Loving Mary...

[2ndGen]

**2ndGen,

**Please stop talking in circles and answer these questions straight:

What is a Protestant?

Answered that already.

How can you prove one group does or doesn’t love someone more than the other without being all knowing?

 

[2ndGen]

Speak for yourselves:

Protestants…do you love Mary more than Musims?

Muslims…do you love Mary more than Protestants?

 

[2ndGen]

Syele;3214768:

I love Mary very much.

Enough to venerate her as Islam does?

Muslims don’t even think she is the Mother of God.

Guess what…neither do most Protestants.
Plus, the debate isn’t what they believe about Jesus,
but what they feel about Mary. Let’s keep it “on-topic” please.

I am Protestant. I know she is the mother of Jesus who is fully man and fully God. Maybe a few Muslims love her more than I do, I can doubt it since they don’t even know she is the mother of God, But how can I know they all love her more than me and people like me?

Easy, see the videos I posted by them. Let them tell you how they feel about her. These where Imams and Islamic teachers that were expressing their love for her and in a way that Protestants never have.

Only God knows this.

Amen! He does now that Muslims love Mary more than Protestants.

Not you or I or anyone else.

Speak for yourself. I grew up around Protestants (having 5 pastors in my family) and have spent the last 20 years knowing Muslims and I’ve traveled across the US from coast to coast. My experiences are not limited to a 20 mile radius and consistantly, I’ve seen Muslims light up when I tell them that I’m Catholic and immediately, they bring up Mary and speak about her with so much love and with reverence.

This is why there are no books and websites proclaiming, “PROTESTANTS LOVE MARY MORE THAN MUSLIMS” We aren’t so presumptuous as to say we know the hearts of all the Muslims. We do not claim to be God.

Really?

robertaconnor.blogspot.com/2006/11/mary-and-muslims-fulton-j-sheen.html

muslimslovejesus.org/mary.asp

thekeytoislam.com/en/muslims-love-jesus.shtml

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jondel/Virgin_Mary_in_Islam

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996016088

dailymotion.com/video/x2840i_i-love-jesus-maryam-a-muslim-girl_events

abbey-roads.blogspot.com/2006/07/islam-and-blessed-virgin-mary.html

interfaithmarianpilgrimages.com/

It’s obvious. The obvious isn’t debated over. The world knows that Muslims love Mary more than Protestants do.

They’ve told me personally how disgusted they are with Protestant attacks on Mary by completer churches as a united group of Christians. They cannot understand how they can have so much hatred and animosity towards her and why they spend so much time putting up websites devoted to one thing…belittleing her and impuning her reputation.

You must not be familiar with the definition of “protestant” vs “Protestant”.

R.I.F. my brother…Reading Is Fundamental!



Luther himself was against what The Protestants did! He was against schism or breaking away from The Church…He was a Reformer (one of the things I’ve learned since coming here by my protestant brethren).

But again, you are reverting to your M.O. of debating who’s a protestant. That’s not the topic here.

Let’s get back to Protestants “not” loving Mary as much as Muslims and Catholics do.

Of the 3 major monotheistic religions (God of Abraham believers):

600 million are protestants
14 million are Jews​

614 million who “dont’” believe in Mary as Sinless, Immaculately Conceived, Perpetually a Virgin and as worthy of Reverance and Praise.

1.3 Billion Catholics
1.2 Billion Muslims​

2.5 Billion monotheists who believe in Mary as Sinless, Immaculately Conceived, Perpetually a Virgin and as worthy of Reverance and Praise.

I’d say that roughly off the top of my head, out of the monotheist religions, less than 6% “don’t” revere Mary.

If we were to just go by Christianity alone, then that number would be less than 25%.

Like I said…a “minority”.

 

[2ndGen]

Syele;3214768:

Post #177 Corrected:

I love Mary very much.

Enough to venerate her as Islam does?

Muslims don’t even think she is the Mother of God.

Guess what…neither do most Protestants.
Plus, the debate isn’t what they believe about Jesus,
but what they feel about Mary. Let’s keep it “on-topic” please.

I am Protestant. I know she is the mother of Jesus who is fully man and fully God. Maybe a few Muslims love her more than I do, I can doubt it since they don’t even know she is the mother of God, But how can I know they all love her more than me and people like me?

Easy, see the videos I posted by them. Let them tell you how they feel about her. These where Imams and Islamic teachers that were expressing their love for her and in a way that Protestants never have.

Only God knows this.

Amen! He does now that Muslims love Mary more than Protestants.

Not you or I or anyone else.

Speak for yourself. I grew up around Protestants (having 5 pastors in my family) and have spent the last 20 years knowing Muslims and I’ve traveled across the US from coast to coast. My experiences are not limited to a 20 mile radius and consistantly, I’ve seen Muslims light up when I tell them that I’m Catholic and immediately, they bring up Mary and speak about her with so much love and with reverence.

This is why there are no books and websites proclaiming, “PROTESTANTS LOVE MARY MORE THAN MUSLIMS” We aren’t so presumptuous as to say we know the hearts of all the Muslims. We do not claim to be God.

Really?

robertaconnor.blogspot.com/2006/11/mary-and-muslims-fulton-j-sheen.html

muslimslovejesus.org/mary.asp

thekeytoislam.com/en/muslims-love-jesus.shtml

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jondel/Virgin_Mary_in_Islam

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996016088

dailymotion.com/video/x2840i_i-love-jesus-maryam-a-muslim-girl_events

abbey-roads.blogspot.com/2006/07/islam-and-blessed-virgin-mary.html

interfaithmarianpilgrimages.com/

It’s obvious. The obvious isn’t debated over. The world knows that Muslims love Mary more than Protestants do.

They’ve told me personally how disgusted they are with Protestant attacks on Mary by completer churches as a united group of Christians. They cannot understand how they can have so much hatred and animosity towards her and why they spend so much time putting up websites devoted to one thing…belittleing her and impuning her reputation.

But again, you are reverting to your M.O. of debating who’s a protestant. That’s not the topic here.

Let’s get back to Protestants “not” loving Mary as much as Muslims and Catholics do.

Prove it.

Of the 3 major monotheistic religions (God of Abraham believers):

600 million are protestants
14 million are Jews​

614 million who “dont’” believe in Mary as Sinless, Immaculately Conceived, Perpetually a Virgin and as worthy of Reverance and Praise.

1.3 Billion Catholics
1.2 Billion Muslims​

2.5 Billion monotheists who believe in Mary as Sinless, Immaculately Conceived, Perpetually a Virgin and as worthy of Reverance and Praise.

I’d say that roughly off the top of my head, out of the monotheist religions, less than 6% “don’t” revere Mary.

If we were to just go by Christianity alone, then that number would be less than 25%.

Like I said…a “minority”.

 

[manjiga]

This is my first post and since english is not my mother tongue, please forgive me my spelling mistakes.I 've been reading these posts about Mary and I agree with rpp post and I can say that it is not leading anywhere. What I think is that Mary, our Holy Mother, would defend herself differently, if at all. Just one more thing: actions and deeds speak more loudly than words ( thinking of blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta and many other saints).
God bless.

 

[avonlise]

off topic, but what is “5 solas”???

 

[avonlise]

forget that last post, just found it
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_solas
i’ve learnt something NEW today!

 

[lak611]

[Who reveres Mary more in the traditional Christian sense([COLOR=“red”]believes in her Perpetual Virginity, Immaculate Conception, teach this as a Doctrine of their faith, see her as “not” a just a “mere” woman, but as the highest creation of God, etc )…

your church (you don’t have to speak up for all Protestants since you guys can’t even agree amongst yourselves what’s what), or Islam?

And…who loved her first and longer?

Simple question.What difference does it make if Muslims love Mary when they do not consider her Son to be God?

 

[2ndGen]

What difference does it make if Muslims love Mary when they do not consider her Son to be God?

Off topic.

Start a thread and I’ll meet you there.

The topic here is the love Muslims show for Mary, The Mother of Jesus Christ and the lack of love shown by Protestants as a religious doctrine of theirs to “not” love stating that she’s dead.

(Of course, not every single last Protestant, but the overwhelming majority of them).

 

[lak611]

Off topic.

Start a thread and I’ll meet you there.

You never joined my thread about who is considered to be a Protestant, so I will not start another one at this time.

 

[2ndGen]

You never joined my thread about who is considered to be a Protestant, so I will not start another one at this time.

I don’t remember seeing it.

But, back to Protestant teachings on Mary…

Why don’t you love Mary more than a non-Christian and more than most Christians?

I’m sure there have to be reasons.

We love her greatly because she was Jesus Christ’s mother and because she was the highest creation of God.

 

[2ndGen]

I just realized something…The only ones I’m debating with on “who” loves Mary more is with Christians.

Muslims have all agreed.

The proof is in the text!

It speaks for itself.

In their zeal to answer without answering,
it’s the Christians who’ve attempted to sidetrack the exchange by pointing out what Muslims believe and/or don’t believe regarding other subject Christian beliefs…

…while the Muslims have come here and very graciously and very charitably stated their beliefs and their adminrable love of The Blessed Virgin Mary.

They beat The Christians here (author included) on Christ-like behavior.

Funny, but they are the ones who have shown a great example of what a Christian is “supposed” to be like (including myself).

I’ve learned from a Muslim what Jesus taught us by their actions.

The Christ lovers can’t even say that they love Mary “more” than a those who follow Mohammed.



It reminds me of how Jesus used a Samaritan to show His own followers how the supposedly self-righteous Jews could learn a thing or two from those “ouside” of their faith:

Luke 10:25-37
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and made trial of him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 And he said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, desiring to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbor?

30 Jesus made answer and said, A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho; and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance a certain priest was going down that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And in like manner a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion,

34 and came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on them oil and wine; and he set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow he took out two shillings, and gave them to the host, and said, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, I, when I come back again, will repay thee.

36 Which of these three, thinkest thou, proved neighbor unto him that fell among the robbers?

37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. And Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Mind you, The Samaritans were indocrtinated to hate Jews and The Jews were indoctrinated to hate The Samaritans (much like fundamentalist Christians do with Muslims and fundamentalist Muslims do with Christians in general).

To all you Christians who attempt to exhalt yourselves above Muslims, learn from Christ…it’s not the religion or your belief in Him that proves your status as a follower of Jesus Christ, but it’s how you love your fellow man…even those you “think” are your enemies or those who’ve proven to be your enemies.

As usual, when in doubt, follow Jesus to The Truth.

 

[Lev23]

What difference does it make if Muslims love Mary when they do not consider her Son to be God?

Exactly, and 2ndGen knows this point has everything to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Singinbeauty]

My family? Hey, when my brothers or sister spit on my mother, they cease in becomming my brethren. And those who love my mother, I love…just like I love those who deny Jesus’ divinity just like I love those who deny Mary’s Immaculate Conception and Perpetual Virginity just as I love those who praise Mary as blessed among women.

Who has spit on her?! What constitutes as ‘spitting’ on her?

Even the Catholic Church views protestants as separated bretheren. Who are you to judge and say they aren’t?

Insults are off topic.

If you cannot bring yourself to say that you love Mary more than Muslims, then just say it and stick to the topic. Otherwise, save the drama.

I am not trying to insult you when I say that you are ignorant. I am just stating a fact. You twist your own words to explain away a fact that you can neither prove nor justify. You don’t know protestant’s hearts, minds, nor devotion to the Almighty. Some feel it is wrong to take any reverence from God and put it on one of His creation.

Not and example of love, of “reverance”.

Then why did you even bring it up when the topic was about who loves Mary more?

Either quote me or stop slandering me. I never said that they weren’t protestant churches, but that they were catholic churches.

Also, the baptist church you listed? They practice more Catholic traditions than Protestant doctrinal teachings. They are more Catholic than Protestant.

I already did… But I will do it again since you have seemed to have missed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGen:

Show & prove: Where did I state that they weren’t protestants?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syele:

There are thousands Anglican and Episcopalian Churches named for Mary, A simple Google search would have told you that. (these ONLY cover the exact names in the quotes, skipping ones called something else that have her name in them)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGen:

You’ve got to be kidding me right? Anglicans and Episcopalians are catholic churches (small c). Not only that, Anglicans have a letter of agreement on Marian veneration.

Here’s another of your posts that contradict what you JUST said:
"2ndGen:

I eliminated the others for their “catholic” church common union (Episcopalian, Lutheran, etc…).

Waiting for response on Saint Mary’s Baptist church being considered “Protestant” since they pray to saints and use a Catholic Bible.

And as far as the Saint Mary’s Pentecostal Church goes…it’s a Catholic Church (Pentecosalism isn’t a church, but a movement such as Methodism or Charimaticism)

In these quotes above you state these churches that name their place of worship for Mary aren’t protestant but catholic. In this THREAD, it looks like a whole lot of your catholic brothers and sisters disagree with you… In fact, the definition you used disagrees with you:

2ndGen:

1.** any **Western Christian who is not an adherent of a Catholic, Anglican, or Eastern Church.
2. an adherent of any of those Christian bodies that separated from the Church of Rome during the Reformation, or of any group descended from them.

Where there did I say that they weren’t Protestants?

I dont’ get it?

I dont’ see it.

I never stated that they weren’t Protestants.

Syele never quoted me as saying that they “weren’t” Protestants.

She and I both did… you just don’t want to admit you are incorrect.

And the only one of us two that was proven wrong here was you when I corrected you on your poorly presented evidence of two churches named after congregation members.

And I admitted I was incorrect. Something you seem to have a hard time doing…

So again, as I did the first time, I correct you…and use your own log against you…“Kind of hard when someone shows you where you were wrong, isn’t it?”

But hey, let’s not take my word for it…let’s have a poll:

How many people here see me saying that Episcos and Luther’s and Anglicans “weren’t” Protestants?

You have already been proven incorrect. Open your eyes man…

Continued…

 

[Singinbeauty]

Continued from above…

In the meantime, how about spending more time building up the relationship between catholics and protestants than tearing it down. You might learn something.

The father didn’t run out to the swine corral to bring back the prodigal son. He had to come back on his own.

What does this have to do with what I said???

And who wants to have a relationship with a person who hurls personal insults anyway?

Show me where I have personally thrown an insult at you?

By the way…answer this question:

Who reveres Mary more in the traditional Christian sense(believes in her Perpetual Virginity, Immaculate Conception, teach this as a Doctrine of their faith, see her as “not” a just a “mere” woman, but as the highest creation of God, etc )…your church (you don’t have to speak up for all Protestants since you guys can’t even agree amongst yourselves what’s what), or Islam?

What takes more reverence, to believe a woman was given a free pass by God to bring Him to this world or to believe that God used a mere woman like the rest of us, broken yet showed strength to stand up to her world and follow God no matter what happened? It’s easy to believe that God made a special creature to keep her hidden from sin and that she had it easy to say YES. My belief is that it is BECAUSE she was like me, with human emotions and fear that she is a GREATER woman than most because in spite of her faults and nature she chose GOD.

And…who loved her first and longer?

Simple question.

God.

Simple answer.

 

[Singinbeauty]

The Christ lovers can’t even say that they love Mary “more” than a those who follow Mohammed.

Maybe because a lot of us know we don’t know the heart of anyone but ourselves. I never say that I love God more than anyone else because how do you measure love?

Claiming you love God, Mary, or the earth more than someone else is just a prideful “Look at me” ploy. I don’t have to say that I love Mary more because in the end it isn’t who loves God more, it is “Did you love Him at ALL?”.

 

[Lev23]

I just realized something…The only ones I’m debating with on “who” loves Mary more is with Christians.

Muslims have all agreed.

The proof is in the text!

It speaks for itself.

In their zeal to answer without answering,
it’s the Christians who’ve attempted to sidetrack the exchange by pointing out what Muslims believe and/or don’t believe regarding other subject Christian beliefs…

…while the Muslims have come here and very graciously and very charitably stated their beliefs and their adminrable love of The Blessed Virgin Mary.

They beat The Christians here (author included) on Christ-like behavior.

Funny, but they are the ones who have shown a great example of what a Christian is “supposed” to be like (including myself).

I’ve learned from a Muslim what Jesus taught us by their actions.

The Christ lovers can’t even say that they love Mary “more” than a those who follow Mohammed.



It reminds me of how Jesus used a Samaritan to show His own followers how the supposedly self-righteous Jews could learn a thing or two from those “ouside” of their faith:

Luke 10:25-37
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and made trial of him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 And he said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, desiring to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbor?

30 Jesus made answer and said, A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho; and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance a certain priest was going down that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And in like manner a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion,

34 and came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on them oil and wine; and he set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow he took out two shillings, and gave them to the host, and said, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, I, when I come back again, will repay thee.

36 Which of these three, thinkest thou, proved neighbor unto him that fell among the robbers?

37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. And Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Mind you, The Samaritans were indocrtinated to hate Jews and The Jews were indoctrinated to hate The Samaritans (much like fundamentalist Christians do with Muslims and fundamentalist Muslims do with Christians in general).

To all you Christians who attempt to exhalt yourselves above Muslims, learn from Christ…it’s not the religion or your belief in Him that proves your status as a follower of Jesus Christ, but it’s how you love your fellow man…even those you “think” are your enemies or those who’ve proven to be your enemies.

As usual, when in doubt, follow Jesus to The Truth.

I’m sorry, but on this issue you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You are telling us to love our fellow man who we percieve to be enemies and to follow Jesus to the Truth.

Well the last time I checked, wait, let me check again…hold on…almost there…yup, I don’t have any enemies. Yes there are those that don’t believe in Christ, but enemies, no way. In fact, to exalt yourself over another is not the Gospel of Christ.

So did Jesus or the Apostles ever “love” someone by keeping them in delusion, confusion, and contradictions, or did they love them by giving them the truth? I don’t consider it “exalting” one’s self over another by pointing out to them the truth of the matter. This is how you bring non-believers to God’s mercy. To keep them following a false God is like leaving them to die on the side of the road.

 

[2ndGen]

What difference does it make if Muslims love Mary when they do not consider her Son to be God?

 

[2ndGen]

Who has spit on her?! What constitutes as ‘spitting’ on her?

 

[Singinbeauty]

Non-Catholic Christians stating that she was just as h*#ny as any woman and that she got it on with Joseph. (It turned my stomach just insinuating what they said) That she was not special. That she was not Immaculately Conceived. That she was not chosen by God for any special reason that it was just the luck of the draw and that He would’ve just chosen another woman if she wouldve said know (completely undoing OT Prophecy).

How COMPLETELY unnecessary was that first sentance?!

I don’t know of any protestant who says she wasn’t special. Read what I said at the end of my ‘part II’ answer to you. Does that sound like I say she wasn’t special?

To show how great Muslims are when it comes to loving Mary and how lacking Protestants are when it comes to loving Mary.

The REAL question is about who loves God, not one of His creation.