Luther-Bashing is Anti-Catholic

[theCardinalbird]

Luther-Bashing is Anti-Catholic, i am one who has fallen into doing such anti-Catholic habits. But what i would like to say is that surely we cannot equate bashing and pointing out ones errors?

Also, i fail to see how Luther could be justified for separating from the Church and creating his own Church, which is one of the reasons why i point out his error and condemn it.

I read a part of his theses and i was horrified as to what he said about the Chair of Peter. I would be surprised if he was commended for what he said, by the Vatican. But this is only my opinion.

Correct me if I’m wrong

 

[theCardinalbird]

Also, with that being said, if the Lutherans can be brought back to the Church than surely the Church must try. But, this must be done without falling into Luther’s heresy and appeasing anything contrary to Catholic dogma.

Agreed?

 

[theCardinalbird]

and here is what he wrote about the papacy:

RORATE CÆLI: 500 Years of the Protestant Revolution - (1) How Luther viewed the Holy Roman Church (Strong Language)

Some of the stuff he said is sad and makes me surprised. Showing his work is not Luther-bashing because these are his thoughts and words

Edit: I also would like to say that although he made the mistake of leaving the Church and insulting the Papacy like that, he is still deserving of forgiveness as well as his followers.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

SojournerOnEarth:

You just leap at the chance to bash him, don’t you?

Is this following your popes’ example on ecumenical relations?

How is quoting Luther’s filthy works verbatim, ‘bashing him’?! Can we not expose his works to stir the hearts of those who ignorantly follow his theology, to reconcile them back to the Church Christ founded?

That approach is the one the Church has abandoned. It just makes you look bad and makes others angry. It is ineffectual. It gives the impression you just want to smear him. And a lot of the “exposure” is false information.

 

[po18guy]

Though the man is certainly worth praying for (which he did not believe in!), his error was rightly condemned and officially opposed at Trent. Truth matters, and souls that were lead astray matter.

We live in an age of pervasive, corrosive and tyrannical relativism. The fact that modern Lutherans do not follow their forefather’s teachings reflects better on them and worse on him.

Look, the man was deeply, profoundly disturbed psychologically. Even those who fawned over him, such as Philipp Melanchthon, made mention of this within their praise of the man.

The fact that ‘saving faith’ is defined as faith which one believes will save them is utterly radical, not supported by scripture, and makes a mockery of the Lord’s constant call to repentance.

Despite the goodness of modern Lutherans, the dangerous errors of you-know-who must be pointed out since, last I heard, truth still exists and still matters.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

Also, with that being said, if the Lutherans can be brought back to the Church than surely the Church must try. But, this must be done without falling into Luther’s heresy and appeasing anything contrary to Catholic dogma.

Agreed?

The Church should work towards reconciliation. The thing is, it has shown how it wants it done, and this is not that way.

 

[Randolph]

Joe1… Well said and thank you. All souls are worthy to be forgiven and be granted mercy. But, the process must be based on truth, sincerity and honesty. Things do get worse if we ignore them.

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

The fact that modern Lutherans do not follow their forefather’s teachings reflects better on them and worse on him.

So why attack him, if they are not following him?

 

[theCardinalbird]

and this is not that way.

are you referring to what the Church is doing for reconciliation or what i suggested?

 

[AugustTherese]

So why attack him, if they are not following him?

We aren’t attacking the person of Martin Luther. We are merely exposing his works for what they are. Wouldn’t you want to know if your denominational founder’s works were vile and lewd? Or, would you want to remain in the naive comfort of not knowing?

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

SojournerOnEarth:

and this is not that way.

are you referring to what the Church is doing for reconciliation or what i suggested?

I am referring to the fact there is a dissonance between the methods of ecumenism that the Church requires its members to follow, and is following, and the sordid methodology being followed here, which has never worked and is in opposition to the Church. It is amazing to me that Catholics who are posting here, theoretically engaging in ecumenism, have no idea as to how to go about it. They wind up wounding the Body of Christ further with their antics.

 

[theCardinalbird]

i see. thanks for clarifying

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

SojournerOnEarth:

So why attack him, if they are not following him?

We aren’t attacking the person of Martin Luther’s.

Bulllfrogs. You most certainly are. Just take a look at this thread and see the things that have been said about him that are personal, such as his psychological condition…

So why attack him, if they are not following him?

“Look, the man was deeply, profoundly disturbed psychologically. Even those who fawned over him, such as Philipp Melanchthon, made mention of this within their praise of the man.”

Did you read that? Is that "not attacking the person of Martin Luther’s [sic]?

 

[AugustTherese]

Bull______.

Wow! I advise no one else to acknowledge this poster.

 

[AugustTherese]

Bulllfrogs

Nice quick edit. We will know by their works.

 

[po18guy]

I disagree with your thought process. Was trying Ted Bundy for murder “bashing” him? Must we slavishly praise the dead? Pol Pot? Joseph Stalin? Idi Amin?

They achieved sanctity by simply dropping dead?

Was the Church wrong to condemn YKW for heresy?

Truth matters, that’s why.

READ the man’s writings for goodness’ sake!

 

[SojournerOnEarth]

Must we slavishly praise the dead? Pol Pot? Joseph Stalin? Idi Amin?

Was the Church wrong to condemn him for heresy?

Truth matters, that’s why.

READ the man’s writings for goodness’ sake!

Nobody said anything about “slavishly praising the dead”.

You give me every impression that you are in open, willful rebellion against the Church.

 

[Vonsalza]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[theCardinalbird]

I would only judge Luther by his works and actions. To point out the error of one mans works is not to bash him, it is to correct him. Even after his death, some people would say things about him that are false, which would force us to say the truth of what he believed in and did.

What he believed in and how he put in his writings, shows a vehement hatred towards the Catholic Church and the Papacy. None of this can be argued as false. Also, his heresy, which he didn’t renounce before his excommunication (i do not know if he ever renounced it after) shows that he was not friend to the Church and would not listen. Because of this people have a sour opinion about Luther due to what he did.

What can we say then? A man can be forgiven of his transgressions by God through his Church. Repentance of sins is important in this. For if a man would not repent what happens?

The final judge is God alone. Wherever he is, heaven or hell, that is God’s decision. We cannot judge where he is, nor can we treat him cruelly based on appearance. We can only judge based on his works, and what he has said in his writings, and hope God has mercy on his soul.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

JonNC:

steve-b:

Not every approach is true ecumenism.

But that’s not my question. If the issue was Church authority for Luther, why not for Cathilics today regarding how to do ecumenism?

For the record, I’m pretty sure a Catholic becoming Lutheran is viewed no differently now than pre-Vatican II

The answer is the same to both. The goal of Ecumenism is to end all the divisions from the Catholic Church. Not to excuse it or make nice just to be nice. There is only one Church, Jesus established on Peter and those in union with Peter. And Jesus wants perfect unity in His Church, The Catholic Church or there are consequences once someone knows the truth. How does one know the truth? Through education. Giving someone the unvarnished truth all properly referenced.

Shouldn’t ecumenism be done in the way the Church says to do it? In the way you do it you have set yourself against the church and thus separated yourself from it. You have criticized, on this thread, the “soft” approach now undertaken. I think you are in schism.

Most of my responses are backed up by Church links, NOT my opinions but Church links. NONE of them are squishy on the subject matter.