looking for non-Catholic opinion

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And I would not presume that I had the power to shut people off from God’s love because I did not deem them worthy.
You are corrrect, people excommunicate themselves. Only the bishop can announce their excommunication.
Paganism has influenced Christianity a lot.
and which pagan docrines would those be?
I think that in rare cases excommunication is necessary, as you said, but I do not think it is justified in a lot of the cases it has been used in. And lots of things are biblical that we would consider morally incompetent today. Like the treatment of women in the Old Testament or how often people killed over differing religious beliefs and how you are instructed to stone me to death because I’m not fully Christian.

I see excommunication as mostly judgmental and therefore stupid when you are preaching that you shouldn’t judge, leave that to God, and to love and forgive. Forgiveness and love are one of the most challenging messages to live out, and these are the ones that made Jesus so radically different from other teachers of the time.

Many Blessings,
Blacktiger
Are you Christian? Do you believe in the Bible?

Jesus calls us to obedience. He calls us to lovingly correct one another. He also condemns those who lead even ONE person astray.

*Matthew 18:6-7, 15-18

6
"**Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. **
7
6Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come!

15
"**If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. **16
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Pagan or a tax collector.
18
Amen, I say to you, **whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. ***
 
I don’t understand the question…before I was Catholic I didn’t care about Catholic issues (didn’t even know what they were) and I don’t see why non-Catholic opinion on Catholic issues makes any difference? :confused:
 
I don’t understand the question…before I was Catholic I didn’t care about Catholic issues (didn’t even know what they were) and I don’t see why non-Catholic opinion on Catholic issues makes any difference? :confused:
You’re right. It’s silly. Probably started with an agenda that the CC changes it’s teachings. 😉
 
Your lack of scriptural knowledge knows no bounds as you claim that we are instructed to stone somebody to death because they do not believe. Nowhere does the New Testament tell us to do this.
You should read my post more carefully. I said it was in the Old Testament, not the New.
Your comment, “If I were Christian” speaks volumes. If you’re not a Christian – if you’re not a Catholic in a state of grace - you have no business receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord. That is reserved for those who are in communion with the Church, that is to say, fully accept Catholic teachings and are in a state of grace.
As a Christian, I want everybody to accept God’s love – but that is up to them – not God. He gives it and it is up to us to accept it.
Well, I don’t give my beliefs a label, but some of them are Christian. But yes, I wouldn’t consider myself a full Christian. I fully accept God’s love. I just use different labels when talking about his love than you do, but we are both talking about the same thing. And as I said before, I don’t have a choice. I’m still a teenager, and we go to Church as a family.
As for Paganism having influenced Christianity – it’s the other way around. If you knew your history, you would know that because of Christianity – many pagan beliefs and holidays became all but extinct. It is only in the last 100 years that this “new paganism” has had a rebirth of sorts because of so many confused people being misled by charlatans.
What are you talking about? Pagans used inscence first, Yule became Christmas, which is almost all pagan traditions (birth of the Son of God, evergreen trees, gift-giving, big feasts), Ostara became Easter (egg-hunting and the bunnies are pagan), Samhain became All Saints Day and Halloween (mostly all traditions of Halloween are pagan), the statues of Isis breast-feeding Horus inspired the statues of Mary and Jesus, the Jewish day of worship is Saturday but for Christians it is Sunday because that was when the Roman pagans worshipped the Sun, hence Sun-day, Mithros, Dionysus, and Horus have numerous similiarities with Jesus, and wedding rings, just off the top of my head. It is important to note that although Neo-Paganism has many roots to ancient Paganism, they are not the same.
 
You should read my post more carefully. I said it was in the Old Testament, not the New.
There were no Christians in the Old Testament. Therefore, they couldn’t be commanded to stone somebody to death because of their unbelief.
Well, I don’t give my beliefs a label, but some of them are Christian. But yes, I wouldn’t consider myself a full Christian. I fully accept God’s love. I just use different labels when talking about his love than you do, but we are both talking about the same thing. And as I said before, I don’t have a choice. I’m still a teenager, and we go to Church as a family.
We’re not talking about the same thing when it comes to God. You can’t be partly Christian and partly pagan. Reveleation 3:16 tells us, *"*So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.".
If you “fully accept God’s love” you’ll know that he demands obedience.
Also, you have a choice whether or not to receive communion – whether or not you live at home.
If you don’t fully accept the Church’s teachings and are not in a state of grace you should not receive.
Talk to your parents or your parish priest about it.
What are you talking about? Pagans used inscence first, Yule became Christmas, which is almost all pagan traditions (birth of the Son of God, evergreen trees, gift-giving, big feasts), Ostara became Easter (egg-hunting and the bunnies are pagan), Samhain became All Saints Day and Halloween (mostly all traditions of Halloween are pagan), the statues of Isis breast-feeding Horus inspired the statues of Mary and Jesus, the Jewish day of worship is Saturday but for Christians it is Sunday because that was when the Roman pagans worshipped the Sun, hence Sun-day, Mithros, Dionysus, and Horus have numerous similiarities with Jesus, and wedding rings, just off the top of my head. It is important to note that although Neo-Paganism has many roots to ancient Paganism, they are not the same.
Boy – you are confused.
A rudimentary study of history and scripture proves you wrong.

Incense was born of burnt offerings that were used since the beginning of mankind.

Sunday was chosen as the day of worship by Christians because it was the day of Jesus’ resurrection.
Read your bible and the Early Church Fathers.

As for Christmas, are you telling me that Jesus was never born? It wasn’t borrowed from paganism - it’s the celebration of our Lord’s birth.

Images of Mary holding Jesus have nothing to do with Isis and Horus. What has happened to you is a sad but all-too-often tragedy of being manipulated - either by somebody or something in written form. All of these things have been debunked but you have allowed
them to take root because it sounds true.
 
Incense was born of burnt offerings that were used since the beginning of mankind.
Paganism was the first religion. This is an umbrella term and goes back to many “caveman” religions and rituals. Pagans were the first use inscense, as when Abraham found the God of Israel he was the only one while everyone else were pagans, and they used inscense in these times.
Sunday was chosen as the day of worship by Christians because it was the day of Jesus’ resurrection. Read your bible and the Early Church Fathers.
The Bible is not a good source of information if we are talking about history, since it is a little bit of faith and history entwined. But I saw on the History channel (info on this channel is usually quite well-researched and accurate) that Constantine, the Roman Emperor, was a pagan converted and kept the day of worship on Sunday, the pagan day of worship, rather than the Jewish one, which is Saturday. So it is again pagan in origin. Jesus traditionally rising on Sunday may also be a reason added later, but the original reason was because of the pagans.
As for Christmas, are you telling me that Jesus was never born? It wasn’t borrowed from paganism - it’s the celebration of our Lord’s birth.
Not necessarily. There is evidence that Jesus was born sometime in the spring or summer, but certainly not winter. The date, Dec. 25, is purely tradition—and a pagan tradition at that. The 25th coincides closely with the winter solstice, or Yule, a major holiday in which pagans celebrate the birth of God. Mithros was born on December 25th. And almost all Christmas traditions, mentioned in my post before, are pagan.

There isn’t that much evidence besides the Gospels that Jesus even existed. The first Gospels weren’t written until at least 50-80 years after Christ’s death by anonymous authors. All stories were passed down through oral tradition. It is very likely that many unknown scribes altered the original texts of the New Testament before a final version was settled on between the third and fourth centuries AD. It is also probable that kings and priests may have altered the Bible for various reasons. There is no agreed method for sorting out when a verse entered the gospels or what the original wording might have been. There were other gospels, such as the Gnostic Gospels, that were not chosen to be in the Bible and labeled heretical. But how did people who never even met Jesus justify ignoring and trying to destroy them? Words are attributed to Jesus that no one could possibly have heard, such as in the garden of Gethsemane. The four gospels also contain too many gaps. There is nothing close to a full biography, Except for his appearance at the temple when he was 12, there is no information from the time of his birth to his baptism. The Jesus of the gospels is psychologically incomplete as well. He never smiles or laughs. He rarely refers to himself at all. He never speaks of his birth in Bethlehem or the miraculous events surrounding it. He doesn’t tell us if he is married or single. The writers of the gospels set out not to tell the facts of life but to convert nonbelievers and support their own belief in Jesus as the Messiah. To this end they almost certainly exaggerated events, invented miracles, and put words into Jesus’ mouth. For example, Jesus often directly quotes Old Testament prophecies about the coming Messiah or refers to them. Is this how the actual Messiah spoke or how a messiah has to speak if converts are to be won over? So no one can validly say “Jesus spoke these exact words.”
Images of Mary holding Jesus have nothing to do with Isis and Horus.
The statues of Horus and Isis came first, way before Jesus and Mary. It is the same archetypal image, so even though they have different labels they are the same thing.
What has happened to you is a sad but all-too-often tragedy of being manipulated - either by somebody or something in written form. All of these things have been debunked but you have allowed them to take root because it sounds true.
Stop accusing me of having no grasp on history when you blindly think that everything in the Bible is historically true. I have debunked everything you have said to be pagan in origin. You seem to be much more religiously misinformed about history than I am.
 
:cool:
Paganism was the first religion. This is an umbrella term and goes back to many “caveman” religions and rituals. Pagans were the first use inscense, as when Abraham found the God of Israel he was the only one while everyone else were pagans, and they used inscense in these times.

The Bible is not a good source of information if we are talking about history, since it is a little bit of faith and history entwined. But I saw on the History channel (info on this channel is usually quite well-researched and accurate) that Constantine, the Roman Emperor, was a pagan converted and kept the day of worship on Sunday, the pagan day of worship, rather than the Jewish one, which is Saturday. So it is again pagan in origin. Jesus traditionally rising on Sunday may also be a reason added later, but the original reason was because of the pagans.

Not necessarily. There is evidence that Jesus was born sometime in the spring or summer, but certainly not winter. The date, Dec. 25, is purely tradition—and a pagan tradition at that. The 25th coincides closely with the winter solstice, or Yule, a major holiday in which pagans celebrate the birth of God. Mithros was born on December 25th. And almost all Christmas traditions, mentioned in my post before, are pagan.

There isn’t that much evidence besides the Gospels that Jesus even existed. The first Gospels weren’t written until at least 50-80 years after Christ’s death by anonymous authors. All stories were passed down through oral tradition. It is very likely that many unknown scribes altered the original texts of the New Testament before a final version was settled on between the third and fourth centuries AD. It is also probable that kings and priests may have altered the Bible for various reasons. There is no agreed method for sorting out when a verse entered the gospels or what the original wording might have been. There were other gospels, such as the Gnostic Gospels, that were not chosen to be in the Bible and labeled heretical. But how did people who never even met Jesus justify ignoring and trying to destroy them? Words are attributed to Jesus that no one could possibly have heard, such as in the garden of Gethsemane. The four gospels also contain too many gaps. There is nothing close to a full biography, Except for his appearance at the temple when he was 12, there is no information from the time of his birth to his baptism. The Jesus of the gospels is psychologically incomplete as well. He never smiles or laughs. He rarely refers to himself at all. He never speaks of his birth in Bethlehem or the miraculous events surrounding it. He doesn’t tell us if he is married or single. The writers of the gospels set out not to tell the facts of life but to convert nonbelievers and support their own belief in Jesus as the Messiah. To this end they almost certainly exaggerated events, invented miracles, and put words into Jesus’ mouth. For example, Jesus often directly quotes Old Testament prophecies about the coming Messiah or refers to them. Is this how the actual Messiah spoke or how a messiah has to speak if converts are to be won over? So no one can validly say “Jesus spoke these exact words.”

The statues of Horus and Isis came first, way before Jesus and Mary. It is the same archetypal image, so even though they have different labels they are the same thing.

Stop accusing me of having no grasp on history when you blindly think that everything in the Bible is historically true. I have debunked everything you have said to be pagan in origin. You seem to be much more religiously misinformed about history than I am.
And you’re getting a lot of your information by none other than New Age Huckster Deepak Chopra. You simply copied and pasted many of his claims. I Googled your statements and low and behold - they came straight from his mouth.

Gleaning your “evidence” from the History Channel has exposed you as well. The History Channel is a Darwinian and atheistic source which has little regard for historical truth. Constantine chose Sunday? Rubbish!

Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2, clearly show that Sunday was the day they gathered for worhip and communion - 300 years before Constantine.

Constantine, indeed!**

Look - I realize it’s not fair picking on somebody as young and impressionable as you - but you need to wake up about some of the rubbish you have fallen for.

Jesus “rarely refers to himself”?? Have you ever read the New Testament? He refers to himself as the “Son of Man” and the “Son” dozens of times.

As for your contention about Christmas - MANY scholars now believe that Jesus was born right around the time we celebrate his birth - in what we now refer to as December.

And by the way, the bible is an excellent historical record according to most historians. It’s stories and events can easily be corroborated by secular sources.

Don’t reply until you’ve cracked open a Bible or a history book. ONLY then can we have some honest and intellectual discourse. Don’t just copy and paste somebody else’s arguments. It’s a dead giveaway that you haven’t a clue as to what you’re talking about . . .
 
These issues are debated among Catholics so I thought I’d get the opinon of some non-Catholics (Protestant, Jew, Hindu, Wiccan…I don’t care, just as long as you’re not Catholic and fervent in your own religion). What do you think of:
Why would you even care what a witch or a Hindu, etc. thinks about your God? We are here to serve God and him alone…we are to be in this world but not of it Titus 2:12. We are suppose to think upon things that come from above…all things good and sweet and wonderful in God.

The prayer meeting of Assisi? St. Francis of Assisi?

The changes in the Mass? ?? don’t know what those are
The priest facing the people?He has done this for the past 35 years or more…why be concerned now?
The reception of Communion from the Cup? How else would you receive the wine?
The use of EOMHCs? ???don’t know this shortcut?
The vernacular? English is the most widley used at the present and the Latin form years ago was not understood by all. they were trying to meke it easy for everyone.
Communion in the hand? I know you believe it is the body of Christ…but it is not and so taking a cracr in ok.

The excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre?Not sure what he did
The traditional movement in general? Tje movement to put Mary at the forfront of everythng would conscern me more.

The Pope praying for the coming of the Messiah in the synogogue? There are some Jews, messanic" jews and they do believe in Jesus as the coming messiah

The statement that Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God?
I believe Jews know the same Father God that Christians,and the like, Not the Muslims, Mormons, JW, etc.
 
I don’t understand the question…before I was Catholic I didn’t care about Catholic issues (didn’t even know what they were) and I don’t see why non-Catholic opinion on Catholic issues makes any difference? :confused:
Well their opinion doesn’t make any difference to a devout Catholic except it might help them understand us better if we can discuss it. how did you come to understand the Catholic Faith?
 
Well their opinion doesn’t make any difference to a devout Catholic except it might help them understand us better if we can discuss it. how did you come to understand the Catholic Faith?
after leaving JWs I was a witch for years but I knew if there was any authentic Christianity it had to be Catholicism, so I was always interested and read books and stuff on the internet. I just could not totally let go of Christianity. Then I married a non-practicing Catholic and for our 5th wedding anniversary I decided we needed to be married ‘in the Church’ so I attended an RCIA class. I have to say that I did not learn much of anything from the class. But I read on my own and asked the priest questions. I came into the Church in 2002, getting Baptized and Confirmed and Married within a month.
 
:cool:
And you’re getting a lot of your information by none other than New Age Huckster Deepak Chopra. You simply copied and pasted many of his claims. I Googled your statements and low and behold - they came straight from his mouth.

Gleaning your "evidence" from the History Channel has exposed you as well. The History Channel is a Darwinian and atheistic source which has little regard for historical truth. Constantine chose Sunday? Rubbish!

Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2, clearly show that Sunday was the day they gathered for worhip and communion - 300 years before Constantine.
Constantine, indeed**!

**Look - I realize it’s not fair picking on somebody as young **and impressionable as you - but you need to wake up about some of the rubbish you have fallen for.

Jesus "rarely refers to himself"?? Have you ever read the New Testament? He refers to himself as the “Son of Man” and the “Son” dozens of times.

As for your contention about Christmas - MANY scholars now believe that Jesus was born right around the time we celebrate his birth - in what we now refer to as December.

**And by the way, the bible is an excellent **historical record according to most historians. It’s stories and events can easily be corroborated by secular sources.

Don’t reply until you’ve cracked open a Bible or a history book. ONLY then can we have some honest and intellectual discourse. Don’t just copy and paste somebody else’s arguments. It’s a dead giveaway that you haven’t a clue as to what you’re talking about . . .
:amen:

After reading your post, I Googled it too and found the same thing. You have done a great service to the many lurkers here.

Blacktiger, by your logic, please answer the following,

I was born on Christmas Eve and we celebrate my birthday then. Does that make my birthday a pagan holiday?

I have a sister who is 11 months younger than me. When we were little girls, my parents used to celebrate our birthdays on her birthday (12/2), so I wouldn’t be robbed of it by Christmas Eve celebrations. Does that mean I didn’t have a birthday on 12/24?
 
Well, I don’t give my beliefs a label, but some of them are Christian. But yes, I wouldn’t consider myself a full Christian. I fully accept God’s love. I just use different labels when talking about his love than you do, but we are both talking about the same thing. And as I said before, I don’t have a choice. I’m still a teenager, and we go to Church as a family.
Maybe you ought to listen to the readings and the homilies.
 
Paganism was the first religion. This is an umbrella term and goes back to many “caveman” religions and rituals. Pagans were the first use inscense, as when Abraham found the God of Israel he was the only one while everyone else were pagans, and they used inscense in these times.
Adam and Eve were the first Human Beings and they weren’t Pagan. Noah, Abram’s forefather, wasn’t pagan.

Maybe the pagans that descended from Adam and Eve adopted some God’s laws without accepting God. They liked some of the custom’s His children practised, and added a few that were not allowed, like human sacrifice and ritual prostitution of children. 😉

Let’s see, another custom of Pagans is they eat and sleep, by your logic when I do that, I am adopting pagan customs. :dts:
 
after leaving JWs I was a witch for years but I knew if there was any authentic Christianity it had to be Catholicism, so I was always interested and read books and stuff on the internet. I just could not totally let go of Christianity. Then I married a non-practicing Catholic and for our 5th wedding anniversary I decided we needed to be married ‘in the Church’ so I attended an RCIA class. I have to say that I did not learn much of anything from the class. But I read on my own and asked the priest questions. I came into the Church in 2002, getting Baptized and Confirmed and Married within a month.
And I hope you are continuing to learn as its a lifelong journey. But just be sure you read the right things. What the Catholic Church truly teaches.
 
after leaving JWs I was a witch for years but I knew if there was any authentic Christianity it had to be Catholicism, so I was always interested and read books and stuff on the internet. I just could not totally let go of Christianity. Then I married a non-practicing Catholic and for our 5th wedding anniversary I decided we needed to be married ‘in the Church’ so I attended an RCIA class. I have to say that I did not learn much of anything from the class. But I read on my own and asked the priest questions. I came into the Church in 2002, getting Baptized and Confirmed and Married within a month.
Wonderful, it just shows the Holy Spirit works thru many obstacles to lead us to the TRUTH.
 
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