Loving Mary...

[Cathhsmom]

Oh, I almost forgot. The birth pains in Revelation are about Mary giving birth to her spiritual children, ie us sinners. I am sure that we give her lots of grief!

Also, here is part of the Scriptural Rosary from www.rosaryarmy.com

Scriptural Rosary - Sorrowful Mysteries
The prayer of the Rosary is divided up into four different sets of Mysteries (each set has 5 Mysteries). A truly powerful way to pray the Rosary, the Scriptural Rosary provides inspiration before every prayer in the Rosary, bringing the Mysteries of the Rosary to true life. Complete instructions for praying the Rosary are available here.

The First Sorrowful Mystery - The Agony in the Garden
Our Father

1. Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane. / And he began to be sorrowful and troubled. (Mt 26:36-37) Hail Mary
2. Then he said to them, / “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; / remain here, and watch with me.” (Mt 26:38)Hail Mary
3. And he withdrew from them / about a stone’s throw, / and knelt down and prayed. (Lk 22:41)Hail Mary
4. “Father, if you are willing, / remove this chalice from me; / nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done.” (Lk 22:42)Hail Mary
5. And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, / strengthening him. (Lk 22:43)Hail Mary
6. And being in agony / he prayed more earnestly. (Lk 22:44)Hail Mary
7. And his sweat became like great drops of blood / falling down upon the ground. (Lk 22:44)Hail Mary
8. And he came back to his disciples and found them sleeping; / and he said to Peter, / “So, could you not watch with me one hour?” (Mt 26:40)Hail Mary
9. “Watch and pray / that you may not enter into temptation.” (Mt 26:41)Hail Mary
10. “The spirit indeed is willing, / but the flesh is weak.” (Mt 26:41)Hail Mary

Glory be to the Father ~

The Second Sorrowful Mystery - The Scourging At The Pillar
Our Father

1. And as soon as it was morning / the chief priests, with the elders and scribes, / and the whole council held a consultation; / and they bound Jesus and led him away / and delivered him to Pilate./ And Pilate asked him, / “Are you the king of the Jews?” (Mk 15:1-2)Hail Mary
2. Jesus answered, / “My kingdom is not of this world; / if my kingship were of this world, / my servants would fight, / that I might not be handed over to the Jews; / but my kingship is not from the world.” (Jn 18:36)Hail Mary
3. Pilate said to him, / “So you are a king?” / Jesus answered, / “You say that I am a king. / For this I was born, / and for this I have come into the world, / to bear witness to the truth. / Every one who is of the truth hears my voice.” (Jn 18:37)Hail Mary
4. Pilate said to him, / “What is truth?” After he had said this, / he went out to the Jews again and told them, / “I find no crime in him.”(Jn 18:38)Hail Mary
5. “I will therefore chastise him and release him.” / Then Pilate took Jesus and scourged him. (Lk 23:16, Jn 19:1)Hail Mary
6. He was despised and rejected by men;/ a man of sorrows, / and acquainted with grief; / and as one from whom men hide their faces / he was despised, / and we esteemed him not. (Is 53:3)Hail Mary
7. He was oppressed, / and he was afflicted, / yet he opened not his mouth; / like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, / and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, / so he opened not his mouth. (Is 53:7)Hail Mary
8. But he was wounded for our transgressions, / he was bruised for our iniquities. (Is 53:5)Hail Mary
9. Surely he has borne our griefs / and carried our sorrows Yet we esteemed him stricken, / struck down by God, and afflicted. (Is 53:4)Hail Mary
10. Upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, / and with his stripes we are healed… (Is 53:5)Hail Mary

Glory be to the Father ~

The Third Sorrowful Mystery - The Crowning with Thorns
Our Father

1. And the soldiers led him away [to the Praetorium]. / And they stripped him and put a scarlet robe upon him. (Mk 15:16-17, Mt 27:28)Hail Mary
2. And plaiting a crown of thorns / they put it on his head, / and put a reed in his right hand. (Mt 27:29)Hail Mary
3. And kneeling before him they mocked him, saying, / “Hail, king of the Jews!” (Mt 27:29)Hail Mary
4. And they spat upon him / and took the reed and struck him on the head. (Mt 27:30)Hail Mary
5. [Then Pilate] took water / and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, / “I am innocent of this righteous man’s blood; / see to it yourselves.” (Mt 27:24)Hail Mary
6. So Jesus came out, / wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. (Jn 19:5)Hail Mary
7. [Pilate] said to the Jews, / “Here is your King!” / They cried out, / “Away with him, away with him, / Crucify him!” (Jn 19:15)Hail Mary
8. And Pilate said to them, / “Why, what evil has he done?” / But they shouted all the more, / “Crucify him.” (Mk15:14)Hail Mary
9. “Shall I crucify your king?” / The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.” (Jn 19:15)Hail Mary
10. So Pilate, wishing to satisfy the crowd,/ released for them Barabbas; / and having scouraged Jesus, / he delivered him to be crucified. (Mk 15:15)Hail Mary

Glory be to the Father ~

 

[Mike_Dye]

We dont adore Mary, we venerate her. All we ask for from Mary, or any other saint, is prayers. Note the Hail Mary:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
And Blessed is the friut of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death

We arent worshipping her. we are simply asking for her prayers.

Please, You are making too much sense and our separated brothers and sisters don’t like it when you explain our faith in a way that anyone can understand. They need to remain in their false sense of security.
I have found out a long time ago just to ignore them, I have no interest in trying to convert them to the truth. I just want them to leave me alone and I will leave them alone. I wont go on their sites and bash and bad mouth and I wish they would do the same.They can just go away.

 

[adolfo123]

The woman cries out in pain when she gives birth, which might be a problem for your teaching about her. If she was born without sin one would think she wouldn’t have had pain in childbirth because that is a result of the curse of sin is it not?.

This is not a problem for as revealation is, it is symbolic…Its both Mary and the Church the two virgins that brought the man child… ( the virgin mary and the virgin people of god ;the virgin daughter of zion.

The church is always in pain in all of the bible old and new test. So if Mary is immaculate she is not under the curse of Gen. 3:16… Well lets see if the Virgin Mary have pains or not as the catholic church teaches:

Isa 66:7 Before she travailed, she gave birth; before her pain came, she delivered a man child.

No pain no sin … I think we got the immaculate conception… later god bless…

 

[adolfo123]

What it does say is that Jesus told John to look after her as if she was his mother.

It also say’s that Jesus said to Mary to take John as a son…

Remember that this gospel is very very theological and symbolic like revelation and remember that John is both the author of John’s gospel and Revelation… This poetic gospel has more meaning then what you and I might even know…

here is commentary from the New American Bible…

[26-27] This scene has been interpreted literally, of Jesus’ concern for his mother; and symbolically, e.g., in the light of the Cana story in John 2 (the presence of the mother of Jesus, the address woman, and the mention of the hour) and of the upper room in John 13 (the presence of the beloved disciple; the hour). Now that the hour has come (John 19:28), Mary (a symbol of the church?) is given a role as the mother of Christians (personified by the beloved disciple); or, as a representative of those seeking salvation, she is supported by the disciple who interprets Jesus’ revelation; or Jewish and Gentile Christianity (or Israel and the Christian community) are reconciled.

here is an article about Mary’s last spoken word in the scriptures (John 2)… I think this would help shed some light on Mary as a symbol of the church ( the people of god in the old testament).

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0234.htm

 

[Mystophilus]

why is the love given to Mary from her catholic children, seen as idolatry…?

Because Protestants do not do it, and therefore it must be wrong.

Okay, that was rather sarcastic, but that it is pretty much how people work: the group with which I identify must be correct (because I would otherwise not identify with it), and so any group which does things differently must be doing things wrong.

Throw in the ardent egalitarianism of non-episcopal systems, and you get a strengthened reaction against the veneration of saints, which focusses against the most venerated.

However, you can still explain that you venerate Mary less than you venerate God, and any reasonable Protestant will understand that. The unreasonable ones, of any belief position, are not worth arguing with.

 

[jcrichton]

Israel gave birth to the Messiah, and indeed the sun and moon and twelve stars echos the dream that Joseph had concerning his family.

And the passage in John says nothing about Mary being my mother. What it does say is that Jesus told John to look after her as if she was his mother. To take John and say he’s the entire Church is stretching it beyond the context and indeed is reading something into the passage.

And those passages that supposedly justified praying to saints in heaven…sorry still don’t see it.

Israel did not give birth to the Messiah; quite the contrary, Israel denied the Messiah!

I asked you to read both the passages in Apocalypse and that of John… if you allow Scriptures to speak to you you can see a direct correlation between Jesus’ final act on the Cross concerning His Mother and the Church and Apocaplypse 12 where the Beast makes war on the Woman’s other children; if you cannot see it, there’s nothing I can do for you–other than to pray that one day you can discover it.

Ditto for the Communion of the Saints.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Oh, I almost forgot. The birth pains in Revelation are about Mary giving birth to her spiritual children, ie us sinners. I am sure that we give her lots of grief!

Also, here is part of the Scriptural Rosary from www.rosaryarmy.com

Scriptural Rosary - Sorrowful Mysteries
The prayer of the Rosary is divided up into four different sets of Mysteries (each set has 5 Mysteries). A truly powerful way to pray the Rosary, the Scriptural Rosary provides inspiration before every prayer in the Rosary, bringing the Mysteries of the Rosary to true life. Complete instructions for praying the Rosary are available here.

The First Sorrowful Mystery - The Agony in the Garden
Our Father

1. Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane. / And he began to be sorrowful and troubled. (Mt 26:36-37) Hail Mary
2. Then he said to them, / “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; / remain here, and watch with me.” (Mt 26:38)Hail Mary
3. And he withdrew from them / about a stone’s throw, / and knelt down and prayed. (Lk 22:41)Hail Mary
4. “Father, if you are willing, / remove this chalice from me; / nevertheless not my will, but yours, be done.” (Lk 22:42)Hail Mary
5. And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, / strengthening him. (Lk 22:43)Hail Mary
6. And being in agony / he prayed more earnestly. (Lk 22:44)Hail Mary
7. And his sweat became like great drops of blood / falling down upon the ground. (Lk 22:44)Hail Mary
8. And he came back to his disciples and found them sleeping; / and he said to Peter, / “So, could you not watch with me one hour?” (Mt 26:40)Hail Mary
9. “Watch and pray / that you may not enter into temptation.” (Mt 26:41)Hail Mary
10. “The spirit indeed is willing, / but the flesh is weak.” (Mt 26:41)Hail Mary

Glory be to the Father ~

The Second Sorrowful Mystery - The Scourging At The Pillar
Our Father

1. And as soon as it was morning / the chief priests, with the elders and scribes, / and the whole council held a consultation; / and they bound Jesus and led him away / and delivered him to Pilate./ And Pilate asked him, / “Are you the king of the Jews?” (Mk 15:1-2)Hail Mary
2. Jesus answered, / “My kingdom is not of this world; / if my kingship were of this world, / my servants would fight, / that I might not be handed over to the Jews; / but my kingship is not from the world.” (Jn 18:36)Hail Mary
3. Pilate said to him, / “So you are a king?” / Jesus answered, / “You say that I am a king. / For this I was born, / and for this I have come into the world, / to bear witness to the truth. / Every one who is of the truth hears my voice.” (Jn 18:37)Hail Mary
4. Pilate said to him, / “What is truth?” After he had said this, / he went out to the Jews again and told them, / “I find no crime in him.”(Jn 18:38)Hail Mary
5. “I will therefore chastise him and release him.” / Then Pilate took Jesus and scourged him. (Lk 23:16, Jn 19:1)Hail Mary
6. He was despised and rejected by men;/ a man of sorrows, / and acquainted with grief; / and as one from whom men hide their faces / he was despised, / and we esteemed him not. (Is 53:3)Hail Mary
7. He was oppressed, / and he was afflicted, / yet he opened not his mouth; / like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, / and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, / so he opened not his mouth. (Is 53:7)Hail Mary
8. But he was wounded for our transgressions, / he was bruised for our iniquities. (Is 53:5)Hail Mary
9. Surely he has borne our griefs / and carried our sorrows Yet we esteemed him stricken, / struck down by God, and afflicted. (Is 53:4)Hail Mary
10. Upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, / and with his stripes we are healed… (Is 53:5)Hail Mary

Glory be to the Father ~

The Third Sorrowful Mystery - The Crowning with Thorns
Our Father

1. And the soldiers led him away [to the Praetorium]. / And they stripped him and put a scarlet robe upon him. (Mk 15:16-17, Mt 27:28)Hail Mary
2. And plaiting a crown of thorns / they put it on his head, / and put a reed in his right hand. (Mt 27:29)Hail Mary
3. And kneeling before him they mocked him, saying, / “Hail, king of the Jews!” (Mt 27:29)Hail Mary
4. And they spat upon him / and took the reed and struck him on the head. (Mt 27:30)Hail Mary
5. [Then Pilate] took water / and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, / “I am innocent of this righteous man’s blood; / see to it yourselves.” (Mt 27:24)Hail Mary
6. So Jesus came out, / wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe. (Jn 19:5)Hail Mary
7. [Pilate] said to the Jews, / “Here is your King!” / They cried out, / “Away with him, away with him, / Crucify him!” (Jn 19:15)Hail Mary
8. And Pilate said to them, / “Why, what evil has he done?” / But they shouted all the more, / “Crucify him.” (Mk15:14)Hail Mary
9. “Shall I crucify your king?” / The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.” (Jn 19:15)Hail Mary
10. So Pilate, wishing to satisfy the crowd,/ released for them Barabbas; / and having scouraged Jesus, / he delivered him to be crucified. (Mk 15:15)Hail Mary

Glory be to the Father ~Exellent posts!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Crimson_Seraph]

Israel did not give birth to the Messiah; quite the contrary, Israel denied the Messiah!

I asked you to read both the passages in Apocalypse and that of John… if you allow Scriptures to speak to you you can see a direct correlation between Jesus’ final act on the Cross concerning His Mother and the Church and Apocaplypse 12 where the Beast makes war on the Woman’s other children; if you cannot see it, there’s nothing I can do for you–other than to pray that one day you can discover it.

Ditto for the Communion of the Saints.

Maran atha!

Angel

Were the first Christians not Israelites? Did not the promise come to Israel? Was not Israel the nation by which the Lord would bless all nations?

Not all of Israel rejected the Messiah obviously, because the first Christians were Jewish. Christianity itself is very Jewish.

I still say that you are taking your traditions that didn’t exist until centuries after Mary died, and then reading it back into the text where it doesn’t belong. If you and I make it into heaven, and God tells me that I was wrong I’ll gladly come up to you and Mary both and apologize. How’s that sound?

 

[jcrichton]

Were the first Christians not Israelites? Did not the promise come to Israel? Was not Israel the nation by which the Lord would bless all nations?

Not all of Israel rejected the Messiah obviously, because the first Christians were Jewish. Christianity itself is very Jewish.

I still say that you are taking your traditions that didn’t exist until centuries after Mary died, and then reading it back into the text where it doesn’t belong. If you and I make it into heaven, and God tells me that I was wrong I’ll gladly come up to you and Mary both and apologize. How’s that sound?

When we read through the Sacred Scriptures we find that Yahweh fortells that Israel will rebel against Him and that He would keep but a Remnant that would not stray from Him… the whole nation of Israel is not that Remnant; so Jesus comes to us not from Israel as the nation but from the Remnant which is faithfully awaiting the Messiah. The Virgin Mary is Jewish and part of that Remnant, as is Joseph, John the Baptist parents, Simeon and Anna–of course I am speaking of those who are clearly noted as awaiting for the Messiah… there were many more and these would be identified through the prophecy proclaimed by Simeon:

34 Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, ‘Look, he is destined for the fall and for the rise of many in Israel, destined to be a sign that is opposed–35 and a sword will pierce your soul too – so that the secret thoughts of many may be laid bare.’ (St. Luke 2:34-35)

…and Jesus’ statement:

24 The Jews gathered round him and said, ‘How much longer are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us openly.’ 25 Jesus replied: I have told you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name are my witness;
26 but you do not believe, because you are no sheep of mine.
27 The sheep that belong to me listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life; they will never be lost and no one will ever steal them from my hand. 29 The Father, for what he has given me, is greater than anyone, and no one can steal anything from the Father’s hand. 30 The Father and I are one. (St. John 10:24-30)

Perhaps we are both at fault, you in your effort to remove the Virgin Mary from Apocalypse 12 and I in an effort to demonstrate that Israel is not found in Apocalypse 12 as the barer of the Messiah.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Were the first Christians not Israelites? Did not the promise come to Israel? Was not Israel the nation by which the Lord would bless all nations?

Not all of Israel rejected the Messiah obviously, because the first Christians were Jewish. Christianity itself is very Jewish.

…don’t get me wrong, I understand and am supportive of my Jewish root:

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know; for salvation comes from the Jews (St. John 4:22)

…to deny Jesus’ origin is to deny Jesus; but I also look further than that particular passage (not much further is really necessary):

23 But the hour is coming – indeed is already here – when true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth: that is the kind of worshipper the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship must worship in spirit and truth. (St. John 4:23-24)

…and I discover the fullness of the prophecies relating to the Messiah: He must be rejected by Israel in order for the Gentiles to enter into the Kingdom! (Compare with Romans 9:1 through 11:32.)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Crimson_Seraph]

I’m not saying that Mary can’t be in there, I’m simply saying that you’re reading Catholic doctrine that wasn’t believed or defined until centuries after it was written back into the text. Paul and Peter don’t even mention Mary in any of their writings, well outside of Paul saying that Christ was born of a woman. One would think that if the veneration of the Virgin Mary was so essential to the Christian religion that she’d at least get a a couple of mentions in the Scripture.

And you’de at least think that Saint Paul would have mentioned a prayer to Saint Stephen or something perhaps…

My point is this, if it’s something that is absolutely needed to get to heaven it should be in Scripture. If it’s not than the Bible is not perfect for a believer.

 

[Bastoune]

Israel gave birth to the Messiah, and indeed the sun and moon and twelve stars echos the dream that Joseph had concerning his family.

And the passage in John says nothing about Mary being my mother. What it does say is that Jesus told John to look after her as if she was his mother. To take John and say he’s the entire Church is stretching it beyond the context and indeed is reading something into the passage.

And those passages that supposedly justified praying to saints in heaven…sorry still don’t see it.

I think it’s because you have never been exposed to proper Biblical exegesis:

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705chap.asp

And can you tell me a reason that one shouldn’t ask for the assistance of a saint in Heaven? One who is even closer to God than a Christian on Earth?

“… I kneel before the Father, from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being…” (Eph. 3:14-16)

The Holy Spirit still connects us and makes us one, regardless of whether we’re in Heaven or on Earth. It is through the Holy Spirit that our prayers are made known to the Father and even the Saints. Having experienced this first-hand on Earth, it’s an incredible thing. What I mean is, while this is a private revelation thing, while I was a friar, I had asked my friends to simply lift their prayer requests to the Holy Spirit who would make me aware of them – and that’s exactly what happened. I could hear their prayer requests and would simply offer the prayers up to the Lord from there.

People don’t “pray to saints” instead of praying to God. Do you ask a friend to pray for you then you don’t do anything? You don’t pray too? Use some common sense.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p5.htm

I suspect you don’t care to know the truth because “you just don’t see it” – well that’s certainly infallible judgment!!!

 

[Bastoune]

My point is this, if it’s something that is absolutely needed to get to heaven it should be in Scripture. If it’s not than the Bible is not perfect for a believer.

WHERE IN THE WORLD did you get the idea that asking saints in Heaven to pray for you was necessary for salvation!?!?!

Newsflash: The Catholic Church doesn’t teach that. You don’t need anyone to pray for you to be saved, but it’s not a bad idea to get as much help as you can get in the prayer department. Why? I dunno. But the Sacred Scripture says so!

The Bible is perfect as it is… as the Catholic Church canonized it! It’s use is to edify and educate us. But ultimately it’s coming to Jesus, not the Bible (cf. John 5:39-40) that is our salvation!

 

[CWBetts]

Protestants who think that we worship Mary and the Saints are at best misinformed. Unfortunately on this thread, instead of “Thank you for setting us straight on what you Catholics really believe” we get “No! You do worship Mary!” as if they know our faith better than we do! So, one more time:
WE DO NOT PRACTICE IDOLATRY!
We do not worship Mary.
We do not worship the Saints.
We worship the Triune God.

 

[Doc2be]

I’m not saying that Mary can’t be in there, I’m simply saying that you’re reading Catholic doctrine that wasn’t believed or defined until centuries after it was written back into the text. Paul and Peter don’t even mention Mary in any of their writings, well outside of Paul saying that Christ was born of a woman. One would think that if the veneration of the Virgin Mary was so essential to the Christian religion that she’d at least get a a couple of mentions in the Scripture.

And you’de at least think that Saint Paul would have mentioned a prayer to Saint Stephen or something perhaps…

My point is this, if it’s something that is absolutely needed to get to heaven it should be in Scripture. If it’s not than the Bible is not perfect for a believer.

Mary does get a couple mentions in the scripture and many people have pointed them out. Read any of the nativity stories. Read just after Christ dies in the John’s Gospel. Read about the Wedding at Cana (why did Jesus perform that miracle, at who’s request?) Read the whole New Testament and not just Paul and Peter and the epistles. Read the Magnificat or Canticle of Mary…Luke 1:46-55.

46 And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, 48 for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; 49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is on those who fear him from generation to generation. 51 He has shown strength with his arm, he has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts, 52 he has put down the mighty from their thrones, and exalted those of low degree; 53 he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent empty away. 54 He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy, 55 as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his posterity for ever.” 56 And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her home.

Tell me if you can find more humility in any other Biblical person. Mary is mentioned enough in the Bible so that the faithful can recognize her as the Mother of God and “call her Blessed.” Yet, because of her perfect humility God did not show her off as a trophy or as some sort of perfect catch. Mary, in her perfect humility, did not want to detract from Jesus’ ministry. Paul and Peter wrote about Jesus and only Jesus because He is the foundation for the Church. God has given us the means to understand and know the perfected nature of man, in the person of Mary. She was and is a creature of God, she is not God. Yet, she never knew sin. If you don’t believe this then many parts of the Bible are contradictory.

God says that nothing stained or defiled can enter His presence, so if Mary had the stain of sin on her soul at all then He would not have been able to enter into her womb and beget the second person on the holy trinity, Jesus. I am not putting this limit on God, God said so himself.

Mary is referred to as the Spouse of the Holy Spirit because that is what she is. The Holy Spirit overshadowed her and through this act, which she freely participated in, God became Man in her womb. If the Holy Spirit and Mary were not as spouses then the pregnancy that followed would be extra-marital, so to speak, and against God’s own commandment. God does not contradict himself and neither should we. I am not saying that Mary and the Holy Spirit got married in a special ceremony, but it is common sense/understood if you understand God’s commandments and what the Incarnation truly was.

Jesus being fully God and Human could not have grown and survived in an environment that was stained by sin. Therefore Mary had to be free from sin and “full of Grace” as the angel Gabriel proclaimed. No other human creature has attained such a perfect degree of Grace.

She is the faithful’s Mother because she is the Mother of Christ. Christ is the head and the faithful make up the body of Christ. To say that she is not your Mother is the same as saying that you are not part of the Mystical Body of Christ. You can not be one and other at the same time for that is against nature and against God. To say that you are a part of Christ’s Body and that you do not share the same mother is to say that you are some sort of super-human or sub-human. Read 1 Cor 13:12-31 if you do not believe that we are all part of one Body of Christ with Him as our Head through the grace of baptism. You can not be a part of Christ’s mystical body and yet refuse His mother.

Mary is the mediator between us and her son Jesus. We did not choose this, God chose this relationship. God chose this when He chose to bring about man’s salvation through her. God could have appeared on Earth in the form of a Man and worked wonderful miracles for all to see, but He chose instead to be born of a humble virgin, in a stable, with no money and no pomp. Jesus, the Son of God, then choose to prepare for his ministry in the presence of His mother. God chose to act through Mary to bring about our salvation so who are we to reject Mary as that source of Salvation. We pray to Mary and venerate her highly because God did it before us. We are just following the example of Jesus Christ and His Father! This is why the Hail Mary will always be on my lips and Mary will always be in my heart. I am not above God and would never even deem to think I could stand before God for how worthless I am. Yet, God chose to work through Mary and I will try to do the same.

Continued…

 

[Doc2be]

Continued…

Plus, any praise and worship that is given to Mary is completely reflected/transmitted to Christ her son and God our Father. She was perfectly humble to the point that she desired nothing but for God’s will to be done in her life! (Luke 1:38, “Behold, I am the Handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.”) In truth and essence when we praise Mary we praise Jesus her Son and God the Father. Yet, Mary was and is more perfect than you or I will ever be. So, we ask her to pray for us because she is closer to God and knows Him more intimately than any other human ever will. This is all Biblical if you but open your eyes and heart to the workings of the Spirit.

Where do you think Jesus was for the 30 years before His ministry began? I like to think that he was with His Father (God) and mother (Mary). You will ask for sources but all I can give is the source of faith and trust in God.

If you would like a good book that explains Mary and the place that God gave to her I would suggest “True Devotion to Mary” by St. Louis Maire de Montfort. He explains all that I just did but in better prose, and in much more length.

One final statement. Mary would only be required for salvation because God deemed her to be so. God chose to become Man through her; He brought about our Salvation through her; why should we reject what God has done by rejecting Mary’s role in our Salvation?

God Bless.

 

[jcrichton]

I’m not saying that Mary can’t be in there, I’m simply saying that you’re reading Catholic doctrine that wasn’t believed or defined until centuries after it was written back into the text. Paul and Peter don’t even mention Mary in any of their writings, well outside of Paul saying that Christ was born of a woman. One would think that if the veneration of the Virgin Mary was so essential to the Christian religion that she’d at least get a a couple of mentions in the Scripture.

And you’de at least think that Saint Paul would have mentioned a prayer to Saint Stephen or something perhaps…

My point is this, if it’s something that is absolutely needed to get to heaven it should be in Scripture. If it’s not than the Bible is not perfect for a believer.

…you sound very “sola Scriptura…” as with all matters of Faith, I can only point you to them, I cannot make you Believe…

…you speak loosely of Catholic Doctrine, yet Catholic Doctrine is what fought the great heresies (some of which seem to be resurging) which deny Christ’s Divinity, the Holy Trinity, and other matters of Faith.

To suggest that more should be written on any particular issue or the Bible is somehow incomplete is to misunderstand the reason of the existence of the Sacred Writings; from Scriptures we can note that there existed, from the beginning, both the Sacred Writings and the Sacred Oral Traditions… the Gospels and the Epistles were recorded not as chronicles of Jesus’ and the Apostles’ Ministries but as means to propagate and explain the Faith:

ie: You will not find a single verse where Jesus calls His disciples apostles… yet, Tradition (explicit in Scriptures) demonstrate that the writers of the Gospels and Epistles understood that Jesus did name His disciples apostles (St. Matthew 10:2; 3:14; 6:30; St. Luke 6:13; 9:10; 11:49; 17:5; 22:14; 24:10; Acts 1:2; 26; 2:37, 42, 43; 4:25, 33, 35…): St. Paul, though not part of the original twelve or the Pentacostal twelve, includes himself as the least of Jesus’ Apostles: 1 Corinthians 15:9.

Again, the Bible is not an unabridged dictionary, listing all the possible definitions and including all the possible diagrams and pictures of known facts and geography (understand that even the most unabridged dictionary must be updated with the nuances in both usage and new vocabulary); that which you seem to find lacking in Scriptures have been provided for by Christ Jesus as He promised that He would send, from the Father, the other Paraclete: the Holy Spirit!

It is the Holy Spirit that makes the various revelations which are passed to the next generations of Chrsitians through both the Sacred Writings and the Oral Traditions.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jJohn_Michael]

If I am to truly imitate Christ, then I must honor and love His mother as He did. If I dishonor His mother, then I dishonor Christ Himself.

Mary played an enormous role in the life of our Savior. She raised Him, nourished Him, loved Him and knew him like no other person on earth. He remained in submission to her for the majority of His life, honoring her as His mother and fulfilling the commandment of God.

Nowhere in the bible do we find an archangel greeting a human with such a reverential greeting (Hail Mary, full of grace, Jehovah is with thee.) as in the angelic salutation.

Mary carried the Christ child within her womb for nine months. No human can possibly know what incredible graces were imparted to Mary as a result of such an intimate and exalted relationship with the Son of God. She was preordained before her birth by God to be the Mother of Christ. Unless, of course you believe that an event of such magnitude as the birth of the Messiah would not take into account His mother. Filled with Gods grace, espoused by the Holy Spirit and Mother of Christ.

When we, as Catholics, meditate on the life of Christ through the Rosary, we see Him through her eyes, eyes that loved, adored, honored and worshiped him in a way that no other human being ever has. No heart has experienced such joy as hers when she held Him in her arms for the first time. No heart was as torn as hers was torn as she watched her own son suffer through His passion. No heart was as elated as hers when he rose from the dead on that first Easter morn.

I do not understand how those who claim to love Christ can treat His mother like some salmon than swam upstream to spawn and then went off somewhere to die.

John

 

[jean8]

why is the love given to Mary from her catholic children, seen as idolatry…?

aldolfo,
I think using the word ‘idolatry’ is a little harsh.
we are told in the Bible to direct our prayers to God. and ask in the name of Jesus Christ.
That doesn’t mean we can’t honor Mary. Lu.1;48-49 reads, “All generations will call me blessed. For the Mighty One has done great things for me–Holy is his name.”
Most Protestant churches do ingnore Mary. They do make mention of her at Christmas.
But then, who is perfect, not me, are you?

God bless,
jean8

 

[jcrichton]

I do not understand how those who claim to love Christ can treat His mother like some salmon than swam upstream to spawn and then went off somewhere to die.

John

Hi, John!

I think that it is part of a vicious circle: the more efforts we spend on venerating the Virgin Mary the more distance they want to put between themselves and her…

Maran atha!

Angel