Machine gun fire into Las Vegas crowd at Route 91 music Festival

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rcwitness said:
No one is trying to punish the guns…
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i did not say anyone is trying to punish guns. I was responding to the poster who called some guns (and also some cars apparently) bad, which i find to be a strange statement.
 
MonteRCMS said:
Places that have lots and lots of guns have relatively little crime.

Florida. For example.
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Stats from 2013 show Florida had 12.49 deaths by firearms per 100,000. Compared to the national average of 10.64, this makes Florida a little worse than average. On the other hand, we have at the top of the list, Alaska at 19.59 and Wyoming at 17.51. These are also places with lots of guns per person.
Places that have lots and lots of gun control have relatively major crime.

Chicago. For example.
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Chicago is not so bad compared to other large American cities. It had one third the murder rate of New Orleans, Detroit, and St. Louis. You certainly have not proved your point.
 
I realize that this terrible act of violence has shocked the nation, and the manner in which it was committed sounds like it came right out of a Tom Clancy book. However, these proposals you’ve listed are advocating for nothing more than a police state, on top of which they would do nothing to address any of the murders we have seen committed over the last several years.

A cap on the number of firearms you can buy? Private individuals can’t sell firearms? Permits to even be legally allowed to take your firearm from point A to point B? “Your papers, comrade.”

Thank God the Bill of Rights was adopted, and they were wise enough to put “shall not be infringed” in there.

I would have thought a Catholic site, of all places, would recognize that it is people that have changed, society that has changed over the last few decades to where some feel the need to commit mass murder to address their problems. The same or even more lax laws were in place 30, 50, 70, 100yrs ago, yet people didn’t go around gunning down dozens of their neighbors because they were depressed, wanted to make a statement, or wanted to get attention. The laws aren’t the problem.

This whole gun control surge is a gross overreaction and I only hope cooler heads prevail.
 
Xystus said:
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rcwitness:
No one is trying to punish the guns…
Click to expand...
i did not say anyone is trying to punish guns. I was responding to the poster who called some guns (and also some cars apparently) bad, which i find to be a strange statement.
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Didn’t that get a little smile at least? 🙂

I tried for a bit of light heartedness after so much debate. But my point is that no one thinks guns are evil (or at least rational people who see a valid and constructive purpose to restrict some gun rights). We just want to keep guns out of evil men’s hands as much as possible. Even if it means restrictions the rights of those who would never abuse a gun.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Chicago is not so bad compared to other large American cities. It had one third the murder rate of New Orleans, Detroit, and St. Louis. You certainly have not proved your point.
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Your link shows the homicide rate for the cities listed. What % of those from each city are gun related?
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Stats from 2013 show Florida had 12.49 deaths by firearms per 100,000. Compared to the national average of 10.64, this makes Florida a little worse than average. On the other hand, we have at the top of the list, Alaska at 19.59 and Wyoming at 17.51. These are also places with lots of guns per person.
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That includes suicides. Take suicides out and then run the numbers.
LeafByNiggle said:
I think we ought to oppose all evil - intrinsic or not. If you only oppose intrinsic evils, you will not be opposing very many of the evils.
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Guns aren’t evil at all. So no need to oppose them.
 
FirstFiveEighth said:
I realize that this terrible act of violence has shocked the nation, and the manner in which it was committed sounds like it came right out of a Tom Clancy book. However, these proposals you’ve listed are advocating for nothing more than a police state, on top of which they would do nothing to address any of the murders we have seen committed over the last several years.

A cap on the number of firearms you can buy? Private individuals can’t sell firearms? Permits to even be legally allowed to take your firearm from point A to point B? “Your papers, comrade.”

Thank God the Bill of Rights was adopted, and they were wise enough to put “shall not be infringed” in there.

I would have thought a Catholic site, of all places, would recognize that it is people that have changed, society that has changed over the last few decades to where some feel the need to commit mass murder to address their problems. The same or even more lax laws were in place 30, 50, 70, 100yrs ago, yet people didn’t go around gunning down dozens of their neighbors because they were depressed, wanted to make a statement, or wanted to get attention. The laws aren’t the problem.

This whole gun control surge is a gross overreaction and I only hope cooler heads prevail.
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I can definitely appreciate your comments here. And I’m actually not a staunch gun control guy. I certainly don’t think it will fix everything. The deeper issues are the spiritual health of our neighbors. Not many of us are able to stand against sinful neglect of God and His commandments.

For a long time, in this thread, I stayed away from the gun debate. And for this very reason. Guns aren’t the main issue. It’s that our society is drifting farther from Christian principles.

However, in light of the extreme epidemic our country is going through, I think it’s wise to make heavier gun restrictions.
 
Xystus said:
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rcwitness:
But my point is that no one thinks guns are evil
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i’m not so sure you are correct in thinking that.
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You are right. That’s why I added…

(or at least rational people who see a valid and constructive purpose to restrict some gun rights)
 
MonteRCMS said:
Places that have lots and lots of guns have relatively little crime.

Florida. For example.

Places that have lots and lots of gun control have relatively major crime.

Chicago. For example.

So, maybe it’s not the guns, but rather … it’s the people.
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Not to critique what you said, but I’m not sure any assumed correlations are accurate. Take, for example, Mexico, which has very restrictive gun laws. It also has a lower murder-by-gun rate than the U.S. But it has a massively higher murder rate than the U.S. About three times as many, per capita.

Add the fact that low-restriction states tend to have lower murder rates than high-restriction states, I’m not sure any correlation of restrictions with murder or gun murder rates are meaningful.

As with the mass murderers, it’s not unlikely that other factors entirely explain their prevalence.
 
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exnihilo said:
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LeafByNiggle:
Stats from 2013 show Florida had 12.49 deaths by firearms per 100,000. Compared to the national average of 10.64, this makes Florida a little worse than average. On the other hand, we have at the top of the list, Alaska at 19.59 and Wyoming at 17.51. These are also places with lots of guns per person.
Click to expand...
That includes suicides. Take suicides out and then run the numbers.
LeafByNiggle said:
I think we ought to oppose all evil - intrinsic or not. If you only oppose intrinsic evils, you will not be opposing very many of the evils.
Click to expand...
Guns aren’t evil at all. So no need to oppose them.
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Why would we need to take suicides out?

Again, no one rational would call any object evil in itself. Just like a prostitutes body is far from evil. But we can make selling her body illegal.
 
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rcwitness said:
However, in light of the extreme epidemic our country is going through, I think it’s wise to make heavier gun restrictions.
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How do we know it’s not copycatting due to the extreme media attention mass murders engender? How do we know it’s not Islam, since Islamic terrorists so far have the highest head count. How do we know it’s not a combination of the media attention and mental illness of a few?

There have always been plenty of guns in this country. At times there have probably been more per capita than now. Mass murderers are almost certainly not motivated by the accessibility of guns, and might not even be dependent on them to do their work. I read where Britain is going to ban carrying acid because of the 2,000 odd acid attacks there in the last few years.
 
rcwitness said:
Why would we need to take suicides out?

Again, no one rational would call any object evil in itself. Just like a prostitutes body is far from evil. But we can make selling her body illegal.
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Aren’t we talking about innocent people being killed by guns? If so then suicides shouldn’t be included. Anyone intent on killing himself can easily do so without a gun.

We’ve made murder illegal. Just like prostitution can be illegal. What you are suggesting is like saying we need to make illegal attractive women so there won’t be any prostitution. Or we make it illegal for unmarried women to live together lest it become a brothel.
 
Let them commit suicide another way.

No, I’m saying that we can make things illegal that allow an object to be used for evil.
 
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