Major Study Finds Masks Don’t Reduce COVID-19 Infection Rates

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tomarin said:
Because you seem to believe, based on your many threads and posts, that masks provide no benefit to people looking to avoid spreading disease, especially Covid 19. I’m just trying to square that with why surgeons wear masks during surgery, if they’re as ineffective as you allege.
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You are mixing apples and oranges.

Medical personnel under trained, strict controlled circumstances, does not equal
MANDATED societal universal masking up with all that such entails.

If you have read my posts as you say,
you know I wear masks at appropriate times,
you know I have said they are effective mitigators (not preventers),
you know that I have differentiated between medical personnel and the wide swath of society,
you know that I have been in favor of people choosing to utilize masking or not,
you know that I have been against Government MANDATES without proof,
and you know that I am opposed to the politicization of mask wearing.

So WHY frame your question the way you did?
 
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I haven’t read ALL your posts, just SOME of them. Perhaps the title threads mask some of the nuances of your argument.
 
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Zzyzx_Road said:
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LeafByNiggle:
That is an unproven conclusion from the (true) scientific fact that some cloth barriers can break up droplets to smaller size. They are still better than nothing.
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LeafByNiggle said:
Since the majority of viruses are riding on respiratory droplets, most of them are filtered out by an N95 mask.
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You do know those droplets evaporate in a short period of time? Experiment for you: sprinkle a few drops of water on your kitchen counter? How long do they take to evaporate? You may notice that smaller droplets disappear faster than larger droplets. Do you somehow think droplets behave differently in a mask? What do you think happens to the virus particles when the droplets they are in evaporate? The CDC has already acknowledged that the virus can exist in aerosolized form as well as in droplets.
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The CDC has also said that masks help. I trust them more than I trust a 5th grade science experiment.
LeafByNiggle said:
…That’s more misinformation.
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With that statement, you just wiped 100 years of scientific study off the face of the earth.
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No, I just dispute your claim that they were proven for many decades not to work against influenza and other viruses that pass via respiratory means. The Mayo Clinic agrees with me. (But perhaps the Mayo Clinic is unaware of the 100 years of scientific study on this issue. Perhaps you should contact them and straighten them out.)
If said science regarding masks didn’t exist, if said science is “misinformation” to use your word, what business did Dr. Fauci have saying what he said on March 8 on 60 Minutes? What scientific evidence was presented to Dr Fauci after March 8 that caused him and the CDC to change their minds?
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You will have to be more clear about which conspiracy theory you are pushing now.
 
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LeafByNiggle said:
You will have to be more clear about which conspiracy theory you are pushing now.
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Dr Fauci told us on March 8 that masks weren’t necessary for the general population. It’s right there in the transcript, no one needs a conspiracy theory to see that.
Right now, people should not be worried. There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often there are unintended consequences. People keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.
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First, what was the science behind Dr Fauci’s saying this on March 8?

Second, are you seriously going to have me believe he knew he was full of bull fertilizer that day? If the science is “misinformation” as you say, then what business did he have saying what he said that day?

Second, what science after March 8 convinced them to change their minds?

Simple answers Leaf. It’s telling they can’t be supplied with a straight face. Don’t need a conspiracy theory to see that.
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
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LeafByNiggle:
You will have to be more clear about which conspiracy theory you are pushing now.
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Dr Fauci told us on March 8 that masks weren’t necessary for the general population. It’s right there in the transcript, no one needs a conspiracy theory to see that.
Right now, people should not be worried. There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often there are unintended consequences. People keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.
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First, what was the science behind Dr Fauci’s saying this on March 8?
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The science was that March 8th was only 9 days after the very first covid death in the US. Now we have almost 2000 deaths per day. The virus is now 2000 times more prevalent than it was in early March. Of course it didn’t make sense for people in Texas to go around wearing masks when there were zero cases in Texas. But you best believe that the workers at those nursing homes where the virus was spreading were wearing masks!
If the science is “misinformation” as you say,…
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No, just your interpretation of the science is misinformation, and deadly misinformation at that.
Second, what science after March 8 convinced them to change their minds?
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Explained above.
 
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Cathoholic said:
they are effective mitigators (not preventers),
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Isn’t that enough for public health experts to recommend their use?

Besides, the report explicitly says:
The findings, however, should not be used to conclude that a recommendation for everyone to wear masks in the community would not be effective in reducing SARS-CoV-2 infections, because the trial did not test the role of masks in source control of SARS-CoV-2 infection.
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The study says nothing about masks being worn by people who are infected with COVID. Masks may prevent those with the virus from spreading it so much, even those who do not know they are infected.
 
As others have already noted, the study cited in the OP was specifically to evaluate the effectiveness of surgical masks in protecting the wearer. The study even cites that as a caveat in their conclusions. The study says that it says nothing at all about the effectiveness of preventing the wearer from spreading the virus to others. However the US public health officials have been saying all along that the primary benefit of masks is in preventing infected people from spreading the virus. Only recently has the CDC added the advice that it might even protect the wearer from infection too, but that correlation is much weaker than the primary one. In fact the Danish study also found a small, and perhaps statistically insignificant benefit to the wearer.

The point is, the title of this thread is too general. The Danish study only addressed the weaker half of the mask benefit. The stronger half remains solid science, and the recommendation of all public health officials. Do not take the headline too seriously.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The science was that March 8th was only 9 days after the very first covid death in the US. Now we have almost 2000 deaths per day. The virus is now 2000 times more prevalent than it was in early March. Of course it didn’t make sense for people in Texas to go around wearing masks when there were zero cases in Texas. But you best believe that the workers at those nursing homes where the virus was spreading were wearing masks!
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As of March 8, we already knew how bad it could get. We had already seen Wuhan hit, we had already seen cruise ships hit (did you already forget about the Diamond Princess?), we had already seen Italy hit, we had already seen long term care facilities in Washington state hit, we had already seen people who left Wuhan for the US even after Trump’s attempted shutdown on January 31. In other words, we knew all this was very possible here. Maybe they didn’t know just how bad it could get, but they knew it was bad.

Dr Fauci had access to far better information and far better connections than you and me, yet he still said what he said that day and no amount of excuse making on anyone’s part will diminish that. Again, what was the science that allowed him to say that? You say it doesn’t exist which implies that Dr Fauci must have made that up out of nothing.

It’s like with the elderly in long term care facilities: we knew with conviction as of March 15 that Covid-19 was very bad news for the elderly. If ordinary citizens could see that on March 15, there is no way the authorities didn’t know that as of that date. They didn’t even need access to inside information or conspiracy theories to know that.

You keep wanting to memory hole all of this. It took you months to admit that just maybe Cuomo’s infamous order might have been a mistake. Now you’re playing the same “didn’t know” defense card for Dr Fauci’s March 8 statements. smh
 
Cathoholic on masks . . .
they are effective mitigators (not preventers),
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Dovekin said:
Isn’t that enough for public health experts to recommend their use?
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Of course it is.

And I have not had an issue with “recomending” masks (whatever a “mask” is).

But this has gone waaay beyond “recommending masks”.
 
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Evidence Mounts that Focused Protection Is Right​

Indeed, the evidence continues to mount that those who advocate for focused protection have been right about their interpretation of the science for months. Like other public health experts including the World Health Organization and Dr. Anthony Fauci before he reversed himself, Atlas has long pointed out that the preponderance of better-quality evidence about masks shows mandates for the general public to wear them accomplish no significant public health value.

Just this week a large-scale Danish study was finally released. This randomized controlled trial, the highest-quality scientific study available, found that those who wore masks were not statistically less likely to contract COVID-19 than those who did not wear masks.

As The Spectator UK pointed out, “The results of the Danmask-19 trial mirror other reviews into influenza-like illnesses. Nine other trials looking at the efficacy of masks (two looking at healthcare workers and seven at community transmission) have found that masks make little or no difference to whether you get influenza or not.”

Those who say these results are because “my mask protects you, and your mask protects me” need to take a long and hard look at the fact that countries, states, and cities with near-universal mask-wearing have the same patterns of COVID spread. “No matter how strictly mask laws are enforced nor the level of mask compliance the population follows, cases all fall and rise around the same time,” notes a recent Federalist roundup of such examples. This is likely why Fauci, who criticizes Atlas’s statements publicly, doesn’t wear masks when the cameras aren’t on.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Atlas Was Right About Immune Response​

Atlas has consistently stood against depictions of data that encouraged a hysterical response to COVID. . . .
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.

These attacks against Dr. Atlas are political. They are not “science-based”.

The psuedo-scientific political attacks are shrouded in science terms. But they are still political.
 
Zzyzx_Road said:
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LeafByNiggle:
The science was that March 8th was only 9 days after the very first covid death in the US. Now we have almost 2000 deaths per day. The virus is now 2000 times more prevalent than it was in early March. Of course it didn’t make sense for people in Texas to go around wearing masks when there were zero cases in Texas. But you best believe that the workers at those nursing homes where the virus was spreading were wearing masks!
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As of March 8, we already knew how bad it could get. We had already seen Wuhan hit, we had already seen cruise ships hit (did you already forget about the Diamond Princess?)
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Infections in Wuhan and on the Diamond Princess does not mean people in Texas need to wear masks. That was true then and it is true now. What is different is that now Texas has 1.14 million total cases and over 20,000 deaths. Now people should be wearing masks. That is not a change in science. It is a change in the conditions.
In other words, we knew all this was very possible here.
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That still does not mean we should have advised the general public at that time to go around wearing masks.
Again, what was the science that allowed him to say that?
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Again, the science has not changed. The conditions have.
You keep wanting to memory hole all of this. It took you months to admit that just maybe Cuomo’s infamous order might have been a mistake. Now you’re playing the same “didn’t know” defense card for Dr Fauci’s March 8 statements. smh
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Not a correct characterization of what I said. Dr. Fauci has been right all along.
 
@NotContagious I see you liked my post on N95 masks, there is a reason these masks are not effective on spreading shedding virus. Masks without the facility to emit shed virii are more effective. Masks are extremely useful in limiting virus spread.

Coronavirus is extremely contagious.
In United States of America, from Jan 3 to 3:59pm CET, 20 November 2020, there have been 11,413,788 confirmed cases of COVID-19 with 248,571 deaths.

Globally
56,623,643
confirmed cases and 1,355,963
deaths


El Paso

 
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LeafByNiggle said:
Not a correct characterization of what I said. Dr. Fauci has been right all along.
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On March 8, he was right.
Today, he is right.

There’s an inherent contradiction there. The circumstances didn’t change. If masking was the thing to do, why wasn’t it urged from the beginning? They could have prepared us for the coming cases. If it retards the spread as it is evangelized to do, then why not tell us to mask up back in March?
 
humilityseeker. Do you have a couple of links on N-95 masks being so inneffective at stopping virions from getting out from an infected user?

I was not aware of that.

I knew about other limitations, but I was not aware of that until I too read it from you.

Thanks in advance.
 
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@leosfeetq . . .
The study out of Wuhan showed that a small percentage of the most sick wore glasses, at a an order of magnitude below the population of the general public who wear glasses.
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I wasn’t aware of that either.

Interesting.

Do you have a link for that please (as I would like to know more)?
 
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Interesting.

I wonder if this will translate into glasses protecting the wearer against being sneezed in the face with a resultant high viral load being tossed into their eyes?

Thanks for the link leosfeetq.
 
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I constantly see people pulling their masks down to sneeze or cough.

I don’t blame them, I wouldn’t want to sneeze into something strapped to my face that I have to leave there either.
 
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