looking for non-Catholic opinion

[Syele]

The prayer meeting of Assisi?

First thought was “the what where?” but ok Ill look it up.

The Professor asked himself, how could the Catholic Pope have come to give such public recognition and official credit to all of the world’s principal false religions?

OK after 2 minutes study it sounds really bad. Sounds like interesting fodder for all those Tribulation people who are awaiting the Pope to endorse a one world enforced religion and prove all their conspiracy theories about him. I think Ill just skip answering this more and go with Daniels Hippie joke.

The changes in the Mass?

I didn’t know much about it before. so don’t really have an opinion.

The priest facing the people?

Honestly? I think it’s majoring in the minors.

The reception of Communion from the Cup?

majoring in minors again.

The use of EOMHCs?

Nothing remotely wrong with them.

The vernacular?

Latin is called a dead language for a reason. Use the language of the people.

Communion in the hand?

Its a meal. People use hands to eat bread. This is normal and expected. In biblical account of the meal I see nothing about obsessing over crumbs and Jesus placing wafers (which are not bread) made of breadlike ingredients into the disciples mouths for them. Sorry I know that opinion won’t be welcome here, but you did ask a bunch of Non-catholics our opinions.

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?

I dunno who he is, don’t feel like looking it up.

The traditional movement in general?

Dont know enough to comment

The Pope praying for the coming of the Messiah in the synogogue?

He did that? I don’t approve! Maybe i misunderstand? Either he Believes the Messiah has already come or he doesn’t. Praying for something you believe is wrong is wrong in itself.

The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?

Jews are ancestors of Christians so we do worship the same God. Muslims, No. You are Catholics not Baha’i.

 

[Memaw]

**I beg **to differ. Not only did Jesus come to save the world, he came to build his Church, which was the fulfillment - not the dismantling of Judaism (Matt. 16:17-19).

The Catholic Church doesn’t quarrel about who the true Church is because Jesus only built one - the Catholic Church.

All of the other factions that divorced themselves from the Catholic Church then from each other - they’re the ones quarreling.

Yes and they know they are wrong or I don’t think they would be shouting soooo loud and in not truthful ways. If one was truly sincere in seeking the TRUTH, they would do it peacefully and gracefully with prayer and God will lead them to the TRUTH. But they have to let HIM do the leading. HE can only lead them to HIS TRUTH.

 

[Memaw]

But some tell me the truth that I am saved by baptism, some tell me the truth that I am saved by faith and some tell me the truth that I am damned to hell for all eternity after I die. There is more than one truth that they are telling me.

It is the thoughts behind the words that I was referring to, rather than the words themselves. Some people come across as extremely angry, others do not.

For information (both ways) and amusement.

rossum

They are not all telling the TRUTH. There is only one TRUTH and that is Jesus Christ. Many are just giving someones opinion. If you just read the Holy Bible and the writings of the early Church Fathers, you would get a much better idea of the TRUTH. Then get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.Gradually you will be led to the TRUTH. Talk to a priest. I always suggest watching “Journey Home,” on EWTN Catholic Cable network on Monday nights at 7PM CST. The guests tell their story of how they came into, or back into the Catholic Church. Very interesting. They come from all walks of life, many different denominations and many are former ministers. But one thing that is very noticeable is that they have NO anger or resentment or ill feelings for their former denomination. Only greatfull for what they had already been taught. One can learn a lot by watching the program. There need be NO anger or falseness between us, just seeking the Truth. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Contarini]

Latin is called a dead language for a reason.

It’s called a dead language because post-Enlightenment society has chosen to declare it such. Are you sure this was a good thing? Are you sure it is irreversible? Why?

Edwin

 

[qui_est_ce]

It’s called a dead language because post-Enlightenment society has chosen to declare it such. Are you sure this was a good thing? Are you sure it is irreversible? Why?

Edwin

 

[Kaninchen]

Early Italian/Spanish (aka Latin) is dead in the sense that it’s been nobody’s first language for a very long time.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You’re just being paranoid:hypno:

 

[zerinus]

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

You’re just being paranoid:hypno:

Or just lost his mind maybe?

zerinus

 

[qui_est_ce]

Or just lost his mind maybe?

zerinus

That too.

 

[Greg27]

"The prayer meeting of Assisi?

The changes in the Mass?
The priest facing the people?
The reception of Communion from the Cup?
The use of EOMHCs?
The vernacular?
Communion in the hand?

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?
The traditional movement in general?"

These are all really pastoral issues which are internal to the CC, and don’t concern those outside of its walls.

“The Pope praying for the coming of the Messiah in the synogogue?”

So long as the Jews who worshipped there were comfortable with it, it seems fine.

“The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?”

I think the history of religion shows that monotheists believe in a deity who shares very similar attributes and properties, though in other ways their faiths differ from each other quite considerably.

 

[Syele]

  			Originally Posted by **Contarini** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4001597#post4001597) 				
  		*It's called a dead language because post-Enlightenment society has chosen to declare it such. Are you sure this was a good thing? Are you sure it is irreversible? Why?

Edwin*

Could be irreversible but why try to reverse it? People should worship in languages they understand. Scriptures say to preach the Gospel to all the world. not to preach it to a select few who can understand a language no one else speaks anymore. Its hard enough to reach the lost in their native tongue. Adding extra obstacles for no real purpose is exclusionary.

“The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?”

I think the history of religion shows that monotheists believe in a deity who shares very similar attributes and properties, though in other ways their faiths differ from each other quite considerably.

I share an extraordinary amount of similar attributes as my daughter, same color/texture/length hair, same gestures when talking, same build, same stubbornness. if you get a pic of her at an age and me the same age they are indistinguishable unless based on paper age and clothing style. Major important difference though, we are two different people. Just because some religions Gods have similarities doesn’t mean they are the same God.

 

[rossum]

They are not all telling the TRUTH.

I agree. Many claim to have the TRUTH, but not all of them can have it since they differ. In order to determine which one (if any) has the TRUTH I need the METHOD to determine TRUTH from non-TRUTH. One person will tell me “read the Bible”, another will tell me “read the Qur’an”, another will tell me “read the Bhagavad Gita” and so forth. For each claimed TRUTH there is a correcponding claimed METHOD.

Hence I need a DECIDER to decide between the different methods. It is easy to see that there is an infinite regress here. In the absence of God/Allah/Krishna/etc. talking directly and unmistakeably to me I have no absolute way to know TRUTH. For me Buddhism works, so even if I do not have TRUTH I do have something that works.

rossum

 

[Memaw]

I agree. Many claim to have the TRUTH, but not all of them can have it since they differ. In order to determine which one (if any) has the TRUTH I need the METHOD to determine TRUTH from non-TRUTH. One person will tell me “read the Bible”, another will tell me “read the Qur’an”, another will tell me “read the Bhagavad Gita” and so forth. For each claimed TRUTH there is a correcponding claimed METHOD.

Hence I need a DECIDER to decide between the different methods. It is easy to see that there is an infinite regress here. In the absence of God/Allah/Krishna/etc. talking directly and unmistakeably to me I have no absolute way to know TRUTH. For me Buddhism works, so even if I do not have TRUTH I do have something that works.

rossum

Your looking in all the wrong places. Jesus Christ is the Way, the TRUTH and the Life. You need to seek Him and study into His life. Read the Early Church Fathers and see how they followed Jesus. You could go talk to a priest and let him help you find the TRUTH. Only the truth truly works, everything else falls short. Your only fooling yourself.

 

[rossum]

Your looking in all the wrong places. Jesus Christ is the Way, the TRUTH and the Life.

You say this, but my local Rabbi says differently. How can I determine whether you are right or he is right or neither of you are right? There are many claims to have the TRUTH. How can I reliably determine which claims are correct? There is no point in using an unreliable method.

Only the truth truly works, everything else falls short.

Buddhism works for me. Are you agreeing that Buddhism is the truth? What about Buddhsim being the TRUTH?

rossum

 

[Memaw]

You say this, but my local Rabbi says differently. How can I determine whether you are right or he is right or neither of you are right? There are many claims to have the TRUTH. How can I reliably determine which claims are correct? There is no point in using an unreliable method.

Buddhism works for me. Are you agreeing that Buddhism is the truth? What about Buddhsim being the TRUTH?

rossum

Well you can just set there and say “Ennie, minnie, miney moe, this works for me, so here I go.”
I AM saying there is only ONE TRUTH and that is JESUS CHRIST. Without HIM you do not have TRUTH. Good feeling maybe, good ideas or opinions that seem to work, but you do NOT have the full TRUTH. You will only find that in Jesus. But you need to do some studying into His life. Why HE died for your sins, Let Jesus speak for Himself, don’t let others tell you Hes not necessary in your life. Read the New Testament. And Pray that God will lead you to the truth. If you are sincere and you listen to HIM in your heart and soul, HE will lead to to HIMSELF.

 

[blacktiger057]

These issues are debated among Catholics so I thought I’d get the opinon of some non-Catholics (Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Wiccan…I don’t care, just as long as you’re not Catholic and fervent in your own religion). What do you think of:

The prayer meeting of Assisi?

The changes in the Mass?
The priest facing the people?
The reception of Communion from the Cup?
The use of EOMHCs?
The vernacular?
Communion in the hand?

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?
The traditional movement in general?

The Pope praying for the coming of the Messiah in the synogogue?

The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?

I m highly eclectic in my religious views, but the belief system I am closest to is Wiccan.

1. I am not familiar with that meeting, but I love the prayer of peace by St. Francis of Assisi.
2. I don’t know all the changes in mass, but I think it should be given in one’s native tongue and not Latin since hardly anyone speaks it anymore. Whatever language is the msot understandable to the mass participants should be the one used, although Latin does sound cool.
3. The priest facing the people is good. It helps him connect with his audience, which is important so that they will listen.
4. I don’t take Communion from the Cup, since there are so many diseases out in the world. I think it is very poor hygiene- sometimes hundreds of people drink out of the same cup. But that’s just because I’m a germ-freak, it is a beautiful practice in ritual.
5. I think that the Church excommunicating people from the Church is stupid. It is contrary to the message of love and forgiveness that the Church preaches.
6. I think that the second coming of Jesus is when we realize our Christ-consciousness, so my interpretations on scripture are very different. I don’t think it is bad to pray for it though, as it has good intentions and sends positive energy into the world. Praying in a synagogue helped the separation that has come from religion stop.
7. I think that everyone worships the same Divine Being. But God is like a diamond. The diamond has many facets, and it is impossible to see all the facets at once. Jesus is one facet while Athena is another. Diversity enriches. All is one.

 

[elvisman]

I m highly eclectic in my religious views, but the belief system I am closest to is Wiccan.

1. I am not familiar with that meeting, but I love the prayer of peace by St. Francis of Assisi.
2. I don’t know all the changes in mass, but I think it should be given in one’s native tongue and not Latin since hardly anyone speaks it anymore. Whatever language is the msot understandable to the mass participants should be the one used, although Latin does sound cool.
3. The priest facing the people is good. It helps him connect with his audience, which is important so that they will listen.
4. I don’t take Communion from the Cup, since there are so many diseases out in the world. I think it is very poor hygiene- sometimes hundreds of people drink out of the same cup. But that’s just because I’m a germ-freak, it is a beautiful practice in ritual.
5. I think that the Church excommunicating people from the Church is stupid. It is contrary to the message of love and forgiveness that the Church preaches.
6. I think that the second coming of Jesus is when we realize our Christ-consciousness, so my interpretations on scripture are very different. I don’t think it is bad to pray for it though, as it has good intentions and sends positive energy into the world. Praying in a synagogue helped the separation that has come from religion stop.
7. I think that everyone worships the same Divine Being. But God is like a diamond. The diamond has many facets, and it is impossible to see all the facets at once. Jesus is one facet while Athena is another. Diversity enriches. All is one.

I hope to God you aren’t receiving communion in a Catholic Church at all - let alone the cup.
Somebody who professes to be closest to Wiccan beliefs has no business receiving the Eucharist in the Catholic Church as they are not in communion with the Church.

As for excommunication being “stupid”, it is sometimes necessary so that the person may become repentant. It’s also biblical (1Cor. 5:5).

 

[blacktiger057]

I hope to God you aren’t receiving communion in a Catholic Church at all - let alone the cup.
**Somebody who professes to be closest to Wiccan **beliefs has no business receiving the Eucharist in the Catholic Church as they are not in communion with the Church.

As for excommunication being "stupid", it is sometimes necessary so that the person may become repentant. It’s also biblical (1Cor. 5:5).

Oh, that was a lovely, Christian comment. If I were Christian I would want everyone to recieve Christ’s love. And I would not presume that I had the power to shut people off from God’s love because I did not deem them worthy. That’s just silly.

Wicca and Christianity, while ritually different, have some of the same core morals. And they have the same holidays celebrating the same things, only with different labels. Paganism has influenced Christianity a lot.

I can see the love in the Communion, and although Church isn’t my first choice of expressing my worship to the Divine, I still enjoy it. As long as I live with my parents, I don’t have a choice.

I think that in rare cases excommunication is necessary, as you said, but I do not think it is justified in a lot of the cases it has been used in. And lots of things are biblical that we would consider morally incompetent today. Like the treatment of women in the Old Testament or how often people killed over differing religious beliefs and how you are instructed to stone me to death because I’m not fully Christian.

I see excommunication as mostly judgmental and therefore stupid when you are preaching that you shouldn’t judge, leave that to God, and to love and forgive. Forgiveness and love are one of the most challenging messages to live out, and these are the ones that made Jesus so radically different from other teachers of the time.

Many Blessings,
Blacktiger

 

[elvisman]

Oh, that was a lovely, Christian comment. If I were Christian I would want everyone to recieve Christ’s love. And I would not presume that I had the power to shut people off from God’s love because I did not deem them worthy. That’s just silly.

Wicca and Christianity, while ritually different, have some of the same core morals. And they have the same holidays celebrating the same things, only with different labels. Paganism has influenced Christianity a lot.

I can see the love in the Communion, and although Church isn’t my first choice of expressing my worship to the Divine, I still enjoy it. As long as I live with my parents, I don’t have a choice.

I think that in rare cases excommunication is necessary, as you said, but I do not think it is justified in a lot of the cases it has been used in. And lots of things are biblical that we would consider morally incompetent today. Like the treatment of women in the Old Testament or how often people killed over differing religious beliefs and how you are instructed to stone me to death because I’m not fully Christian.

I see excommunication as mostly judgmental and therefore stupid when you are preaching that you shouldn’t judge, leave that to God, and to love and forgive. Forgiveness and love are one of the most challenging messages to live out, and these are the ones that made Jesus so radically different from other teachers of the time.

Many Blessings,
Blacktiger

Your comment, “If I were Christian” speaks volumes. If you’re not a Christian – if you’re not a Catholic in a state of grace - you have**** no business**** receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord. That is reserved for those who are in communion with the Church**, that is to say, fully accept** Catholic teachings and are in a state of grace.**
As a Christian, I want everybody to accept God’s love – but that is up to them – not God. He gives it and it is up to us to accept** it.**

As for some being deemed not worthy, apparently, you’re not familiar with the scriptures. **
1Cor. 11:27-30 emphatically** states:
“Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthilywill have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord***.***
A person should*** examine himself******, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. ***
For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself***. ***
That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying***.” ***

As for Paganism having influenced Christianity – it’s the other way around. If you knew your history, you would know that because of Christianity – many pagan beliefs and holidays became all but extinct. It is only in the last 100 years that this “new paganism” has had a rebirth of sorts because of so many confused people being misled by charlatans.

Your** lack**** of scriptural knowledge knows**** no**** bounds as you claim that we are instructed to stone somebody to death because they do not believe. Nowhere does the New Testament tell us to do this. **

**Finally, as to your comment about excommunication being “judgmental” and therefore, “stupid” - again, you know ****not ****the scriptures. We are called to judge rightly - we are ****not ****to condemn a person. That is **not up to us.
2 Tim. 3:16-17 says:
All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

2 Tim. 4:1-4** says:**
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingly power: proclaim the word; be persistent whether it is convenient or inconvenient;*** convince******, reprimand, encourage through all patience and teaching. ***
For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths.** (Does that last** part sound familiar??)

And again with:
Titus 2:15
Ephesians 5:11
1 Corinthians 2:15-16

If the truth hurts, then maybe you’re doing something wrong.**