Luman Fidei encyclical letter

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I have read the complex 23 page article by Antonella Vannini who features the works of a major Italian mathematician Luigi Fantappie. He lived in the first half or the 20th century.
He applied quantum process theory to brain chaotic dynamics (doesn’t mean insane, chaotic here was related to entropy). Fantappie suggested that the brain might act as a quantum gate.
Past, Present, and Future could co-exist.

The physics behind this is the discovery of anti-particles that go in reverse directions to protons (as an example). The standard sub-atomic particles exist from past to present to future (entropy). But anti-particles travel in reverse time (syntropy).

Other scientists late in the 20th century theorized “…life which is no longer linear but circular…”

This reminded me of the *Four Quartets *by T.S. Eliot who wrote: “Time present and time past
Are both perhaps present in time future, And time future contained in time past.”
(Beginning of “Burnt Norton”, the first part of the Four Quartets).

And elsewhere in Eliot’s poetry is the concept that we end up where we started.

Again, I am not a physicist or theologian, just a surgeon. But the idea of the Eternal Now makes sense to me.

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The First Encyclical by Pope Francis (from the Vatican website)
  1. The sacramental character of faith finds its highest expression in the Eucharist. The Eucharist is a precious nourishment for faith: an encounter with Christ truly present in the supreme act of his love, the life-giving gift of himself. In the Eucharist we find the intersection of faith’s two dimensions. On the one hand, there is the dimension of history: the Eucharist is an act of remembrance, a making present of the mystery in which the past, as an event of death and resurrection, demonstrates its ability to open up a future, to foreshadow ultimate fulfilment. The liturgy reminds us of this by its repetition of the word hodie, the “today” of the mysteries of salvation. On the other hand, we also find the dimension which leads from the visible world to the invisible. In the Eucharist we learn to see the heights and depths of reality. The bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, who becomes present in his passover to the Father: this movement draws us, body and soul, into the movement of all creation towards its fulfilment in God.
48th INTERNATIONAL EUCHARISTIC CONGRESS (from the Vatican website)
FROM 10 TO 17 OCTOBER 2004
“The Eucharist, Light and Life of the New Millennium”

II.“**THE LIGHT SHINES IN THE DARKNESS AND THE DARKNESS HAS NOT OVERCOME IT”(Jn 1:5) **

Lights and shadows in the world today

18 Jesus is the light and life. These words sum up everything worthwhile that he offers us and that embrace the mystery of the Eucharist. Bread and wine are the means necessary for natural life. Analogously, if we do not eat the eucharistic bread we cannot nourish the life received at Baptism. It is a life that goes on developing to fulfilment, because through the Eucharist we grow in the life of virtue and all the gifts of the Spirit are fostered so that they lead us to salvation, thus realising the purpose for which the Eucharist was instituted. As distinct from natural life, the life of grace has no limits. On the horizon of this new millennium there appear questions and hopes, lights and shadows – there is the eternal struggle of the darkness seeking to extinguish the light. The Saviour has already come and his presence in the Eucharist guarantees salvation for us and history.
Lights
19 His Holiness Pope John Paul II frequently asks us to turn our gaze to the lights that make this world loveable, worthy of affection, despite its miserable condition, since the Son of God became flesh in a beautiful world, which his Father had created as good in every one of its tiniest details (cf. Gen 1:10.12.18.21.25). In the New Testament, Luke contrasts the children of light against those of this world; John tells us that God is the fullness of light; Christ as the revelation of the Father is the light that is revealed to all people; however, this world, which is darkness, does not receive the light. As children of the light we are called to give the world meaning, so that the rays of light are clearly evident……
 
As my thread is about the Light of Faith, I will try to make a simple analogy between the quantum physics theory of photons and the reality of the change of substance in the Eucharist.
 
The Transubstantiation in the Eucharist and the Quantum Physics of Light
**THE EUCHARIST
IN ITS RELATIONSHIP TO THE CHURCH **
(excerpts from the encyclical on Holy Thursday 2003 by Blessed John Paul II)
Bolds are mine.
  1. The sacramental re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice, crowned by the resurrection, in the Mass involves a most special presence which – in the words of Paul VI – “is called ‘real’ not as a way of excluding all other types of presence as if they were ‘not real’, but because it is a presence in the fullest sense: a substantial presence whereby Christ, the God-Man, is wholly and entirely present”.22 This sets forth once more the perennially valid teaching of the Council of Trent: “the consecration of the bread and wine effects the change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord, and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. And the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called this change transubstantiation”.23 Truly the Eucharist is a mysterium fidei, a mystery which surpasses our understanding and can only be received in faith, as is often brought out in the catechesis of the Church Fathers regarding this divine sacrament: “Do not see – Saint Cyril of Jerusalem exhorts – in the bread and wine merely natural elements, because the Lord has expressly said that they are his body and his blood: faith assures you of this, though your senses suggest otherwise”.24
    Adoro te devote, latens Deitas, we shall continue to sing with the Angelic Doctor. Before this mystery of love, human reason fully experiences its limitations. One understands how, down the centuries, this truth has stimulated theology to strive to understand it ever more deeply.
    These are praiseworthy efforts, which are all the more helpful and insightful to the extent that they are able to join critical thinking to the “living faith” of the Church, as grasped especially by the Magisterium’s “sure charism of truth” and the “intimate sense of spiritual realities”25 which is attained above all by the saints. There remains the boundary indicated by Paul VI: “Every theological explanation which seeks some understanding of this mystery, in order to be in accord with Catholic faith, must firmly maintain that in objective reality, independently of our mind, the bread and wine have ceased to exist after the consecration, so that the adorable body and blood of the Lord Jesus from that moment on are really before us under the sacramental species of bread and wine”.26_________________________________
From notes in Physics at Boston University website:

**Wave-particle duality ** (of Photons)

*To explain some aspects of light behavior, such as interference and diffraction, you treat it as a wave, and to explain other aspects you treat light as being made up of particles. Light exhibits wave-particle duality, because it exhibits properties of both waves and particles.

Wave-particle duality is not confined to light, however. Everything exhibits wave-particle duality, everything from electrons to baseballs. The behavior of relatively large objects, like baseballs, is dominated by their particle nature; to explain the behavior of very small things like electrons, both the wave properties and particle properties have to be considered.*_________________________________________________

As previously stated on this thread, I am not a physicist or theologian. But surgeons like facts, and that’s what I am trying to present. But including Transubstantiation and Quantum Physics is not saying that one explains the other. I am just looking for a simple analogy.

The spiritual part of the mass might be compared to the wave properties of light photons.
The change in Substance in Holy Communion might be compared to the particles of photons when changed from the wave characteristics.

The analogy is not meant to explain the mystery of change of the communion elements.

My analogy construct is to point out examples of what we accept easily in science and what we accept by the Light of Faith in theology…

**If we accept what is not seen by our eyes in Quantum Physics, how can we not accept Transubstantiation? **

I am not qualified to answer my own question.

View attachment 17918
From photonics.com

I will turn this thread over to the Catholic Forum for discussion.
 
*"The analogy is not meant to explain the mystery of change of the communion elements.

My analogy construct is to point out examples of what we accept easily in science and what we accept by the Light of Faith in theology…

If we accept what is not seen by our eyes in Quantum Physics, how can we not accept Transubstantiation?

I am not qualified to answer my own question."*

I think you analogy is a reasonable one within the context you have chosen as your base. In fact it is quite interesting.

I am not so sure about the phrase ‘we not accept Transubstantiation’- why should we not accept it? - for example I do.

However in order to contribute as it were - that is to avoid saying nothing (especially after the work and typing you have graced this topic with) does the following affect in any way the analogy:-

Transubstantiation is not the Sacrament, but is the Power whereby the Sacramental Reality exists. To put it poorly I admit - but by comparison the power is akin to the switch and the effect is the light.

God Bless
 
Thank you Paduard for “calling the question.”

I realize the vast majority of members of Catholic Forum would readily
accept the dogma of Transubstantiation.

But among Catholics outside of this Forum, I wasn’t sure.
 
Norwich12 said:
Thank you Paduard for “calling the question.”

I realize the vast majority of members of Catholic Forum would readily
accept the dogma of Transubstantiation.

But among Catholics outside of this Forum, I wasn’t sure.
Click to expand...
I guess some have doubts; especially the young. But most I agree would accept, within or outside this forum, Whether they fully understand it is quite another matter though - or indeed what path this conversation is going to progress onto.

Nevertheless you didn’t answer my question i.e. does my analogy affect your analogy [personally I doubt it but look for confirmation].?

God Bless,
Paduard
 
Thank you Paduard for the reassurance about general majority acceptance of the dogma of Transubstantiation…

You are right, I am deliquent about answering your question (readers please see #26 above): As an Anglican, I needed to read up on the dogma to Try to answer your very direct question that is so important.

The question by Paduard: *However in order to contribute as it were - that is to avoid saying nothing (especially after the work and typing you have graced this topic with) does the following affect in any way the analogy:-

Transubstantiation is not the Sacrament, but is the Power whereby the Sacramental Reality exists. To put it poorly I admit - but by comparison the power is akin to the switch and the effect is the light.*

MY ANSWER: Yes, our analogies of the Sacrament of Holy Communion do not conflict.
But my attempt to use quantum physics (I have only elementary knowledge) to explain the mystery of Real Presence is less exact that your briefer and more erudite analogy above. The true effect of the change of substance in the bread and wine to become the body and blood of the Risen Lord is by the power of God Almighty to make present the Light of the World. The transubstantiation is instant like a switch (excellent choice of analogy) and not incremental or evolving — once the words of consecration are spoken by the priest – first the bread, then the wine.

That is the uniqueness and beauty of Catholicism that it is objective and not subjective.
Like a binary switch the change in substance. Not dependent on the personality or intelligence or any human quality of the priest, not enhanced by the music or glorified by the architecture. It is just as effective spiritually whether at St. Peter’s Basilica or mass in a hospital.

Paduard – you have made a brilliant analogy!

View attachment 17935
 
Norwich12 said:
Thank you.
But what about Transubstantiation?
The outward physical appearance of the bread and wine
remains objectively intact; but the substance changes into
Christ’s body and blood.
Click to expand...
The outward appearance is called accidents by Aristotleism. If there is such an “ism”
 
Norwich12 said:
Thank you Paduard for the reassurance about general majority acceptance of the dogma of Transubstantiation…

You are right, I am deliquent about answering your question (readers please see #26 above): As an Anglican, I needed to read up on the dogma to Try to answer your very direct question that is so important.

The question by Paduard: *However in order to contribute as it were - that is to avoid saying nothing (especially after the work and typing you have graced this topic with) does the following affect in any way the analogy:-

Transubstantiation is not the Sacrament, but is the Power whereby the Sacramental Reality exists. To put it poorly I admit - but by comparison the power is akin to the switch and the effect is the light.*

MY ANSWER: Yes, our analogies of the Sacrament of Holy Communion do not conflict.
But my attempt to use quantum physics (I have only elementary knowledge) to explain the mystery of Real Presence is less exact that your briefer and more erudite analogy above. The true effect of the change of substance in the bread and wine to become the body and blood of the Risen Lord is by the power of God Almighty to make present the Light of the World. The transubstantiation is instant like a switch (excellent choice of analogy) and not incremental or evolving — once the words of consecration are spoken by the priest – first the bread, then the wine.

That is the uniqueness and beauty of Catholicism that it is objective and not subjective.
Like a binary switch the change in substance. Not dependent on the personality or intelligence or any human quality of the priest, not enhanced by the music or glorified by the architecture. It is just as effective spiritually whether at St. Peter’s Basilica or mass in a hospital.

Paduard – you have made a brilliant analogy!

View attachment 17935
Click to expand...
Thank you for your kind answer. We are agreed apparently so far.

To continue I would suggest the encyclical, for me at least, contains 2 new pointers - at least new as far as I can discover. First point relates to ‘Light’ and the second to ‘Hope’.

I read the text in relation to ‘Light’ as converging onto the beauty and light of Christ Himself as deposited as it were on the individual according to the degree of love and affection we give to and receive from Him. And what is in a sense new is that as we progress (relatively speaking) towards increasing our ‘seeing’ of the beauty and light in our neighbour; and indeed in respect of all including those who we don’t always get along with. In a sense it may be termed love, but more accurately I feel as turning towards ‘agape’.

Perhaps it would be better dealing with the ‘Light’ first before discussing ‘Hope’ (which requires more theological language as it relates to time, the present, and future, - anticipations (or guesses based on reason) of what kind of life may afford us in the Hereafter).

God Bless,
 
May we have a discussion of Section 44 of the new Encyclical ?

This is an opportunity to present theological, religious, philosophical, mystical, and quantum
physics views of the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
“44. The sacramental character of faith finds its highest expression in the Eucharist. The Eucharist is a precious nourishment for faith: an encounter with Christ truly present in the supreme act of his love, the life-giving gift of himself. In the Eucharist we find the intersection of faith’s two dimensions. On the one hand, there is the dimension of history: the Eucharist is an act of remembrance, a making present of the mystery in which the past, as an event of death and resurrection, demonstrates its ability to open up a future, to foreshadow ultimate fulfilment. The liturgy reminds us of this by its repetition of the word hodie, the “today” of the mysteries of salvation. On the other hand, we also find the dimension which leads from the visible world to the invisible. In the Eucharist we learn to see the heights and depths of reality. The bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, who becomes present in his passover to the Father: this movement draws us, body and soul, into the movement of all creation towards its fulfilment in God.”
 
Norwich12 said:
May we have a discussion of Section 44 of the new Encyclical ?

This is an opportunity to present theological, religious, philosophical, mystical, and quantum
physics views of the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
“44. The sacramental character of faith finds its highest expression in the Eucharist. The Eucharist is a precious nourishment for faith: an encounter with Christ truly present in the supreme act of his love, the life-giving gift of himself. In the Eucharist we find the intersection of faith’s two dimensions. On the one hand, there is the dimension of history: the Eucharist is an act of remembrance, a making present of the mystery in which the past, as an event of death and resurrection, demonstrates its ability to open up a future, to foreshadow ultimate fulfilment. The liturgy reminds us of this by its repetition of the word hodie, the “today” of the mysteries of salvation. On the other hand, we also find the dimension which leads from the visible world to the invisible. In the Eucharist we learn to see the heights and depths of reality. The bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ, who becomes present in his passover to the Father: this movement draws us, body and soul, into the movement of all creation towards its fulfilment in God.”
Click to expand...
Yes indeed Norwich 12 - I agree this is a good starting point.

As the passage in question deals specifically with ‘realities’, I think a good logical start would be initially to commence with the subject of ‘Ontology’ [the nature of being].

To start off would you be happy with the following statements:

That the Sacramental Reality is a supernatural one and thus not a ‘natural’ mode of being. To place it within a more radical perspective - the reality under consideration is quite above and beyond even the heavenly dominions. For both the Angels & Saints for example are in and of themselves ‘natural beings’.

Regards
Paduard
 
Thank you Paduard. But as I do not have your theological background of knowledge, and I am a physician with a great interest in neuroscience, I had to look up Ontology.

Here is the closing paragraph of an article on Ontology in the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia. Then I will feel better equipped to approached you statements about reality, physical and supernatural.
*On the other hand the subjective and psychological tendencies of Descartes and his followers dimmed yet more the vision for metaphysical truth. Primary notions and principles were held to be either forms innate in the mind or results of its development, but which do not express objective reality. Kant, analysing the structure of the cognitive faculties — perception, judgment, reasoning — discovers in them innate forms that present to reflection aspects of phenomena which appear to be the objective realities, being, substance, cause, etc., but which in truth are only subjective views evoked by sensory stimuli. The subject matter of Ontology is thus reduced to the types which the mind, until checked by criticism, projects into the external world. Between these two extremes of Empiricism and Idealism the traditional philosophy retains the convictions of common sense and the subtle analysis of the Scholastics. Being, essence, truth, substance, accident, cause, and the rest, are words expressing ideas but standing for realities. These realities are objective aspects of the individuals that strike the senses and the intellect. They exist concretely outside of the mind, not, of course, abstractly as they are within. They are the ultimate elementary notes or forms which the mind intuitively discerns, abstracts, and reflectively analyses in its endeavour to comprehend fundamentally any object. In this reflective analysis it must employ whatever information it can obtain from empirical psychology. Until recently this latter auxiliary has been insufficiently recognized by the philosophers. The works, however, of Maher and Walker mentioned below manifest a just appreciation of the importance of psychology’s cooperation in the study of ontology. *

Once I understand Ontology a little better, I will look at your statements and try to make an educated reply! Thank you very much for your good attention and interest in my Lumen Fidei thread. (Sorry that I misspelled “lumen” at the beginning and it keeps carrying forward – lumen is a familiar term for me in medicine – an opening like a window or the inside of a tubular vessel. That is an interesting comparison of the word “lumen” also meaning light or a unit of light).

Thank you,
N12
 
Yes Paduard,

I am ready to answer the question about your statement (sounds like the TV program Jeopardy):

Paduard post #33: To start off would you be happy with the following statements:

That the Sacramental Reality is a supernatural one and thus not a ‘natural’ mode of being. To place it within a more radical perspective - the reality under consideration is quite above and beyond even the heavenly dominions. For both the Angels & Saints for example are in and of themselves ‘natural beings’.

Norwich12: Yes I would agree that the Sacramental Reality of Holy Communion, the Eucharist— with the Real Presence brought about by Transubstantiation is a ‘Supernatural Reality.’

The change of substance with the consecration deals with ‘substance’ in the metaphysical sense of the word – akin to essence or quiddity from the Latin quidditas. It is the change of whatness (what-is-ness).

View attachment 18042

Now it is your turn to move the process forward.
 
Norwich12 said:
Yes Paduard,

I am ready to answer the question about your statement (sounds like the TV program Jeopardy):

Paduard post #33: To start off would you be happy with the following statements:

That the Sacramental Reality is a supernatural one and thus not a ‘natural’ mode of being. To place it within a more radical perspective - the reality under consideration is quite above and beyond even the heavenly dominions. For both the Angels & Saints for example are in and of themselves ‘natural beings’.

Norwich12: Yes I would agree that the Sacramental Reality of Holy Communion, the Eucharist— with the Real Presence brought about by Transubstantiation is a ‘Supernatural Reality.’

The change of substance with the consecration deals with ‘substance’ in the metaphysical sense of the word – akin to essence or quiddity from the Latin quidditas. It is the change of whatness (what-is-ness).

View attachment 18042

Now it is your turn to move the process forward.
Click to expand...
Brilliant Norwich 12.

I was going to point out to you that the New Advent passage was dated 1911 - over 100 years ago! But that isn’t necessary now - for example they didn’t know as much as we do now in relation to the progression of science e.g. for them Quarks etc. were unknown.

However before proceeding further towards Eschatology End Times} - perhaps via The Light of Christ - I will think a little more on the most efficient way of proceeding.

However if others listening in here would contribute it would be most desirable!!

Regards,
Paduard
 
Thank you Paduard – I have never been called “brilliant” re Philosophy.
I am a small town Episcopalian physician in the South (USA).
But I have been reading Catholic theology for half a century; but didn’t realize the Encyopedia
had been around at least twice as long!

Speaking of time, I started this holy thread 6 weeks ago. There have been over 1200 visits.
The delta hits over delta time are accelerating thanks to (name removed by moderator)ut by you and regulars
like Linusthe2nd.

But we need wider (name removed by moderator)ut by multiple faiths: we are trying to describe
Universal Truth.

Peace,
N12 (in memory of Julian of Norwich)
 
Definitions:

May I remind the readers that in this new age of Photons and Bisons, that Substance has a different meaning to us than the 13th century Scholastics.

IMO the use of the term substance is metaphysical when speaking of Real Presence.

The definition of Metaphysics in Merriam-Webster online:

" 2a : of or relating to the transcendent or to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses

2b : supernatural "

View attachment 18053
 
Norwich12 said:
Definitions:

May I remind the readers that in this new age of Photons and Bisons, that Substance has a different meaning to us than the 13th century Scholastics.

IMO the use of the term substance is metaphysical when speaking of Real Presence.

The definition of Metaphysics in Merriam-Webster online:

" 2a : of or relating to the transcendent or to a reality beyond what is perceptible to the senses

2b : supernatural "

View attachment 18053
Click to expand...
Peronally I can find no reason to suggest any error in what you have written above; except a slight modification by stating that what is perceptible to the senses (if speaking in scientific terms) is governed of course by the progress of science itself.

Paduard

NB: Others no doubt may reply differently.
 
As the Pope chose the name Francis, I think it would be appropriate to read what a Church Father, namely St. Bonaventure, wrote about the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Bonaventure was an Italian Franciscan theologian/philosopher in the 13th Century. From what I have read about him, he reasoned more along Mystical lines than Scholastic; Plato more than Aristotle.

Next I will post part of his work: ON THE MOST HOLY BODY OF CHRIST

I chose the section explaining the ontology of the consecrated Host.
 
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