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J_the_Centrist
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“Switched,” or rather found Orthodox Christianity, the only Church that has remained faithful to Christ and His Apostolic ministry.
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Angel_Gabriel
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Yes, certainly fear plays a part. (And I’m not advocating for the use of the Pill.) But I do think people are too quick to judge others and accuse them of not trusting in God. We really dont’ know where their hearts and minds are.
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Vonsalza
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Because children are a strain upon ones resources - mental, financial, others. And given the issues #2 and #3 had/have and our economic situation at that time, we’d have likely suffered a mental breakdown if we tossed another kid in the mix.
Your logic here is that, essentially, “If X is good, why not have as many X as humanly possible?”
The reason you don’t have as many “X” as humanly possible is because of diminishing returns.
And I’m thrilled it worked out for the family in the Youtube video you’ve picked to support your case. But the flip side of that coin is that many families have broken or live in quiet desperation because their demands are consistently greater than their resources.
And for a lot of families, the trust manifests in the familial equivalent of Peter being killed in the streets of Rome.
“Trust in God” doesn’t always yield positive results. While we all enjoy the allure of prosperity gospel Christianity, there probably weren’t better Christians on the planet than Peter and Paul. They suffered often and died horribly.
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Gab123
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Yes indeed. While statistics show that about 90% use artificial contraception, so I guess there’s one reason why there’s a lack of religious vocations. These days it looks like the married Catholic laity are not living up to theirs. It’s a matter of trust-- a lack of trust in God.
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Angel_Gabriel
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Agreed! Ideally we would all have outside resources (including family memebers) to help with the raising of children. In reality it just doesn’t work like that.
In truth, I always wished I could have a large family. I have 1 brother and I no longer speak to him on a regular basis (if at all). I always wanted my kids to have what I didn’t have (siblings). The reality has been different. Motherhood, while a beautiful vocation, is also the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I’m a big introvert and love my space and it’s been a challenge living with 5 other people and not having time alone to recharge…or of course suffering through miscarriages (never gave that a thought when I was younger either), or children who have learning disabilities or other issues, or financial concerns etc…the list goes on. I don’t have family to help me much.
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MCH1
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Jesus founded the Church on Peter. So the Catholic Church is the true Church.
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Angel_Gabriel
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And here I question these stats…I just don’t know if I believe that 90% use artificial contraception. I still see lots of families with more than 3 kids. Or are you also including sterilization in with that? I do know several families (catholic and non catholic) who go that route also.
I also know lots of single people …I don’t’ think it’s connected to large families per se.
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Gab123
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A Catholic has to realize once and for all that following Christ will always entails suffering and sacrifice- That’s the whole point why Jesus said “unless you pick up your cross and follow me you cannot be my disciple” The problem is that nobody want’s to suffer for Christ. And nobody said having a family would be easy; it is the means through which married people are sanctified. So it comes down to a rejection of the cross. Having a large family without having faith in God and not having a prayer life is not going to work out very well. But God gives us so many tools and weapons for the journey. For example, it’s the reason the popes are constantly urging families to pray the Rosary every day as it comes with 15 Promises; or the devotion of the Sacred Heart which has 12 Promises. It really comes down to a lack of trust and love for God.
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As for the death of the apostles, not only did Peter and Paul suffer persecution and died martyrs, so did all the other apostles (except for John who was persecuted terribly, but died of old age). Most importantly JESUS died a terrible death: That’s the point of sanctification through our particular crosses in life. We all carry our crosses to a crucifixion and death of our worldly passions and attachments. Jesus showed us the way, and the way is always through the cross.
For most it seems like there is an aversion to the cross and a constant search for ways to avoid them, and deceived by the health and wealth gospel, when in fact it is the cross that sanctifies us.
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For a Catholic married couple to stop having children in order to have more money or a bigger house or to avoid certain crosses cannot compare to the eternal beings one cooperates into bringing into existence and teaching the faith to. The goal is to exert every ounce of energy and strength to serve God in this brief life, and to die, worn out and tired, fighting the good fight out of love for God, as the reward of serving God is to enjoy God for all eternity. After all, it was Jesus who said we must love God with all our heart, all our strength, all our might, and all our soul. Once we die, our chance is up; and all the things and material goods we accumulated are left behind.
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laylow
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Sounds a bit like a built in scare tactic.
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Angel_Gabriel
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I think you’re jumping the gun here…financial reasons don’t always equate to a bigger house. we’re attempting to pay off a lot of debt (student loans and medical bills mainly, some house repairs etc). I consider that a responsibility and a duty towards my children…I dont’ want them to deal with it when they are grown up.
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Vonsalza
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I refuse to sacrifice my reason, though.
If my end-of-the-month checking balance grows by less and less with every kid, that indicates a finite limit to how many children you can have before you’re stealing resources from other things (like already present children) to support the next child.
The bigger problem is that I don’t want to make my wife and other kids suffer “for Christ”/another irresponsibly conceived child. They can walk their own path.
Quite right. When I had 3 kids - 2 with issues, an over-tight budget and a wife that looked like she was going to crack any day now…
Trust me. Even stopping at 3. I know having a family isn’t easy. It would be disrespectful, factually wrong and indicatively ignorant to claim otherwise.
Yes. It seems suffering for its own sake is something most folks have difficulty doing.
Nope. Nope. Nope.
We didn’t stop having kids so we could have a bigger car or a nicer house.
We stopped having kids so we could stay sane.
We stopped having kids so we wouldn’t do something crazy like have a nervous breakdown or get a divorce or start to resent our babies for the burdens they placed on us and the rest of their family - particularly the one that really needed extra care.
And, frankly, your attempt to dismiss our very real issues as selfish desires for wealth and comfort is proof-positive that you’re incapable of answering the issue. Your only point of resolve seems to be to dismiss it or ignore it.
That’s not good enough for anybody that actually has a real problem. It forces them to seek answers elsewhere…
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steve-b
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What can I say,steve-b:
Sounds a bit like a built in scare tactic.
We don’t live in a consequence free existence.
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laylow
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Depends on who you are I guess!
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steve-b
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I don’t know anyone in my own life, who hasn’t experienced consequences for their actions.steve-b:
Depends on who you are I guess!
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laylow
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The POTUS seems to be pretty good at it, for starters!
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steve-b
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He’s had plenty of consequences befall him in his life.steve-b:
The POTUS seems to be pretty good at it, for starters!
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Shakuhachi
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MCH1
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The Catholic Church is the one and only true church. All rites in it (Latin, Byzantine, etc) are members of the true Church. Any Church that is not at this moment in communion with Rome is not the true Church. Any Church that is is a part of the true Church.
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PJM
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So friend; WHAT events caused you to abandon the Catholic Faith and Church?
Easter Blessings,
Patrick
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Gab123
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I’m not talking about you or anyone in this forum so don’t take my words personally.
As for children, It comes down to trust in God. Obviously if people don’t have faith and trust in God, then fears and hardships become paralyzing and insurmountable obstacles. Scripture describes how Jesus was not able to perform miracles where there was no faith. So it’s all about faith, that is, trust in God.
In the parable of the sower Jesus describes how the sower’s seeds fell in four different places; the seeds that fell among thorns were choked, as He described, by the anxieties and pleasures of this world. So if our hearts are on worldly things they tend to crowd God out. For God’s Plan to unfold and Divine Providence to come into our lives we have to make Jesus the Lord of our life.
What makes it tough for many Catholics is that if they are not in the state of grace, they are missing out on all the supernatural power that God gives us in overflowing measures through the Sacraments to get through life. Catholics who use artificial contraception are not living God’s Plan, so from the start they are telling God they do not trust in Him and want to live their life on their own terms. So God respects that. God doesn’t force anyone to do His will. His will is for everyone to go to heaven, but He gives us free will, so it is up to us. But He’s always calling us.
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