Losing their religion? Catholicism in turmoil

[markomalley]

This “uplifting”(/sarc) update from our good friends at MS-NBC…
WARSAW, Poland - An Austrian priest avoids mention of Pope Benedict XVI in his Masses. A Philadelphia woman stops going to confession, saying she now sees priests as more flawed than herself. British protesters call for the pontiff to resign.
As the faithful fill churches this Holy Week, many Roman Catholics around the world are finding their relationship to the church painfully tested by new revelations of clerical abuse and suggestions Benedict himself may have helped cover up cases in Germany and the U.S.
There are fears that for those whose commitment is already wavering, the scandal could be the final blow, and a growing chorus is clamoring for the church to embrace full transparency, take a hard line against pedophiles, and reconsider the rule of priestly celibacy.So in other words, it’s the normal and rational thing to do to leave the Church. (Also, the article attacks Ratzinger’s authority and advocates for married priests and womynpriests)

Interesting to see how this is playing out throughout Satan’s mouthpieces.

The tragic shame is that there are those who will make their faith shipwreck because of articles like these.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

This “uplifting”(/sarc) update from our good friends at MS-NBC…
WARSAW, Poland - An Austrian priest avoids mention of Pope Benedict XVI in his Masses. A Philadelphia woman stops going to confession, saying she now sees priests as more flawed than herself. British protesters call for the pontiff to resign.
As the faithful fill churches this Holy Week, many Roman Catholics around the world are finding their relationship to the church painfully tested by new revelations of clerical abuse and suggestions Benedict himself may have helped cover up cases in Germany and the U.S.
There are fears that for those whose commitment is already wavering, the scandal could be the final blow, and a growing chorus is clamoring for the church to embrace full transparency, take a hard line against pedophiles, and reconsider the rule of priestly celibacy.So in other words, it’s the normal and rational thing to do to leave the Church. (Also, the article attacks Ratzinger’s authority and advocates for married priests and womynpriests)

Interesting to see how this is playing out throughout Satan’s mouthpieces.

The tragic shame is that there are those who will make their faith shipwreck because of articles like these.

I think the media is making most of this up. I wouldn’t listen to thier lies.

 

[adv1sor]

Don’t be overly concerned with anything the news has to say.

I do wish that the Pope would, himself, make some statement about his involvement or lack thereof in the coverup.

But I don’t worry too much about the Church. I have it on good authority that even the gates of hell will not prevail against this church

 

[Tantum_ergo]

With respect (because people can make hasty decisions which they later regret), are some of these people ‘losing their religion’ or are they simply reacting to a flawed view of what they think religion is?

Catholic faith does not rest upon whether its leaders are saintly, godly men who never sin.

Catholic faith in fact does not rest on the words or actions of any of its members except for one. . .Jesus Christ.

So if people are falling away because they are stunned that priests or bishops are sinners. . .they have a wrong view of Catholicism to begin with. In fact, in a sense they NEED to fall away from this wrong view in order to learn the TRUTH. That’s why I don’t despair of them coming around to the truth once they work their way through rejecting what the Church ‘isn’t’ and finally learning what the Church truly ‘is.’

Of course I find it extremely telling that the one woman is staying away from confession because she now feels priests are ‘worse than she is’. I mean, talk about collossal chutzpah here. She’s making a blanket judgment over ‘all’ priests and she is setting herself up as being ‘better’? Does she do this with all her neighbors too, assuming that she is ‘better’ as a Catholic than Mrs. O’Rourke because Mrs. O’Rourke still goes to confession and since these priests aren’t as ‘good’ as the dear lady, then Mrs. O’Rourke in ‘submitting’ to them is proving herself 'less good than the less good priests?"

I’m telling you, elementary logic and common sense seem to be qualities lacking in so many people today. Not to mention things like courtesy and a sense of sin (that’s for another thread). . .but in regard to this, the staggering lack of sense and logic in so many bleating that they have ‘lost the faith’ would be disheartening. . .except that, as I said, since they are rejecting a figment of their imagination in rejecting a Church that exists ONLY in their imagination, they can still return if they’re willing to learn and accept Truth.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

With respect (because people can make hasty decisions which they later regret), are some of these people ‘losing their religion’ or are they simply reacting to a flawed view of what they think religion is?

Catholic faith does not rest upon whether its leaders are saintly, godly men who never sin.

Catholic faith in fact does not rest on the words or actions of any of its members except for one. . .Jesus Christ.

So if people are falling away because they are stunned that priests or bishops are sinners. . .they have a wrong view of Catholicism to begin with. In fact, in a sense they NEED to fall away from this wrong view in order to learn the TRUTH. That’s why I don’t despair of them coming around to the truth once they work their way through rejecting what the Church ‘isn’t’ and finally learning what the Church truly ‘is.’

Of course I find it extremely telling that the one woman is staying away from confession because she now feels priests are ‘worse than she is’. I mean, talk about collossal chutzpah here. She’s making a blanket judgment over ‘all’ priests and she is setting herself up as being ‘better’? Does she do this with all her neighbors too, assuming that she is ‘better’ as a Catholic than Mrs. O’Rourke because Mrs. O’Rourke still goes to confession and since these priests aren’t as ‘good’ as the dear lady, then Mrs. O’Rourke in ‘submitting’ to them is proving herself 'less good than the less good priests?"

I’m telling you, elementary logic and common sense seem to be qualities lacking in so many people today. Not to mention things like courtesy and a sense of sin (that’s for another thread). . .but in regard to this, the staggering lack of sense and logic in so many bleating that they have ‘lost the faith’ would be disheartening. . .except that, as I said, since they are rejecting a figment of their imagination in rejecting a Church that exists ONLY in their imagination, they can still return if they’re willing to learn and accept Truth.

I agree with your post, but I think the media is hyping this thing up, as usual, like they do for all their so called “scandals”. I’m not quite sure what the motive is, but maybe because the Pope is originally from Germany, or because he is really getting popular as a leader and they see him as a threat. I don’t see people leaving the chuch in droves, on the contrary: I see many, many new converts these days!

I really think there is something creepy going on here, maybe a liberal agenda to try to make people non-religious so the government can have more control of their lives, or something more sinister. I don’t think this latest media propaganda is going to work though. I think Catholics are getting stronger in their faith, not weaker.

 

[A_Pseudonym]

I wouldn’t recommend Catholics ignore the lies told about Catholicism. I have found that if I can hear what other are hearing I can be more prepared to answer any accusations or insults. I do not push my religion on anybody but everybody knows I am Catholic. I am always surprised that people will come to me and ask questions when nobody else is around. But I do enjoy the opportunity to discuss what Catholics believe. I had a young lady at work ask me why we worship Mary. What an opportunity to talk about my religion.

 

[JenyTori]

I think it is time that Catholics understand that each of us is on his own journey…clergy included. Priests are no less in need of God’s grace and forgiveness for being ordained; in fact, their need might be greater. It is incumbent upon them to ‘avoid even the appearance of scandal’…a directive many of them have either never heard or have not taken seriously. Before V2, the parish priest was looked upon with such awe and trust and wonder…it was a bad thing, I think. We never thought of them as having demons of their own or weaknesses. When we heard Fr. So and So drank too much, we thought…“Well, poor man. He is all alone and if that makes his evenings more tolerable…so what” When we saw Father with small boys in tow, we thought “Isn’t that a lucky boy…in the company of a priest. His parents must be so proud.” At least now our eyes are opened and we realize that we can no longer be kept spiritual children…we must ask questions, work for change and improvement within the church and use the voice and power we have. Join the parish council, finance council; get involved and don’t be shy. Ask about things that bother you and volunteer when you can. Be part of the church life as well as the Church. Pray for the good priests that we have as well as the priests that have betrayed us. We need to be vigilant in protecting the church that Christ established…especially when we see that the danger can come from within.

 

[Garyjohn2]

I read this article this morning, and it made me a little upset. I don’t think it is the majority view at all of most Catholics. Also, the quote from the people that no longer go to confession because they feel the priests are not any holier than themselves…this is really sad. They should have never let themselves be tricked into thinking priests are any more than human, just like any of us.

I wish this article was never written. I really don’t think it’s fair.

 

[SMTA]

You folks are way too isolated, and not accepting reality…

There may be some media hype here, but the basic premise is simple;

The Vatican has sheltered rapists and child molesters.

The Vatican put the needs of the church above the welfare of catholic children.

The Vatican, in total arrogance, refuses to apologize or accept responsibility for their actions.

The Vatican has defiled the church, and all Catholics worldwide.

The pope is directly responsible for pedophile priests continue their activities.

The pope needs to either step down, or be removed, and the hierarchy of the church needs to be purged.

 

[gmarie21]

You folks are way too isolated, and not accepting reality…

There may be some media hype here, but the basic premise is simple;

The Vatican has sheltered rapists and child molesters.

The Vatican put the needs of the church above the welfare of catholic children.

The Vatican, in total arrogance, refuses to apologize or accept responsibility for their actions.

The Vatican has defiled the church, and all Catholics worldwide.

The pope is directly responsible for pedophile priests continue their activities.

The pope needs to either step down, or be removed, and the hierarchy of the church needs to be purged.

Did you even pay attention to his visit to the US around his 80th birthday? That isn’t the only time he’s apologized for the scandals.

 

[Garyjohn2]

The Vatican put the needs of the church above the welfare of catholic children.

The Vatican, in total arrogance, refuses to apologize or accept responsibility for their actions.

I disagreee with many of your statements…but not all of them. In any case, we know that priests did bad things. The Vatican may or may not have handled it properly. Either way, people should not be leaving the church because of this…and I don’t think this article is a fair representation of what is going on in people’s hearts and minds.

Most people belong to parishes that were not involved in any of this mess, and have nothing to do with it. The vast majority of Catholics have very nice, upstanding priests. This article is not fair.

 

[HyeDetroit]

A good quote we could all spend time today to think about:

“The storm of persecution is good. What is lost? You can’t lose something if it’s already lost. When the whole tree is not torn up by the roots- and there is no wind or hurricane that can uproot the tree of the Church- only the dry branches fall. And it is best that they fall.”
-St. Josemaria Escriva, #685, The Way

 

[Zatzat]

Interesting to see how this is playing out throughout Satan’s mouthpieces.

Critics who’ve exposed child sexual abuse at the hands of a priest and who’ve reported on the Popes role in the aftermath…are Satan’s mouthpieces?

Really?

They should be thanked for having brought such a serious and tragic course events into the light of day.

If Satan were at work, I trust he’d have had a hand in destroying children’s lives and not in having uncovered the scandal so as to assure it never happens again.

 

[hawkeye]

Jesus warns about this in the parable of the sower.

 

[hawkeye]

Also, the quote from the people that no longer go to confession because they feel the priests are not any holier than themselves…this is really sad. They should have never let themselves be tricked into thinking priests are any more than human, just like any of us.

It’s a good way to live as we like, " say look at him, his sins are worse than mine " thing is the power is in the Sacrament, not the priest, he is only the channel of Gods grace, it is Christ who forgives, in conformity with the priest.

Anyone that goes to Confession, confesses to a sinner, with Jesus the unseen witness at the tribunal.

We get married by sinners, Baptized, and buried by sinners, and we confess to sinners.

 

[Adeodatus]

Every year the media gins up some new thing for Holy Week. This year is no exception.

The real tragedy of the Culture War is that Catholics are standing around getting slaughtered by the devil’s henchmen, and aren’t even fighting back. It’s a shame and a waste.

 

[Zatzat]

Every year the media gins up some new thing for Holy Week. This year is no exception.

The real tragedy of the Culture War is that Catholics are standing around getting slaughtered by the devil’s henchmen, and aren’t even fighting back. It’s a shame and a waste.

All right then, I’m game for you to prove your claim true.

Please provide the major anti-Catholic headlines, that made international news, for Holy Week for the last 10 years.

Otherwise, I’ll have to read your comment as nothing more than empty rhetoric.

Thanks in advance.

 

[jc-servant]

Critics who’ve exposed child sexual abuse at the hands of a priest and who’ve reported on the Popes role in the aftermath…are Satan’s mouthpieces?

Really?

They should be thanked for having brought such a serious and tragic course events into the light of day.

If Satan were at work, I trust he’d have had a hand in destroying children’s lives and not in having uncovered the scandal so as to assure it never happens again.

Some people slap these type of extreme labels on anything that isn’t Fox News, so just ignore it because you certainly won’t be changing it around here. I

agree with you that abuse needs a light shined on it, but I’ve noticed that it has become popular for some groups to raise these issues with particular timing for our holy days like Easter and Christmas so that they can get attention. I’ve not heard anyone mention info about any current abuse in these recent news reports. They are fanning the same old flames of outrage about abuse cases that are many years old. There are a lot of the “usual suspects” on the news channels promoting their own agendas like Sinead O’Conner who tore up a photo of JPII more than a decade ago on TV and a well-known English atheist who has written anti-Christian books that have nothing to do with any type of abuse. These people hate our church period. They don’t care that the church has done all kinds of things to try to prevent any future abuse cases. My parish has been running background checks, giving “safe child” training and requiring that no adult be alone with a child at church for about 10 years. Public/private schools have the vast majority of past and current child abuse cases yet they still don’t have these types of rules in most places and the news ignores it. They know that people would panic because they must educate their kids somehow and they don’t want to recognize that kids are less safe at school than at church.

Should we question who knew about the abuse and actively participated in a cover up when they knew it was wrong? Sure. However, what is not talked about in these reports is that back in the early 70s and earlier the medical community was telling people that pedophiles could be “cured” with therapy and/or drugs. Church officials went along with the prevailing medical advice in many of these cases and sent the abusing priests to treatment facilities. When the doctors said it was OK to put them back to work (even if in another community out of respect for the victims), then the church put them back to work. I’ve seen some of this “old” attitude even on this board with people stating that if our priests were married that there would not have been any abuse. Wrong. Abusers of all stripes find a way to be near their potential victims whether it be as a priest, scout leader, swim instructor, etc.

Now with the 20/20 vision of hindsight there are a whole lot of critics of the church who are pounding this issue into the ground without looking at what happened with any perspective on why certain actions might have been taken in the past. I dislike seeing all of these stories where they assume malice or bad intentions or deliberate cover ups when in some cases well-meaning people were dealing with a horrible situation the best way they knew how at that time. It tells me that people have no clue about our church when I hear them say things like the Holy Father should be “impeached” or should resign or be fired as if he is in Congress or the CEO of a company.

I’m turning off these type of shows to prepare for the remainder of this week. After Easter there will be plenty of time to send emails and let them know that they are not talking to mainstream Catholics or even mainstream non-Catholics. I believe that the attacks on the Holy Father at this point are more about attacking our faith than looking for accountability or justice.

 

[JenyTori]

Critics who’ve exposed child sexual abuse at the hands of a priest and who’ve reported on the Popes role in the aftermath…are Satan’s mouthpieces?

Really?

They should be thanked for having brought such a serious and tragic course events into the light of day.

If Satan were at work, I trust he’d have had a hand in destroying children’s lives and not in having uncovered the scandal so as to assure it never happens again.

absolutely

 

[CHRISTINE77]

You folks are way too isolated, and not accepting reality…

There may be some media hype here, but the basic premise is simple;

The Vatican has sheltered rapists and child molesters.

The Vatican put the needs of the church above the welfare of catholic children.

The Vatican, in total arrogance, refuses to apologize or accept responsibility for their actions.

The Vatican has defiled the church, and all Catholics worldwide.

The pope is directly responsible for pedophile priests continue their activities.

The pope needs to either step down, or be removed, and the hierarchy of the church needs to be purged.

you don’t sound like a Catholic to me.