he is not the one choosing whether we go to hell or not. He gives all people the free gift of Grace in order to be saved. After that, it is up to us as to whether we accept His gift or not. Yes, He knew before He created anything who would accept Him and who would not.
If God gives every person grace, how is that some believe and some reject God? Ultimately you have to say because the man who believes is somehow better. Either he is smarter, or has better character, or some reason that has nothing to do with God’s decision to save. Does God just know the future passively such that he did not actively plan what was going to happen? Is God subject to chance to fate? Does God want everyone to accept his grace, but he knows he is going to fail?
If that’s what you’re getting from what I’ve written then you really need to go back and read my posts more carefully.
Predestination does not nullify free will. If it did, then sin is an illusion. And to send sinners to hell is no more punishment than making a Georgian stay in Georiga. I could easily tell you that I was born with a predilection for drinking. This is the way God made me and since He also “controls” my will, I have no “choice” in whether or not I drink. I am merely acted upon not an actor. But if that’s the case, then you can’t say my drinking is bad, because bad assumes a defect in my nature (or essence?). But I am as I, as God designed me. My will is accordingly moved or not moved by Him and thus you cannot argue that any of my actions are defective for that is nonsensical. Without free will, there is no good and bad, no place for judgments and certainly no sin. There is only existence.
Hell is a place of our own choosing. We are not sent there by God but rather it is place that is created as a complete rejection of God.
We choose Hell, not God, simply because He knows the ends does not in anyway mean we do not have the choice.
God gives all some grace but as a result of original sin our original faculties have become blinded. Only through the sacraments are our faculties restored to part of their orignal level before the fall. Through the sacraments we grow in garce which continuely helps us be able to see the good from the false good. Grace brings faith and faith brings grace. All our called to God but they can reject that call as many of them do and their journey into truth remains as well as their blinded faculties as well.
Is a doctor who goes to mediacl school a better doctor than one who doesn’t? Yes. Is the doctor a better person? Not necessarily.
Grace and faith helps us come closer to seeing reality as it is and God as He is. Our intellect tells us what is good and our will goes out and gets it. Grace returns the faculty of our intellect to disceren rigt from wrong to part of what it once was before the fall through the sacraments and prayer.
God is both active and passive. God is not the Gof Diests.
No
God would love everyone to accept Him but this does not constitute failure on His part. He can not fail when He himself purposely gave us freedom of will.
A will that does not choose does not exist. It is the nature of the will to choose, since that is its function. But having a will does not imply that it is free, since I contend that fallen man without the Spirit who renews the will is not free to choose good. God does not cause us to sin, since we choose to sin because we want to, but the choice is not free. The reason we are justified in saying that sin is bad is because God’s law says so. Man is responsible for his actions, since God holds sinners accountable to his law. All of men’s sins are the result of Adam’s sin which he freely commited. Adam had the ability in the garden to choose good or evil, but Adam chose to sin and thus his posterity is under condemnation.
You have to make a disquisition between contingent choices and free choices. To say that all choices must be free, is to say that free will must be the case. A will that does not chose, is not anything at all. Making a choice means that a will acts based on what it desires most. Why then does a free will make the decisions that it does, if it is not contingent?And your interpretation of Luther is right and wrong. He contends there is a will, but he also contends it has no “choice” (Luther’s words). If a will has no choice, it is not a free will. And it is then a rock, an inanimate object. To say that Luther contradicts himself is correct, but then if you read the entire “Bondage of the Will” (which I have in all it’s dreariness), you’ll see he’s basically sounding like a teed off ten year old. His style is unpolished and rough and his vitriole sophmoric. Basically, he’s unimpressive. And I read this as a Lutheran a couple years ago so I really wanted to like the guy. Oh well, I figured he had issues, but really - the guy writes like Michael Moore directs, badly.
I agree that we choose Hell, since the natural man chooses to sin and that decision has consequences. So God does not send us to hell and God does not deside that we go to hell. Does God have the abllity to have everyone end up in Heaven, and does God want everyone to go to Heaven? If so why will not this be the case? If you say because some men do not want to do so, then does God have to accept what man says to him? Does God follow the finite will of the creature, eventhough God wants to do the oposite of what the sinner wants? Does the sinner knows what is best for him better than God does?
God can do ANYTHING. It is not a question of God wanting everyone to go heaven. God has given us free will that we can use to respond to his free gift of grace. The fact that God has given us the ability to choose to follow him or reject him (by sinning), in no way diminishes his sovereignty. If God wills something, it happens. He has willed us to have free will, and has given us the option of not responding to his grace.
When Adam sinned he chose death rather than life with God. Adam was made in true rightousness and holiness. God told him not the eat of the tree in the midst of the garden, so Adam had knowledge of his choice. All of his decendents were born in sin and go forth from the womb speaking lies. These people do not have the ability to love and obey God. If they could then man is in the same position that Adam was in the garden, and Adam did not need any grace since he was made perfect. Why would God give grace to a person who does not need it?
Yes, and I will give but one scriptural verse to prove it even though there are more:
What is free will? Is it the ability to choose good or evil? What does grace actually do if it is given to everyone and it can be rejected? If everybody has grace, then was does that mean? Is man in control of his own destiny? God can only give grace and hope man will accept him?
His own nature.
No. Why do you set up this silly straw man?
I don’t know if “just” or “unjust” has any meaning when speaking of the relationship between Creator and Creature. Certainly I am in no position to say what is or is not just for God to do toward me, except that it would probably be something very scary, if “justice” means “treat according to merit.” “Justice” as we humans conceive of it is often abstracted from mercy–but that’s not how it is in God. God is not a complex of warring attributes. God has a unified nature, and that nature is utterly and completely good.
The Jews were the chosen people by way of God’s grace. You are attempting to dodge this verse. The fact is that grace is not irresistable. The unregenerated man can resist grace and so can one that is regenerated. This can be seen in many verses of scripture and it can certainly be seen in man’s tendency to fall into sin even after he is regenerated. It is not God’s intention for us to sin and He gives us the grace to avoid sin. Nevertheless, we do sin inspite of God’s grace.
You forget, the finite will of us creatures was given by God Himself. God does not follow our will but rather He allows us to use the freedom of choice He himself has given us.