Major Study Finds Masks Don’t Reduce COVID-19 Infection Rates

[Jen95]

Horowitz: Danish newspaper reveals largest study on masks has been rejected by 3 medical journals | Blaze Media

 

[Cathoholic]

Thanks for posting that reminder story Jen95!

 

[Cathoholic]

This attacking the study was inevitable.

A former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) lambasted a study from Denmark released on Wednesday that concluded that surgical masks do not protect against the coronavirus.

In an editorial piece responding directly to the study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine (AIM), former CDC director Thomas Frieden wrote, "Although no single strategy can control the pandemic, widespread masking in the community can mitigate spread . . .

Bold mine.

Mitigation of course merely slows down the rate of spreading.
It does not stop spreading (but you need more time to see that).

But at least they admit masks “can mitigate” instead of pretending to put forth a bogus theory like . . .

. . . Masks can STOP the spread . . .

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/5...udy-that-raises-doubt-about-wearing-masks?amp

The critical review seemed to ignore the fact that the Annals of Internal Medicine article said the same thing . . .

Community mask use can substantially reduce risk for SARS-CoV-2 transmission . . .

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-7499

 

[Cathoholic]

The UCLA study cited was also not in society.

It was particle measurement in a lab.

Again only partially relevant.

Zhu’s team, which includes UCLA scholars Liqiao Li and Muchuan Niu, set up a test space in a lab and measured the particle number concentration (PNC)

UCLA study touts effectiveness of masks in reducing COVID-19 spread

.

Sorry. That STAT reference was no more relevant.

It was a statistical MODEL based on “if this, then that scenarios.”

From your own StatNews reference . . . .

But experts warn that the figures from any of the model’s hypothetical scenarios are less useful than the comparison between the different possibilities. By putting those projections side by side, you can start to see how much of an effect something like mask-wearing might have on a population level, if you take the authors’ estimation that face coverings can reduce an individual’s risk of infection by about 40%.

“The exact numbers are impossible to predict,” said Ruth Etzioni, a biostatistician at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center and the University of Washington, who was not involved in the new research.

They only actually tested some short-term models (once you are in short-term, that can be mere “mitigation” and so shows nothing beyond that.

Again from your own StatNews source . . . .

Once the institute made the switch, Reich explained, “their more recent short-term forecasts, which have been submitted to the COVID-19 Forecast Hub, have performed reasonably well in accuracy for up to one month into the future. They aren’t the best model, but they seem to be making reasonably accurate short-term predictions.”

Study: Universal mask use could save 130,000 lives by February | STAT

Bold mine.

This is just what I would expect.

Fine for mitigation. Will not be stopping any pandemics though.

Politicians want voters to think they are doing SOMETHING good to stop the pandemic.

It’s politics mixed in with public health.

And that’s what these MANDATES are. Politics.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I’ve been shouting this one from the rooftops for awhile now. You want protection using a mask? You need to be using N95’s or better.

But if you don’t have an N95 mask, at least wear something to contain your exhalations.

Those cloth masks and those cheap surgical masks will not only not keep you safe, they’ll help the spread.

That is an unproven conclusion from the (true) scientific fact that some cloth barriers can break up droplets to smaller size. They are still better than nothing.

There are so many regions reporting increased cases despite mask orders…

That assumes the orders are being followed. Also, what matters is what the cases would have been without mitigation. They would have been worse. Please stop spreading misinformation about covid and masks.

Masks were proven not to work in the 1918 flu epidemic;

Just false. Unless you have an unrealistic definition of what it means for a mask to “work.”

they were proven for many decades not to work against influenza and other viruses that pass via respiratory means.

…That’s more misinformation.

Not only that but the N-95s say right on the package, they need to be changed out every few hours.

We no longer have the box or instructions as it was purchased b.c. (before coronamania).

But I think the actual instructions were something to the effect of the need to change out the mask every three hours.

So even with N-95 protection,
you better have several masks on hand.

That is for optimal benefit. But N95 masks are still being reused in hospitals today because of the continued shortage. They attempt to disinfect them with UV light and just waiting a few days for the virus on them to die. It is not optimal, but it is better than not using an N95 mask. I know. My DIL is an infectious disease specialist who deals with these matters on a daily basis.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

N95’s are said to filter out 95% of particles as small as 0.3 microns. The Wuhan Flu is .125 microns big. Respiratory droplets are as small as .5 microns.

Since the majority of viruses are riding on respiratory droplets, most of them are filtered out by an N95 mask.

Virus are also said to be able to invade the body through skin pores and the eyes.

That’s why hospital workers in covid wards wear full body coverings. But the main vector is still respiratory spread. Infection through pores is possible but not likely.

And if you can smell smoke (.4 to .7 microns) through a mask then it isn’t protecting you from a virus.

Wrong. The smell of smoke is not from smoke particles from the accompanying gasses.

 

[BT3241]

In that case why should a surgeon wear a mask doing surgery - they don’t work or stop the spit and the poor guy or gal might pass out.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . . .

But N95 masks are still being reused in hospitals today because of the continued shortage.

.

I wasn’t aware that hospitals were using N-95 masks.

I know a surgeon who told me back in March they were reusing their usual SURGICAL masks, but not N-95 masks.

Zhu’s team, which includes UCLA scholars Liqiao Li and Muchuan Niu, set up a test space in a lab and measured the particle number concentration (PNC) and particle size distribution under seven different conditions: (1) no face covering; (2) face shield only; (3) cloth mask; (4) face shield + cloth mask; (5) surgical mask; (6) face shield + surgical mask; (7) N95 respirator or equivalent (i.e., KN95 mask).

UCLA study touts effectiveness of masks in reducing COVID-19 spread

 

[WanderingPilgrim]

I don’t see the masks being helpful either. I think they are mostly a placebo for people to feel safe when the media keeps pushing fear and hysteria onto the masses. I "did’ hear on Relevant Radio yesterday, I believe, a Pediatrician or Family Practitioner was talking about an increase of children coming in with bacterial infections and worse because of frequent mask wearing. These were for the cloth and surgical paper masks (which are what most people and kids are wearing). The constant mask wearing leads to health problems all on it’s own, unrelated to coronavirus.

 

[Cathoholic]

I believe, a Pediatrician or Family Practitioner was talking about an increase of children coming in with bacterial infections and worse because of frequent mask wearing. These were for the cloth and surgical paper masks (which are what most people and kids are wearing). The constant mask wearing leads to health problems all on it’s own, unrelated to coronavirus.

Excellent points WanderingPilgrim.

Not just medical problems but dental too. Dentists have told us about “mask mouth”.

This is one of the problems that gets IGNORED by maskophiles.

They IGNORE the risks and pretend chronic mandated societal mask wearing is all upside.

And of course chronic mandated societal mask wearing is NOT all upside.

There are PROBLEMS with this that rarely get presented when they are “evangelizing” mask usage.

 

[ProVobis]

This is one of the problems that gets IGNORED by maskophiles.

Is this worse than the virus contract?

 

[ProVobis]

I don’t see the masks being helpful either.

I think by now they would have determined the odds of virus contract between people who all wear masks, some of whom wear masks, etc. The virus is so tiny one needs an electron microscope to see it so how can you know whether the mask works or not?

 

[tomarin]

I wonder if @Cathoholic would like to address this. Are you opposed to surgeons wearing masks during surgery, Cathoholic?

 

[Cathoholic]

tomarin . . .

Are you opposed to surgeons wearing masks during surgery, Cathoholic?

No. I am not even opposed to people wearing masks in society.

Where did you get the idea that I might be opposed to surgeons wearing masks?

 

[tomarin]

Because you seem to believe, based on your many threads and posts, that masks provide no benefit to people looking to avoid spreading disease, especially Covid 19. I’m just trying to square that with why surgeons wear masks during surgery, if they’re as ineffective as you allege.

 

[DeniseNY]

maskophiles.

This is really unnecesary and honestly, a bit juvenile. If you disagree with people being proponents of masks, that’s fine but no one who wears a mask or wishes others would wear them are really fond of them. We’d all rather go back to a point where masks weren’t needed.

 

[ProVobis]

“Researchers say exposure to respiratory droplets contribute greatly to the spread of COVID-19. ”

This is from your article. Sort of contradicts what you’re saying.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

But if you don’t have an N95 mask, at least wear something to contain your exhalations.

Even if you had it and are recovered?

That is an unproven conclusion from the (true) scientific fact that some cloth barriers can break up droplets to smaller size. They are still better than nothing.

Since the majority of viruses are riding on respiratory droplets, most of them are filtered out by an N95 mask.

You do know those droplets evaporate in a short period of time? Experiment for you: sprinkle a few drops of water on your kitchen counter? How long do they take to evaporate? You may notice that smaller droplets disappear faster than larger droplets. Do you somehow think droplets behave differently in a mask? What do you think happens to the virus particles when the droplets they are in evaporate? The CDC has already acknowledged that the virus can exist in aerosolized form as well as in droplets.

This is the part no supportive study has a measurement for.

…That’s more misinformation.

With that statement, you just wiped 100 years of scientific study off the face of the earth. If said science regarding masks didn’t exist, if said science is “misinformation” to use your word, what business did Dr. Fauci have saying what he said on March 8 on 60 Minutes? What scientific evidence was presented to Dr Fauci after March 8 that caused him and the CDC to change their minds?

I’m just trying to square that with why surgeons wear masks during surgery, if they’re as ineffective as you allege.

Doctors and scientists have figured out that surgical masks don’t prevent respiratory particles being passed around. But they still wear them as a preventive against contact with bodily fluids. My dental hygienist wears both a surgical mask and a face shield. Yet her office still screens hard for symptoms because they know what they’re wearing isn’t going to prevent them from getting the virus if someone carries it into their office. So the hygienist told me her safeguards are to prevent contact with whatever accidentally gets ejected from my mouth.

“Researchers say exposure to respiratory droplets contribute greatly to the spread of COVID-19. ”

This is from your article. Sort of contradicts what you’re saying.

The virus can spread in aerosolized form as well as in droplets. This is important because droplets evaporate then we’re left with the aerosolized particles either in masks or on surfaces.

Wash your hands. Don’t touch your face in public. Take care of your health. Address your comorbidities. Protect the elderly. Wear masks if required, but no one should place any trust in cloth and surgical masks.

 

[WanderingPilgrim]

Well if we can’t prove beyond a doubt that they work, then they should be optional. Especially since there are other health problems that come from frequent and regular mask wearing.

 

[ProVobis]

You may notice that smaller droplets disappear faster than larger droplets.

You depend on the naked eye on which to base your conclusions? Water molecules always surround small particles. I’d rather study the probabilities of virus contract with just one person wearing a mask, all wearing a mask, social distance, etc.