Malachi Martin

[Shoshana]

exactly!! it makes me wonder why people want to destroy the Church or why they hate the RCC.

Because it contains the Fullness of the Truth and we have the Eucharist unsurpassed anywhere else (on equal footing with the Orthodox).

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

exactly!! it makes me wonder why people want to destroy the Church or why they hate the RCC.

The answer is that the root cause is Satan. This becomes so clear when studying all the persecutions of the Church. There is so much insidiousness, so much falsehood, and so much raw malice and hate.

Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich tells us that many of those hurling insults and stones at Christ as he walked to Calvary became temporarily possessed. The devil has not stopped attacking the Church Christ founded in every way possible since then.

 

[Pro_Domina]

Well, in the OT, the priests were doing satanic sacrifices in the temple under the ground.

Who is to say that in some places some bad priests aren’t doing the same.

Remember, Corruptio Optimus Pesimus.

Rome is not full of saints you know.

 

[Chancellor]

Well, in the OT, the priests were doing satanic sacrifices in the temple under the ground.

Who is to say that in some places some bad priests aren’t doing the same.

Remember, Corruptio Optimus Pesimus.

Rome is not full of saints you know.

Was Corruptio Optimus Pesimus the vatican bank scancal? money laundering and all that?

 

[KingAlfred]

MM is exploiting his former connections to the Church for personal gain and at the expense of the Church’s image and reputation. This is most nefarious, IMHO.

 

[puzzleannie]

I wonder if this writer had been named Mike Martin or Tom Martin would there be as much controversey about him. If he was not baptized with that name, he was a genius for using it as a pen name. Since this thread has followed the track I anticipated, different posters offer wild surmises and guesses utterly w/o source or attribution, and others offering responses equally unfounded and unattributed, I’m gone. I can’t wade through another “let’s all jump on a dead guy and pound him” thread. my thanks and admiration to one person who at least posted one source, albeit an interview, not a research work.

 

[mercygate]

I wonder if this writer had been named Mike Martin or Tom Martin would there be as much controversey about him. If he was not baptized with that name, he was a genius for using it as a pen name. Since this thread has followed the track I anticipated, different posters offer wild surmises and guesses utterly w/o source or attribution, and others offering responses equally unfounded and unattributed, I’m gone. I can’t wade through another “let’s all jump on a dead guy and pound him” thread. my thanks and admiration to one person who at least posted one source, albeit an interview, not a research work.

Martin’s family called him “Bobbie.”

 

[Fran65]

I can’t wade through another “let’s all jump on a dead guy and pound him” thread.

My apologies if you thought that was what I doing. It certainly wasn’t my intention when I posted my opinion.

I don’t think that somebody being dead means that we can’t ask questions about his work, or offer an opinion.

To the person who asked me what weapons MM gave to anti-catholics I would answer that to publicise outside the Church his concerns and beliefs about the ‘wrong turns’ it was taking demonstrates a lack of discretion and loyalty to the Church. If I had concerns about my Church I would raise them in private and within the Church.

From what I have read, MM believed that many senior members were aware of the allegations and dangers. If that was (is) the case then they are dealing with it. The laity only need to know of potential dangers and weakening of the Church in respect of what Priests are saying and how Catholic practice is changing so that we can stay true to the Catholic Faith.

We (and especially anti catholics) do not need to know lurid details and allegations regarding specific events and practices. Wanting to know those details may be indicative of an unhealthy interest in the sensational or scandalous.

Knowing the details does not change our practice because we know that our Church is under attack. We pray daily that God deliver us from evil, we pray for the pope and his intentions at every mass. We pray that we do God’s will, not our own and those prayers do not become ‘effective’ with more knowledge of who did what, where, when and to whom.

Karen

 

[Robster7]

Re Malachi Martin, entertaining as his writing may be, I find that there is enough controversy, suspicion, and ambiguity about his background and alleged inside information to distrust anything he writes. There are plenty of more reliable Catholic resources that you don’t need to rely on his stuff.

 

[anon52328184]

i agree. the average Catholic probably shouldn’t be reading his books.
someone outside the Church would find them more intriguing. there are so many people out there that want to read about the dark side of the Church history, and they really don’t care about truth.

 

[KingAlfred]

MM is simply ‘cashing in’ on his dubious clerical connections. To me that makes buying his junky books that much more ill-advised. He’s making a fast buck at the expense of the Church. No way. I’ll never give him a thin dime.

 

[puzzleannie]

My apologies if you thought that was what I doing. It certainly wasn’t my intention when I posted my opinion.

I don’t think that somebody being dead means that we can’t ask questions about his work, or offer an opinion.

Karen

not necessarily, but making bald negative statements about his work, w/o citations to back them up, is detraction and character assassination.

 

[Fran65]

I also see MM as sensationalist.

Sensationalist: someone who uses exaggerated or lurid material in order to gain public attention.

According to wikipedia, his “books, both fictional and non-fictional, frequently present a dark view of the present state of the world, invoking dark spirits, conspiracy, betrayal, heresy, widespread sexual perversion, self-advancement, and demonic possession, each being asserted as rife throughout the Catholic Church, from its lowest levels up to its highest.”

My argument, in a previous post is that none of those allegations needed to be published. One has to ask why they were published? In my opinion, writing that type of material and publishing it gains public attention. MM could have published them anonymously, or written and published in a quieter, more reserved and more measured manner. More importantly he could have fought his battles in private within the Church. That would have meant not “washing dirty linen in public”. In my opinon, there was no benefit or reason for doing that. My reasons are in my previous post. Therefore, the behaviour could be seen as a desire for public attention.

As for lurid. The detail in MM’s Hostage to the Devil is shocking. Its a book that I started to read and then realised that all it was doing was upsetting me and I was reading it for entertainment and a thrill, so I threw it away.

As Catholics we know that demonic activity takes place, we know that demon possession occurs, and we know that exorcism is available. Why do we and non catholics need to know the detail of specific cases then? Is God’s word and the teachings of the Church not enough to persuade us to Faith?

In my mind, some of what he wrote damages further the Catholic Church in the minds of the rest of society and gives weapons to anti-catholics.

Stating that “Anybody who is acquainted with the state of affairs in the Vatican in the last 35 years is well aware that the prince of darkness has had and still has his surrogates in the court of St. Peter in Rome.” is nothing less than saying that satan has entered the Vatican and our Holy Mother Church. That is damaging. There are surely enough non catholics saying that Catholicism is satanic without one of our priests giving them evidence of satan inside the church? Many people cannot tell the difference between something being satanic and something being attacked by satan. Describing in fictional form the vatican being dedicated to satan and then saying that it actually happened *is *damaging.

I am not engaging in character assassination. I have said that some of MM’s public behaviour, his writing and his interviews is sensationalist and damaging to the Church. As a human being, like everyone else, he was fallible and, would, like me and the rest of us, make mistakes. I have not questioned his honesty, integrity, sincerity or faith. I would question his judgement, which I guess is part of someone’s character. That’s not character assassination.

Detraction? What I have said may be detracting. I need to think about whether what I have said is justified. Detraction is unjust.

Although it could be argued that MM’s writing was itself detraction of the Church - if it was unjust.

Karen

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

As for lurid. The detail in MM’s Hostage to the Devil is shocking. Its a book that I started to read and then realised that all it was doing was upsetting me and I was reading it for entertainment and a thrill, so I threw it away.

As Catholics we know that demonic activity takes place, we know that demon possession occurs, and we know that exorcism is available. Why do we and non catholics need to know the detail of specific cases then? Is God’s word and the teachings of the Church not enough to persuade us to Faith?

Karen

I took out these two paragraphs from your post, Karen, because I wanted to touch on this. I hope you don’t mind.

The book you are referring to was enlightening. The case details are what were great. They showed the natural progression of demonic activity in the lives of those individuals. Though he did insert some sensationalism - that is, in pitting the exorcist against the demon and the locking of the wills, the cases were meant to show exactly what he meant them to.

It’s not pretty. It’s not normal. It’s not godly. But, it seems very accurate. And I think we need a reminder every now and then of the dangers that we Christians face against our enemy. It’s certainly not for everybody. I don’t blame you for putting the book down and throwing it away. Just realize that even though it’s an ugly part of this world - it is still relevant.

I can safely say that in each of the cases he documented, there were lessons for all us. That is, the deception of our enemy and the relative quiet with which he works should make us sit down and reflect upon our lives to ensure that we don’t give the Devil a foothold into our lives. And Malachi inserted prayers at the end for us to pray. All in all, I think it is/was a great book.

Just my reflections, sister.

Peace…

MW

 

[Shoshana]

I took out these two paragraphs from your post, Karen, because I wanted to touch on this. I hope you don’t mind.

The book you are referring to was enlightening. The case details are what were great. They showed the natural progression of demonic activity in the lives of those individuals. Though he did insert some sensationalism - that is, in pitting the exorcist against the demon and the locking of the wills, the cases were meant to show exactly what he meant them to.

It’s not pretty. It’s not normal. It’s not godly. But, it seems very accurate. And I think we need a reminder every now and then of the dangers that we Christians face against our enemy. It’s certainly not for everybody. I don’t blame you for putting the book down and throwing it away. Just realize that even though it’s an ugly part of this world - it is still relevant.

I can safely say that in each of the cases he documented, there were lessons for all us. That is, the deception of our enemy and the relative quiet with which he works should make us sit down and reflect upon our lives to ensure that we don’t give the Devil a foothold into our lives. And Malachi inserted prayers at the end for us to pray. All in all, I think it is/was a great book.

Just my reflections, sister.

Peace…

MW

This is the closest to the Truth about the book ‘Hostage to the Devil’…having been part fo a team in a real exorcism, many of this is true (some details were exagerrated in the book). If my memory serves me right, the one case was a man caught up with New Age. His possession was one of the deepest…

There are different degrees of exorcisms…rare as it is, full possession is very, very rare…

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

This is the closest to the Truth about the book ‘Hostage to the Devil’…having been part fo a team in a real exorcism, many of this is true (some details were exagerrated in the book). If my memory serves me right, the one case was a man caught up with New Age. His possession was one of the deepest…

There are different degrees of exorcisms…rare as it is, full possession is very, very rare…

Yes, having been part of many exorcisms myself, the stories he recounted seem very believable. I believe what you are referring to is a young priest who accepted some new age ideas, left the church and started his own little new age group. And that’s what I was getting to. The deceptions of our enemy are so subtle - creeping along at a snails pace so that before we know it we have given the Devil a foothold that is hard to get rid of.

And of all the exorcism books that I have in my personal library, this book by Malachi is by far the best at conveying what I’ve described above. I haven’t read any of his other works so I can’t say yea or nay about that material, but with this book - he hit the goldmine.

The most difficult story for me was the “girl-fixer”. These stories can touch a nerve that you never knew you had. It pains my soul to read them. But our Christian lives aren’t a bed of roses. This world is filled with darkness and light. If we as Christians totally ignore the darkness we just might find ourselves on the outside of our faith looking in.

Peace…

MW

 

[Shoshana]

Yes, having been part of many exorcisms myself, the stories he recounted seem very believable.

Absolutely the truth. Until you have ‘seen’ evil, ‘smelled’ evil, been physcially hurt by evil and even perceived a great evil presence that rose to the ceiling, one may just not understand his book…

I believe what you are referring to is a young priest who accepted some new age ideas, left the church and started his own little new age group. And that’s what I was getting to. The deceptions of our enemy are so subtle - creeping along at a snails pace so that before we know it we have given the Devil a foothold that is hard to get rid of.

That is the scary part. So many people are into New Age and are slowly imbedding themselves into something they may find hard to get out of. (I am confirming what youjust said) Moira Noonan relates her deep expereince with New Age and needed to be exorcised…scary stuff because most priests do not seem to even care…

And of all the exorcism books that I have in my personal library, this book by Malachi is by far the best at conveying what I’ve described above.

Agreed. but Malachi must have been a researcher also to keep such a detailed account of the five cases. But the book is not for everyone and on the whole, I would advise many not to read it. Although, I would not volunteer to be in another case scenario, I would not have missed the one case that I witnessed to (which lasted for 5 years)…it was the worst but also the best experience of my life. I so realized God’s word is alive and the Evil One’s word is dead.

The most difficult story for me was the “girl-fixer”. These stories can touch a nerve that you never knew you had. It pains my soul to read them. But our Christian lives aren’t a bed of roses. This world is filled with darkness and light. If we as Christians totally ignore the darkness we just might find ourselves on the outside of our faith looking in.

This whole situation is perplexing to many…

Peace…

And also with you…

MW

 

[system]

MM is simply ‘cashing in’ on his dubious clerical connections. To me that makes buying his junky books that much more ill-advised. He’s making a fast buck at the expense of the Church. No way. I’ll never give him a thin dime.

This is the second time you spoke of him in the present “living” tense. The man is dead, as has been mentioned numerous times on this thread.

I have listened to several interviews of MM, and I have read Hostage to the Devil and, in comparison, read Fr. Amorth’s book as well.

I know that alot of what he said, about the enemies of the church actually being within the church is too shocking for many Catholics to believe - so they choose denial. I not only believe it - I have seen it.

I know enough about the man to know he has gained a number of detractors AFTER his death. (no doubt many of them wouldn’t dare tussle with that intellect while he was alive!)

I also know, he has been deliberately misquoted and misrepresented since his death. I know this because a friend of mine has actually dug up the original published interviews and articles from 30-40 years ago that are now being misquoted on the web, These people assume they are safe in this misquoting because the original sources are so rare.

So just keep in mind, those of you casting stones and aspersions without any backup, that there will always be some folks out there who have the real facts.

 

[mercygate]

This is the second time you spoke of him in the present “living” tense. The man is dead, as has been mentioned numerous times on this thread.

I have listened to several interviews of MM, and I have read Hostage to the Devil and, in comparison, read Fr. Amorth’s book as well.

I know that alot of what he said, about the enemies of the church actually being within the church is too shocking for many Catholics to believe - so they choose denial. I not only believe it - I have seen it.

I know enough about the man to know he has gained a number of detractors AFTER his death. (no doubt many of them wouldn’t dare tussle with that intellect while he was alive!)

I also know, he has been deliberately misquoted and misrepresented since his death. I know this because a friend of mine has actually dug up the original published interviews and articles from 30-40 years ago that are now being misquoted on the web, These people assume they are safe in this misquoting because the original sources are so rare.

So just keep in mind, those of you casting stones and aspersions without any backup, that there will always be some folks out there who have the real facts.

Paul VI said the “smoke of Satan” was “in the Church” (paraphrasing). Dr. Martin knew that.

And yeah: the Malachi Martin I knew bore little resemblance to the Malachi Martin I read about around here.

Still, he was not very forthcoming about his personal situation regarding the SJ and the Vatican. I think he used that to keep people “interested.”

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

Paul VI said the “smoke of Satan” was “in the Church” (paraphrasing). Dr. Martin knew that.

And yeah: the Malachi Martin I knew bore little resemblance to the Malachi Martin I read about around here.

Still, he was not very forthcoming about his personal situation regarding the SJ and the Vatican. I think he used that to keep people “interested.”

And, frankly, that’s just the problem - there’s no way it can’t compromise his credibility.

That and doing interviews with people like UFO nuts.

As for his words being twisted, perhaps, but I’ve listened to the interviews myself and he said some strange, and contradictory things - although MOST of what he said was accurate. And articulate.

He never provided any evidence that the “Enthronement” occurred, and, if you read his comments on it, I think it can be deduced it was a supposition on his part. So, to present it as fact is irresponsible.

I think I have a pretty balanced view of Fr. Martin, after reading about everything he did and said (I’ve read ever book save Keys of This Blood).