Lucifer

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carlysrose said:
The Masons believe that it is Venus too.

I disagree with this assertion.

Jesus calls himself the Morning Star. Is the Sun not a star? Is Jesus not replacing the sun-god? Is Jesus not the Son (Sun) of God?
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Feel free to disagree, but that’s not really relevant, nor is it relevant what the Masons believe.

The ancients did not know that the Sun was a star; to them, it was the sun, and then there was the moon, and the stars, some of which moved in a wandering fashion (Greek planasthai → English planet). When Venus rose in the morning prior to sunrise, it was called the Morning Star.
 
carlysrose said:
What is the history of “Lucifer”.

Apparently only the King James Bible uses the word “Lucifer”, as written in Isaiah 14.12, to describe the fall of the bright morning star - and this was over 1600 years past Jesus’ Resurrection.

If the KJB really is the first and even the only (generally accepted) Bible to name this “morning star”, then where on earth did the English get it from?

Any ideas?
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That passage is a common misconception. It is not about the fall of the devil but about the fate of an oppressive Babylonian King whose name more appropriately translates to Daystar. If Lucifer was the name of the devil then Jesus would be the devil since in Revelation he says, I am the bright Lucifer.

The story of Lucifer connects with the story of greek mythology about the angel Lucifer, who stole the flame of enlightenment, against Zeus’ authority, to give unto mankind. The parallel runs with the story of Eve and the snake in the garden who gives her “the enlightenment” of the forbidden knowledge.

Lucifer is also related to the planet Venus who is the goddess of Love among other things. The morning star is the brightest star in the morning sky (Venus) hence the name morning star.
 
Alberti_Devoveo said:
Isaiah 14:12 (Latin Vulgate) “quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes”

St Jerome beat the KJV by about 1200 years. Lucifer, as defined by St Jerome, actually comes from the Hebrew helel, which means “morning star.” While it is not an uncommon reference to the devil’s fall, only the KJV retains the Latin word, while the other Bibles use the translated meaning of the Latin word lucifer.
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Lucifer comes from the latin luce ferre. He was an angel in greek mythology. Lucifer is not a proper name for the devil. It has become tradition to call the devil Lucifer because of the mistranslation of Daystar, the Babylonian King;s name. Lucifer is a name to be revered. Jesus calls his name Lucifer in Revelation where he says I am the bright Lucifer. You could say morning star but Lucifer is the same meaning as morning star.
 
carlysrose said:
Venus doesn’t rise in the morning. It is visible the moment it becomes dark.
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It is visible in the morning hours. What’s after midnight? Morning. It is called the morning star because it is visible through dawn.
 
ChibiViolet said:
Months ago, I went to hear a talk given by exorcist Fr. Vince Lampert and he said that another exorcist he knew had been exorcising a woman for years, but the demon remained. Finally, he (the other exorcist) asked the demon “Are you Lucifer?” There was a long pause before the demon said something like: “I used to be called by that name, but no longer.” Soon after that, the demon departed.
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Ain’t no demon ever called by the name Lucifer. Lucifer is a name of Jesus.
 
DaveBj said:
Originally it would have been a “pretty” name, “Light-Bearer.” It was an epithet for the planet Venus, because when Venus is the morning star, seeing it means that sunrise is near. Thus – “Light-Bearer.” The name became “ugly” only because of its association with Satan.
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You’re a fool if you think one who bears light is Satan.
 
Sacred_Heart said:
It is visible in the morning hours. What’s after midnight? Morning.
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I saw it at what, 9 pm?, the other night. Anyway, I just did some Googling, and found that Venus has a Greek god for morning and evening. Phosphorus is the morning one, Hesperus is the evening one.
 
Sacred_Heart said:
The story of Lucifer connects with the story of greek mythology about the angel Lucifer, who stole the flame of enlightenment, against Zeus’ authority, to give unto mankind.
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Are you talking about Prometheus?
 
carlysrose said:
So how do you reconcile how we have demonized/personified the word “lucifer”?
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There is no reconciliation. A perfectly good word has been turned to filth. It just teaches you a thing about iniquity. Man can corrupt the good and make it into something detestable. He can turn what is clean into something that is unclean. Take homosexuality for instance. There is nothing detestable about it but since Jewish culture abhorred it it became a sin. As a matter of fact it became a command of God against it, however, it was just culture; but how words are worded in a book saying, God is against it, men believe it and detest it. The same is true with the word Lucifer. Lucifer is a mistranslation in the bible with the name that is more appropriately translated Daystar. Men don’t know how to read scriptures the original meaning of that passage applied to the oppressive Babylonian King and not the Devil. Again it is another example of man believing that he hears from God, God speaking it, and it becoming the truth. It is a lie and it can’t become reconciled.
 
Sacred_Heart said:
Take homosexuality for instance. There is nothing detestable about it but since Jewish culture abhorred it it became a sin. As a matter of fact it became a command of God against it, however, it was just culture; but how words are worded in a book saying, God is against it, men believe it and detest it.
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Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357: “Basing itself on sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

I’m utterly baffled by how popular it’s becoming to defend and approve of homosexuality lately. The Church’s condemnation is right. She won’t change. Let this one go.
 
DaveBj said:
Originally it would have been a “pretty” name, “Light-Bearer.” It was an epithet for the planet Venus, because when Venus is the morning star, seeing it means that sunrise is near. Thus – “Light-Bearer.” The name became “ugly” only because of its association with Satan.
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I would have thought it was related to the myth of Prometheus. I’m pretty sure satanical types believe Lucifer brought knowledge to humans despite God’s wishes, in much the same way that the mythical Prometheus did.

Edit, oops, I see someone already said this on page 2
 
Sacred_Heart said:
There is no reconciliation. A perfectly good word has been turned to filth. It just teaches you a thing about iniquity. Man can corrupt the good and make it into something detestable. He can turn what is clean into something that is unclean. Take homosexuality for instance. There is nothing detestable about it but since Jewish culture abhorred it it became a sin. As a matter of fact it became a command of God against it, however, it was just culture; but how words are worded in a book saying, God is against it, men believe it and detest it. The same is true with the word Lucifer. Lucifer is a mistranslation in the bible with the name that is more appropriately translated Daystar. Men don’t know how to read scriptures the original meaning of that passage applied to the oppressive Babylonian King and not the Devil. Again it is another example of man believing that he hears from God, God speaking it, and it becoming the truth. It is a lie and it can’t become reconciled.
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Well, maybe some things don’t need to be reconciled. After all, Jesus said things are purposely kept hidden.
 
carlysrose said:
Venus doesn’t rise in the morning. It is visible the moment it becomes dark.
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That happens to be true right now, but Venus is visible in the morning (when it’s on the other side of the sun) just as much as it is visible in the evening. You need a basic astronomy course.
 
DaveBj said:
That happens to be true right now, but Venus is visible in the morning (when it’s on the other side of the sun) just as much as it is visible in the evening. You need a basic astronomy course.
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Venus is also called the Night Star - “Hesperus”

Please take your attitude and leave my thread upon reading my reply.
 
carlysrose said:
Venus is also called the Night Star - “Hesperus”

Please take your attitude and leave my thread upon reading my reply.
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Sorry, but it’s not “your” thread. You may be the OP, but you made statements that were in error. I am a geek and part of being a geek is correcting scientific error. The only attitude I’ve seen around here is one that will not accept correction. If you won’t accept my word that Venus is the Morning Star in astronomy-speak, then start here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Star
and then look it up in a real encyclopedia.
 
DaveBj said:
Sorry, but it’s not “your” thread. You may be the OP, but you made statements that were in error. I am a geek and part of being a geek is correcting scientific error. The only attitude I’ve seen around here is one that will not accept correction. If you won’t accept my word that Venus is the Morning Star in astronomy-speak, then start here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Star
and then look it up in a real encyclopedia.
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I made no statement in error.

You were very rude and belittling, and I have the right to defend myself 🙂
 
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