Lutherans--why Lutheran and not Catholic?

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Judas_Thaddeus said:
There is only One True Church, and Lutheranism isn’t it. The Roman Catholic Church
is Christ founded. The Lutheran Church is man founded. So with that said, let me pro-
vide an even better video, shorter too:
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This is exactly the kind of stuff I’m talking about. This poster is a troll. Always has been. He’s always trying to show how others are wrong. If I was a mod, he’d be warned, then banned. I’m done here. Mr. Hibbert, close my account.
 
benjohnson said:
…And if you do decide to explore the Lutheran tradition, please find a Confessional Lutheran church - usually the liturgy is noble and the gospel is proclaimed…

I love this thread; informative, and charitable. But what do you mean by a “Confessional Lutheran Church”? Is that a general term for a congregation with good, solid, preaching and practice? Or is that an official term by which one could identify a congregation as formally a “confessional” Lutheran church, the way one could identify a congregation with this, or that, Lutheran denomination? Is “confessional” an on/off button, or a judgment call as to whether a congregation is such?

Do all Lutheran congregations (rightly or wrongly) identify as “confessional”?

Don’t let this Catholic’s ignorance of Lutheranism slow down the thread, a brief answer will do if anyone has time.
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commenter said:
But what do you mean by a “Confessional Lutheran Church”? Is that a general term for a congregation with good, solid, preaching and practice?
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That’s an excellent question - in the last 50 years the Lutheran church in America has split into two groups - one is more liberal and tends to see the bible though modern eyes that discount the wisdom of the past in favor for a new morality. The other are ‘old-fashoned’ and tend to rely on the Bible and the Lutheran confessions and are labeled as “Confessional Lutherans.”

You can kind of tell by the Synod what type of Lutheran they are but that can lead to making the wrong Conclusions: There’s confessional ELCA churches, and contemporary worship LCMS churches for example.
 
benjohnson said:
That’s an excellent question - in the last 50 years the Lutheran church in America has split into two groups - one is more liberal and tends to see the bible though modern eyes that discount the wisdom of the past in favor for a new morality. The other are ‘old-fashoned’ and tend to rely on the Bible and the Lutheran confessions and are labeled as “Confessional Lutherans.”

You can kind of tell by the Synod what type of Lutheran they are but that can lead to making the wrong Conclusions: There’s confessional ELCA churches, and contemporary worship LCMS churches for example.
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Generally speaking, the LCMS is the synod that is more Confessional. If you want to know what Lutherans believe, OP, check out the Book of Concord. It’s online.
 
JonNC said:
Apart from being born and raised Lutheran, I remain Lutheran and not Catholic specifically for one particular reason, and that is the claim of universal jurisdiction by the Bishop of Rome, and the fact that the other historic sees do not agree with that claim.

My suggestion, however, is that you explore Catholicism, Lutheranism, traditional Anglicanism, and Orthodoxy, and make an informed decision. I also suggest that you make sure you have a strong knowledge of Methodism. It is just as important to know what you are leaving behind as it is to know what you are moving toward, and may the Spirit guide you in your journey.

Jon
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I third this.

And, as with the other Lutherans, it really depends on your location and the parishes around you. But, I do agree that checking out the LCMS gives you better odds of finding a traditional, confessional Lutheran parish than certain other denominations.
 
benjohnson said:
That’s an excellent question - in the last 50 years the Lutheran church in America has split into two groups - one is more liberal and tends to see the bible though modern eyes that discount the wisdom of the past in favor for a new morality. The other are ‘old-fashoned’ and tend to rely on the Bible and the Lutheran confessions and are labeled as “Confessional Lutherans.”

You can kind of tell by the Synod what type of Lutheran they are but that can lead to making the wrong Conclusions: There’s confessional ELCA churches, and contemporary worship LCMS churches for example.
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I think that this over simplifies things a bit… there are liberal Pietists, liberal “high” Lutherans (to borrow an Anglican/ Episcopal phrase), conservative Pietists, conservative “high” Lutherans, and, in opposition to these, confessional Lutherans. It isn’t simply that some adopted higher criticism and other recent scholarly trends, there are erroneous positions that claim to be Lutheran that go back to the time of old man Luther himself.
 
ndismyhome said:
I think that this over simplifies things a bit… there are liberal Pietists, liberal “high” Lutherans (to borrow an Anglican/ Episcopal phrase), conservative Pietists, conservative “high” Lutherans, and, in opposition to these, confessional Lutherans. It isn’t simply that some adopted higher criticism and other recent scholarly trends, there are erroneous positions that claim to be Lutheran that go back to the time of old man Luther himself.
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You’re correct! Another wrinkle - Confessional Lutherans are struggling with contemporary worship and the church-growth movement.
 
ndismyhome said:
I think that this over simplifies things a bit… there are liberal Pietists, liberal “high” Lutherans (to borrow an Anglican/ Episcopal phrase), conservative Pietists, conservative “high” Lutherans, and, in opposition to these, confessional Lutherans. It isn’t simply that some adopted higher criticism and other recent scholarly trends, there are erroneous positions that claim to be Lutheran that go back to the time of old man Luther himself.
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Father, I am curious if you have Roman Catholics communing in your parish? Here on the East Coast where there are many Roman Catholics, we seem to get lots of them coming up for holy Communion. But, of-course, many Lutherans accept Catholics and all Christians at the altar who believe according to the Apostles Creed and are baptized.
 
Jon_S said:
Really?!

The hope for continued ecumenical dialogue despite the “vast barriers” needs a rebuttal?

:mad:
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I posted that article in haste. I should have written something other than what I did, but alas, I posted more quickly than my good judgement allowed (I had to run to a meeting). What I meant to say is something like this, “While I share your sentiments about striving for reunification between the Lutheran churches and the Holy See of Rome, there are a number of ornery Lutherans out there who would throw a wrench in the plans. See this article for an example of that.”
 
ndismyhome said:
I posted that article in haste. I should have written something other than what I did, but alas, I posted more quickly than my good judgement allowed (I had to run to a meeting). What I meant to say is something like this, “While I share your sentiments about striving for reunification between the Lutheran churches and the Holy See of Rome, there are a number of ornery Lutherans out there who would throw a wrench in the plans. See this article for an example of that.”
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Oh, there’s some ornery Catholics out there, too. 😛

Jon
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Father, I am curious if you have Roman Catholics communing in your parish? Here on the East Coast where there are many Roman Catholics, we seem to get lots of them coming up for holy Communion. But, of-course, many Lutherans accept Catholics and all Christians at the altar who believe according to the Apostles Creed and are baptized.
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I have had Roman Catholics take Communion at my parish. This is not something I advocate, nor do I encourage Catholics to commune at my parish without understanding the ramifications of their action with both the Lutheran church and their standing in their diocese, but people do slip through sometimes.
 
ndismyhome said:
This is true. The problem with churches is that they tend to fill their pews with sinners. 😉
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I think the point we’d agree on is that unity must come from, 1st, a willingness to dialogue with a desire for the unity Christ calls us to, and 2nd, to dialogue from a position that while doctrine does not change, convergence can be found with the guidance of the Spirit.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I think the point we’d agree on is that unity must come from, 1st, a willingness to dialogue with a desire for the unity Christ calls us to, and 2nd, to dialogue from a position that while doctrine does not change, convergence can be found with the guidance of the Spirit.

Jon
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Agreed. Union by mutual desire to hang out or whatever leaves much to be desired. I experience the distress that this brings souls daily in my parish. For example, a woman came to visit me just this past week, disturbed that we are in union with the Presbyterians and what the lay-preacher of the local Presbyterian congregation told her about the Sacraments. She assumed that we must believe the same thing, and she decided to give me a piece of her mind about it all.
 
ndismyhome said:
Agreed. Union by mutual desire to hang out or whatever leaves much to be desired. I experience the distress that this brings souls daily in my parish. For example, a woman came to visit me just this past week, disturbed that we are in union with the Presbyterians and what the lay-preacher of the local Presbyterian congregation told her about the Sacraments. She assumed that we must believe the same thing, and she decided to give me a piece of her mind about it all.
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I can sympathize with your parishoner, pastor. It’s for precisely those sycretistic (or at least syncretistic appearances) that I wonder why more confessional Lutherans - as I presume you to be, sir - don’t leave that body for more “Lutheran” grounds? :o
 
ndismyhome said:
Agreed. Union by mutual desire to hang out or whatever leaves much to be desired. I experience the distress that this brings souls daily in my parish. For example, a woman came to visit me just this past week, disturbed that we are in union with the Presbyterians and what the lay-preacher of the local Presbyterian congregation told her about the Sacraments. She assumed that we must believe the same thing, and she decided to give me a piece of her mind about it all.
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I was also dismayed when the ELCA declared full communion with Reformed Christians. But then I realized that exposing other Christians to the Real Presence as believed by Lutherans [as well as infant baptism, holy absolution, weekly mass, etc.] provides them insight into the mysteries of the faith. The efficacy of holy Communion is never determined by individual understanding.
 
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