looking for non-Catholic opinion

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Hi

I would like to agree with the person who said this:

(The prayer meeting of Assisi?

The changes in the Mass?
The priest facing the people?
The reception of Communion from the Cup?
The use of EOMHCs?
The vernacular?
Communion in the hand?

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?
The traditional movement in general?

The Pope praying for the coming of the Messiah in the synogogue?

The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?)

He or she is dead on.

I would like to that the future of the RC religion will hang on what this Pope will do during the time he serves your Church.

The Christian relgion is being to fade from Western Europe. Restoring the Latin Tridentine Mass is a good step foward for the Latin Church. Without restoring of the Latin Tridentine Mass the Catholic Church would fade in to history in that part of the world.

Always remember that the devil didn’t make the Catholic do away with the Traditional Mass it was Pope Paul VI who did it. That should tell you something of his faith.

Look at the growth of the Muslims religion in Western Europe and the decline of the Christian religion. Numbers count you may not think so but they do…

Wanted to say what was on my mind.

sign.

Frank J
 
**What do you think of:

The prayer meeting of Assisi?**

Never heard of it.

The changes in the Mass?

Change to fit the times is good, Invariance is foolishness.

The priest facing the people?

If I were reworking the mass (lol) I’d mix the moments - sometimes the priest should face the folk, and sometimes face the high altar, I’d think.

** The reception of Communion from the Cup?**

Communion in both elements seems good to me - why withhold part of the blessing.

** The use of EOMHCs?**

Unfortunate but required under rules that discourage vocations.

** The vernacular?**

Generally good - everyone should worship in a language they comprehend, though retaining latin for traditional prayers is also cool - ancient powerful languages are fun.

** Communion in the hand?**

Seems fine to me.

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?

Excommunicating those who disagree seems a last resort at best - keep your friends close and your enemies closer, as they say.

** The traditional movement in general?**

I understand it, and think variance in liturgy from place to face is a good thing.

The Pope praying for the coming of the Messiah in the synogogue?

Understandable, but rude. It’s not the Pope’s business what Jews think.

The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?

Seems plainly true to me. I’m a Pagan, and it’s all plainly the God of Abraham, about who the monotheists have been warring for centuries.
Ian
 
Frank_J said:
Hi

I would like to agree with the person who said this:

(The prayer meeting of Assisi?

The changes in the Mass?
The priest facing the people?
The reception of Communion from the Cup?
The use of EOMHCs?
The vernacular?
Communion in the hand?

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?
The traditional movement in general?

The Pope praying for the coming of the Messiah in the synogogue?

The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?)

He or she is dead on.

I would like to that the future of the RC religion will hang on what this Pope will do during the time he serves your Church.

The Christian relgion is being to fade from Western Europe. Restoring the Latin Tridentine Mass is a good step foward for the Latin Church. Without restoring of the Latin Tridentine Mass the Catholic Church would fade in to history in that part of the world.

Always remember that the devil didn’t make the Catholic do away with the Traditional Mass it was Pope Paul VI who did it. That should tell you something of his faith.

Look at the growth of the Muslims religion in Western Europe and the decline of the Christian religion. Numbers count you may not think so but they do…

Wanted to say what was on my mind.

sign.

Frank J
Click to expand...
It is soooo easy to tell who is Catholic and who isn’t, also easy to tell when a Catholic does not know or understand their Catholic Faith.
I’ll try to shed some light on these points brought out.

1, Jesus said, “Where two or more are gathered together, I am among them”, enough said!

1&2, The Catholic Church has the authority given by Jesus Christ to bind and to loose, Called Church Laws and that is what this comes under.
  1. Has always been done but not on a grand scale, so nothing new or wrong. Comes under Church Authority.
4, In the early church, first 300 or so years, the priest would consecrate the loaves of bread into the Body of Christ and the people would take it home for the sick and imprisoned, those that could not attend the secret Mass. etc. After Constantine made it possible for Catholics to worship without danger and to build churches that became less, and less necessary. So people would to to Church for Mass. Now, because of the tremendous growth of the Catholic Church and the need for laity helping the Priest, the Holy Father has restored the use of laity to help distribute Holy Communion, under certain circumstances. They must attend classes and be commissioned by the Bishop. Not just anyone can do it.
  1. Another example of Church Authority. I have a little book titled,
    “The Door of Salvation” by Re. Fulgence Meyer, O.F.M.copywright, 1929, (long before Vatican II), it says, "The use of the Latin Language in its ceremonial is altogether a disciplinary matter over which the Church has full control. Hence she started by using Greek, which at the time, and in the place of Her foundation, was understood by all; and she turned to Latin after Rome was established as the center of Her activity. She has retained Latin ever since although for the good reasons she has accorded a number of nations in the Orient the use of the native or vernacular language for Divine worship.
    If it were evident that the use of the vernacular in the liturgy would benefit the faithful at large more than the Latin language, the Church would not hesitate to allow and even to insist in the use of the vernacular in worship in every country of the globe. The language that promises to serve most effectively Her one purpose of existence: the redemption of immortal souls.
  2. Church authority again.
7.He excommunicated himself by ordaining bishops on his own, without proper authority. And he knew this would be the consequences!
  1. If they are in union with the Church, Pope, then thats fine.
9.got any more jokes???

10.The important thing is HOW they worship the TRUE GOD

11.??
The future of the Catholic Church depends entirely on Jesus Christ and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It will be here till the END of time as Jesus promised and He will be with us as HE is the Head of HIS Catholic Church. The Pope will NEVER do harm for any reason, to the Teachings of the Catholic Church, Never has and never will.
 
the_Gaudess said:
These issues are debated among Catholics so I thought I’d get the opinon of some non-Catholics (Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Wiccan…I don’t care, just as long as you’re not Catholic and fervent in your own religion). What do you think of:

The prayer meeting of Assisi?

The changes in the Mass?
The priest facing the people?
The reception of Communion from the Cup?
The use of EOMHCs?
The vernacular?
Communion in the hand?

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?
The traditional movement in general?

The Pope praying for the coming of the Messiah in the synogogue?

The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?
Click to expand...
Hey nice questions, though most of this since I am not catholic mean little or nothing to me at this time. I say at this time since I am here looking into the catholic religion.

The last one I think people think they all worship the same God. I think the Jews and the Christians do but the differences are, though seem minor on the surface, are too much for this post of a single thread. The Muslims I think they and other people think they do but with what little I have seen or heard I come to believe they are not worshiping my God.
 
Hi Memaw

Without restoring of the Latin Tridentine Mass the Catholic Church will fade in to history.

The Novus Ordo is dying and slowly passing from this world.

There more Mass in France using the Latin Tridentine Mass Missal then the Novus Ordo Missal. I would call that a big blunder on the part of Roman Church.

My view is that the Latin Tridentine Mass Missal will replace the Novus Ordo Mass in about 50 to 100 years. The Novus Ordo has tried to destroy the Latin Tridentine Mass for many year and can’t for it is created by GOD and can never be destroyed.

I don’t need someone to tell me I don’t understand the RC Church I lived in it for more then I care to talk about at this time. I see the Jazz Mass so called and heard the dancers at the so called Table Altar the Novus Ordo Church has.

The ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII called MEDIATOR DEI he gave warning and what should never be done in the Church. He spoke that the Church would error it turned the Altar around and make a table of it, but yet the Roman Church did this after Vatican II. Is Pope Pius XII right or wrong in writing his encyclical??

vatican.va/holy_father/index.htm
Vatican City Web site

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20111947_mediator-dei_en.html
MEDIATOR DEI ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII

I would like to hear the story on why the table is not a mistake hummmmm???

Let hear it.

Have a great day.

Frank J
 
I would like to say this about Archbishop Lefebvre. If the Catholic didn’t try to distroy the Tridentine Mass it would not be in this pickle at this time.

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?
The traditional movement was a mistake on the part of the Vatican and will live to regret it.

What happens if the Archbishop Lefebvre movement get bigger then the Novus Ordo Church in the country were they are growing in at this time. Lefebvre group will move in suppressing the so called New Mass. If you don’t think they will you better think twice.

I know the Latin group for I was one of them they will do it to you. They will see you as standing between them and their Church.

Just look at your own history how you tried to suppress other religions. That is who they may deal with you in the futrue.

Many Holy War have been done in the name of GOD and will go until the end of time. Hey look at the war we are in now. Its a war against the Infidels like you and me. Who will win this??? Only side can win and you better pray is us as Christians or you will have to become Muslim or die. There is no middle ground here.

Need to get that off my chest so there!!!

Have a good day.

Frank J
 
Thestatement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?

No way!

The Christian GOD don’t say thing like this. The god here wish to kill people of all kind. Who does this sound like to you???

islam.tc/quran/
  1. The Table Spread (Al-Máída)
    005.051 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
You don’t want to trust me look at the quote for yourselves.

Go ahead they say seeing is believing.

bye
 
Bill G who is Baptist knows the truth about the false god of this world

The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?

Bill has come to believe they are not worshiping his God.

The GOD of the Christians and the god of the Muslims are two different gods, one is true the other is not.

bye
 
emeraldcoast said:
Where are the Catholics when we need them to give us the straight scoop!!😉
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Eucharistic Ministers are lay members of the parish who can pass out the Body & Blood. Only the priest can preside over the Sacrement. In smaller venues usually only the priest will serve the Body. In a full mass we have the Eucharistic Ministers.

Does that help?
 
Memaw said:
What difference would all this make to non-catholics, seems to me your just trying to stir up trouble where there is none. Guaranteed, the Pope did NOT pray for the coming of the Messiah, you got to be kidding. Such nonsense isn’t worth the time of day.
Click to expand...
On second thought, maybe he prayed for the second coming and if so, well all Catholics pray for that!!! Don’t you??
 
Frank_J said:
I would like to say this about Archbishop Lefebvre. If the Catholic didn’t try to distroy the Tridentine Mass it would not be in this pickle at this time.

(1)… Well as we speak, many of the Lefebvre group are working very hard to come back into the Catholic Church.

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?
The traditional movement was a mistake on the part of the Vatican and will live to regret it.

(2) Don’t be toooooo sure of yourself. Your talking to the Holy Spirit there.

What happens if the Archbishop Lefebvre movement get bigger then the Novus Ordo Church in the country were they are growing in at this time. Lefebvre group will move in suppressing the so called New Mass. If you don’t think they will you better think twice.

(3),"The Gates of Hell, will not prevail against Christ’s Church, NO MATTER WHAT! The Orthodox schism was MUCH larger and they couldn’t do it and haven’t done it.

I know the Latin group for I was one of them they will do it to you. They will see you as standing between them and their Church.

(4) Is that why your so angry, seems you’ve been around.

Just look at your own history how you tried to suppress other religions. That is who they may deal with you in the futrue.

(5) When anyone “deals” with the Catholic Church, they have to “deal” with Jesus.

Many Holy War have been done in the name of GOD and will go until the end of time. Hey look at the war we are in now. Its a war against the Infidels like you and me. Who will win this??? Only side can win and you better pray is us as Christians or you will have to become Muslim or die. There is no middle ground here.

(6), then you better stop criticizing and start praying!!

You too.Memaw
Have a good day.

Frank J
Click to expand...
 
40.png
Memaw:
The 1thru 6 was my response to Frank J. God Bless, emaw
 
Frank_J said:
Hi Memaw

Without restoring of the Latin Tridentine Mass the Catholic Church will fade in to history.

1), Don’t count on it, its been here for 2,000 years. Longer than Latin has been a part of the Mass. It was first in the Greek language.

The Novus Ordo is dying and slowly passing from this world.

2), Now just what makes you think soooooo. Are you the Holy Spirit???

There more Mass in France using the Latin Tridentine Mass Missal then the Novus Ordo Missal. I would call that a big blunder on the part of Roman Church.

3), Thats great, no objection from me, I am happy they are going to Mass, but thats not going to change the world in our lifetime, do you think!!

My view is that the Latin Tridentine Mass Missal will replace the Novus Ordo Mass in about 50 to 100 years. The Novus Ordo has tried to destroy the Latin Tridentine Mass for many year and can’t for it is created by GOD and can never be destroyed.

4), your not even Catholic and yet you think know soooo much, who made you “pope”?
The Tridentine Mass, as you call it, was used in the Church from 1570 to 1969. Now the Church got along just fine from 33 to 1570. While there were few revisions during that time, a rather thorough change took place in 1955 by Pope Pius XII, then Pope John XXIII made substantial changes 1962, even before Vatican II. All Latin Masses said today must use the 1962 edition of the Roman Missal. So please get off the kick that the Catholic Church has no right to make these decisions.

I don’t need someone to tell me I don’t understand the RC Church I lived in it for more then I care to talk about at this time. I see the Jazz Mass so called and heard the dancers at the so called Table Altar the Novus Ordo Church has.

5).Then WHY are you talking about it, your only making yourself out as one who doesn’t even know what hes talking about! What you do need, is to learn the truth or keep your tater trap closed about what the Catholic Church can or can’t do!! My Mom always said, “If you can’t say something nice about someone, then don’t say anything!”

The ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII called MEDIATOR DEI he gave warning and what should never be done in the Church. He spoke that the Church would error it turned the Altar around and make a table of it, but yet the Roman Church did this after Vatican II. Is Pope Pius XII right or wrong in writing his encyclical??

6), One Pope cannot tie the hands of a future Pope when it comes to disciplinary matters. Including how to place the Alter. Get used to it NO POPE can or ever has or ever will attempt to change the Doctrine of the Catholic Church. God Bless, Memaw.

vatican.va/holy_father/index.htm
Vatican City Web site

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20111947_mediator-dei_en.html
MEDIATOR DEI ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS XII

I would like to hear the story on why the table is not a mistake hummmmm???

Let hear it.

Have a great day.

Frank J
Click to expand...
As before, 1 thru 6 are my comments, Memaw.
 
Archbishop Lefebvre movement is growing and it will get large and larger until they so big that you look so small to them. I can count the number of parishes that are opening up. I also see the presser that it’s putting on the Roman Church. Maybe you sould go see who is attending the SSPX or maybe the FSSP parish and see the many young face attending; maybe that will be a great eye opener to you all?

They say see is believing. I would say go and see.

“The Gates of Hell, will not prevail against Christ’s Church” Are you calling Archbishop Lefebvre movement comparing to the Gates of Hell???

Remember the Tridentine Mass was a Divine Litrugy made by GOD. What GOD has made can not be distroyed like the Mass.

Look at the Pope he celebrates the Latin Tridentine Mass in his own Chapel. It not the Novus Ordo he is using in his own private Chapel. What do you think about that???

Look who taking about changing the Novus Ordo again we it your new Pope. He is talking abou turning the table around and making an Altar of it. Plus mind you adding latin into the prayers in some of the parts of it. What nexts Altar boy’s will become the
standed for serving at that altar. The Pope may make RC Woman wear the Chapel veil once again in Church.

Hey remember all the changes that the RC Church has done in the last 39 years since the slay ride begain. So I seen the changes first hand. You can’t hide them I seen them up close. I can remember when the priest anounce that the altar was to be turn around for the following Sunday back in 1969…

When anyone “deals” with the Catholic Church, they have to “deal” with Jesus. That is your view not the Orthodox view.

When anyone “deals” with the Eastern Orthodox Church, they have to “deal” with Jesus Christ. That is the true view…

Have a great day.

Frank J
 
It’s not extraordinarily dumb to say that GOD loves both sides and works with all is sheep. GOD works even with the one who have a track toward a destructive nature.

Orthodoxy is the true Religion and that the RC Church needs to come back to the fold.

I’m not the one with a chip on my back it the RC Church and it’s so called flock who defend the Church and not the victims of the abuse. I go to Church even knowing my Church has sinners in it but I am assured that my Church moves toward Holiness. It doesn’t degrade the Christians in and treat them like trash.

All you need to read your own history on what your Church did to the Eastern Rite Catholic back in the early part of the 20th century. Look up Archbishop John Ireland I think is his name. He tried to force Eastern Rite Catholic to adopted the Latin Tridentine Mass. He was responsibly for the great break away from your Church in a very long time. That was the love of that man.

Try read your own history before you are calling people dumb. RC Church has the blood of it’s hand. I could shoe many picture showing Catholic Religionist marching with men dress up with fascist men during World War II. I am going to look up the picture when I have time I am going to let you remember your very sorry history of how the Serbians were treat by their Catholic neighbor and how they were killed. Serbian men, women and Children push off the mountain. Some were forced to convert and others just kill very good history is it??? That very holy of the Catholic’s???

They say one picture is worth 10,000 words…

Everybody has done evil things in there lives and that go’s for the RC Church she doesn’t have clean hand in all of this.

I got the facts I don’t make up stuff. Unlike one political leader who don’t know we have 50 States in this country and not 57 States. I don’t make up stuff.

Will have more to say in my next Chat. No one is holy before GOD all have sinned and fall short of the Kingdom of Heaven.

I not bitter I not guilty of any crimes here so I sleep at night. I didn’t rape child or hurt no one in my Church or your Church. Look to the ones who bring shame on your Church they are the ones you should be angry with.

Have a great day.

Frank J
 
Frank_J said:
It’s not extraordinarily dumb to say that GOD loves both sides and works with all is sheep. GOD works even with the one who have a track toward a destructive nature.

Orthodoxy is the true Religion and that the RC Church needs to come back to the fold.

I’m not the one with a chip on my back it the RC Church and it’s so called flock who defend the Church and not the victims of the abuse. I go to Church even knowing my Church has sinners in it but I am assured that my Church moves toward Holiness. It doesn’t degrade the Christians in and treat them like trash.

All you need to read your own history on what your Church did to the Eastern Rite Catholic back in the early part of the 20th century. Look up Archbishop John Ireland I think is his name. He tried to force Eastern Rite Catholic to adopted the Latin Tridentine Mass. He was responsibly for the great break away from your Church in a very long time. That was the love of that man.

Try read your own history before you are calling people dumb. RC Church has the blood of it’s hand. I could shoe many picture showing Catholic Religionist marching with men dress up with fascist men during World War II. I am going to look up the picture when I have time I am going to let you remember your very sorry history of how the Serbians were treat by their Catholic neighbor and how they were killed. Serbian men, women and Children push off the mountain. Some were forced to convert and others just kill very good history is it??? That very holy of the Catholic’s???

They say one picture is worth 10,000 words…

Everybody has done evil things in there lives and that go’s for the RC Church she doesn’t have clean hand in all of this.

I got the facts I don’t make up stuff. Unlike one political leader who don’t know we have 50 States in this country and not 57 States. I don’t make up stuff.

Will have more to say in my next Chat. No one is holy before GOD all have sinned and fall short of the Kingdom of Heaven.

I not bitter I not guilty of any crimes here so I sleep at night. I didn’t rape child or hurt no one in my Church or your Church. Look to the ones who bring shame on your Church they are the ones you should be angry with.

Have a great day.

Frank J
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Helllloooooo FrankJ, guess who is working to be REUNITED to the Holy Catholic Church and authority of the POPE??? The Orthodox Church is! I was talking to an Orthodox Bishop not to long ago and he believes that will happen in our lifetime and he is about my age, I am 71. So hopefully we will still be alive to see that happen. What a Historic moment that will be!!! Already some have come back into the Catholic Church willing to recognize the Pope as the head of the Catholic Church. What are you going to do when that happens? You keep banging your head against a brick wall and for what?? And you say your not guilty of anything, well have you ever heard of the 8th Commandment?? Also, you will be judged as you judge others. Seems you have set yourself up as head of both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. Really you are speaking for yourself I’m afraid…
 
Hi

It will be a very long long time before that can happen. Is Roman Catholic readly to give up On Papal ruling over the different groups of Christians or is it will learn to except the Pope has no power. or something eles. I would like to see the Pope spell out his choices he is making on giving up his power.??? That would be progress on the side of the Roman Catholic Church let us pray about this. This is great News…

That would be good to see the Roman Church come back to the fold of Orthodox Christians.

If an Orthodox Bishop is say the remarks he said to you he talk for himself. Would please tell me who he is? He need to talk one of the Orthodox Bishop in this country, he need a talking too them before he go’s off in his own direction.
 
Frank_J said:
Hi

It will be a very long long time before that can happen. Is Roman Catholic readly to give up On Papal ruling over the different groups of Christians or is it will learn to except the Pope has no power. or something eles. I would like to see the Pope spell out his choices he is making on giving up his power.??? That would be progress on the side of the Roman Catholic Church let us pray about this. This is great News…

That would be good to see the Roman Church come back to the fold of Orthodox Christians.

If an Orthodox Bishop is say the remarks he said to you he talk for himself. Would please tell me who he is? He need to talk one of the Orthodox Bishop in this country, he need a talking too them before he go’s off in his own direction.
Click to expand...
OK,
I am a little bit tired of this fellows nonsense. My friend the Bishop doesn’t need any advice from him. Frank is going to be standing there all by himself someday waving goodby to all his Orthodox friends when they reunite with the Pope.
 
Hi

The Pope will have no choice but give up his power. There can be no progress unless this is done. You know better then that. Remember that time is not on Rome side. don’t forget the Muslim births in Italy. Well sometime in the future you may find one day Shariah Law ruling Rome one day.

Count the number of births of mulims babies to so called Christians babies. Let us see what 50 years of this will give us.

Also remember this you Catholics have Fatima prediction that talk about someone kicking the Pope I wonder who could that be Hmmmmmmmm?? That is if you believe that stuff.

England is near death, but it will more then likely convert to Islam in 50 year if everything doesn’t change soon. Let us wait and see.

I read and I see what is happening to Western Europe. We will see if the Pope in more receptive of Orthodox demands.

We will really know soon.

Have a great day.

Frank J
 
I’m not completely sure, but from what I have been able to make out from what Frank says, I think I find much we would agree on.

I also feel as he does, that the attempted removal of the Tridentine Latin Mass from Roman Catholicism was a terrible decision…one that has come to haunt them now. They thought the traditionalists would die off once the novus ordo was implemented, but they didn’t. And in fact, it seems that most of the traditionalists now are YOUNG Catholics who never knew it firsthand growing up!

I also agree with Frank on what some in the Latin Rite tried to do to the Eastern Rite Catholics with attempted Latinizations. Its very similar to what Ashkenazi Judaism has tried to do in various ways to Sephardic Judaism…trying to make them “fit in” with the majority type of Jew/Judaism, just because the Ashkenazi Jews are the majority (just as Latin Rite Catholics are the majority when compared to Eastern Rite Catholics.) I always root for the underdog, and to me, it seems in the CC, the underdogs are the Traditionalist Latin Rite Catholics and the Eastern Rite Catholics.

Frank, I did not have the chance to read everything you wrote, but did you leave the RCC and join the EO church due to the changes in the RCC with the Tridentine Mass, and other ‘changes’ that arose out of Vatican II?
 
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