose of the cycles of consolidation and desolation in my understanding… to strengthen us in our faith.

Hi Usige,

Both you and Poche are at levels of your faith that I’m not at yet and I really appreciate you sharing your insights. My low level interpretation of what you are both saying is that we get stronger going through faith struggles and that makes total sense to me. It’s how we improve in all facets of life so why not spiritually.

I think of having to go through grueling workouts and cutting back on those tasty but unhealthy foods to lose weight. Because it’s not easy and involves a sacrifice many give up after a few weeks. I can see the same happening with faith…I am evidence of that!

I guess the key is getting people to fully buy in that the sacrifices they’re going to make are in their best interests and we can’t force that on anyone. We can educate, lend support, and provide a good example, but in the end it’s up to the individual.

Thanks for your insightful posts!!

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

friard…sorry, not yet. I also considered Friardrice, as an option for a username!

Hi.Thank you for replying. By “spiritual”, I mean receiving Jesus in Holy Communion and the blessing from attending Mass. Also, the homilies - even if people don’t think they are getting something from a homily, the truth will sink in, on some level. And of course, listening to the readings and the Gospel, is vital. All of this is in essence, spiritual. And will help the soul to grow closer to God. We experience the spiritual through physical means; as you rightly stated, spiritual and physical.

I agree that people can be shy and stay on the sidelines. And it is possible to take things further within the Parish, and there will be ways and means of being able to do this. Praying will open the hearts of those around; this is the first step.

With fervour, that you express here, I would think that you’d find a way with God’s help, to be active, if that is your heart’s desire.

Hi Friardchips,

Sorry for botching up your user name!! Thank you for your explanation of what you meant by spiritual. I now understand where you’re coming from. Makes alot of sense. Thank you again!

-Ernie-