M
Margarite
Guest
I woul
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agr4028
Guest
The crux of this thread, is that being an altar boy potentially leads to priesthood. So, a parent who nudges a son to altar service in hopes of growing a priest, is asking that child (before they’re old enough to sort things out for themselves) to make a sacrifice that said parent wasn’t willing to make themselves.
Fire cadets and football players aren’t asked to sacrifice marriage, family, and material pursuits for their profession.
Z
zagjames
Guest
Who said its necessarily a sacrafice. Most priest consider their vocation and thus their marital status a gift in life. St. Paul tells us that not all can manage to live celebatly but for those who can, should.
And parents who push their children into FireCadets in hopes of making them into fire officers are asking them to make physical sacrafices they werent willing to make (barring the few exceptions of parents who are fire fighters).
Parents who push their kids into boy scouts, young marines, jrotc are pushing their kids towards military service, a physical sacrafice many of those parents werent willing to make.
Parents do all of these things because they see it as being a good path for their children to be exposed to, and at the very least they know their kids will learn a thing or two. Is that so bad. From a very young age parents can see what strengths their child is developing. They then act on those interests.
Personally I have never heard of a parent encouraging their child to altar serve so they can become a priest. I have heard of parents who encourage it because it is a good way for a young boy to learn how to serve God, and the Church. And because it helps them learn more about their faith, and be more willing to live it.
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Spiller
Guest
Your comments make absolutely no sense. Altar serving or not, the boy won’t become a priest without a vocation from God. Let’s look at the most common path for priests in my diocese back in the old days.
As was mentioned here if a teacher (usually a sister) noticed something “special” about a boy she would not only encourage him to serve Mass, but she would also make a special effort to answer his questions – to guide him spiritually.
When it came time for high school, the best of the best were allowed to go not to the local Catholic high school, but to the high school seminary. Did all become priests or even go on to seminary from there? No way – but they received a world-class education. Most of that is gone now. Largely because people like yourself who equate becoming a priest to “sacrificing” marriage, family, and material pursuits. That’s a remarkable comment…
Finally I would guess most priests’ dads did not become priests themselves because they were not given that vocation from God – yet it did not cause them to block one for their own sons.
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Spiller
Guest
Bingo – AND IF there is a vocation, it is nurtured…
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Cristiano
Guest
I am one. Now you have a one person statistic.
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Margarite
Guest
I guess my last post got kind of demolished,
Anyways, I know that my brothers would never be allowed to serve with girls. My parents do not want them to get the wrong idea about girls being able to serve at the altar as priests. Women priests are against the Church’s teachings, and altar girls just confuse the issue.
(My family also thinks that women should not be EM, but that is just us)
I have two brothers, Hans is 13 and Ian is 11
Hans has served only once, he served at Ian’s First Holy Communion.
We had to have Ian’s first Holy Communion when we were on vacation to Florida, we made a little side trip to Birmingham and the Sister Sevants had a special mass just for my brother.
Our parish priest in Las Vegas refused to let him recieve on the tongue with his class. (A few months later that priest was exposed for having stolen hundreds of thousands of $$$ and for having a few girlfriends)
My brother Ian has never served at mass.
My brothers and parents both want them to serve, but they refuse to subject my brothers to the poorly run service that is evident at our local parish. They also refuse to let them serve with girls.
The servers at our parish hardly know what they are doing, and they are constantly talking and laughing amoungst themselves. This is HORRIBLE!
We were getting a TLM here, but the priest was transferred to DC to work in the Embassy (I think that is what it is called). So now I don’t see any hope for them in the near future.
This is sad! My father was the principal of a Fraternity school in KS for a while when I was a child and he said that the boys who were altar boys (most boys served at least once a month) treated it as an honor. It was sort of like being in the military, there were all these different levels and the older boys were in charge of the younger ones and the older ones were almost like deacons because they helped the priest allot. From there, it was natural for a boy to go to the seminary, or to marry. The boys had exposure to both worlds, they were altar boys sometimes, but they were also boyfriends, and athletes. They knew both worlds and could then make a more informed decision.
Nowadays, they only know the secular world, they don’t know the religious world, so they can’t make an informed decision and so they are biased towards marriage. That is part of the reason why there are bad marriages in the Church, and THE reason why we have no priests.
I hope I made sense.
I got to go.
Anyways, I know that my brothers would never be allowed to serve with girls. My parents do not want them to get the wrong idea about girls being able to serve at the altar as priests. Women priests are against the Church’s teachings, and altar girls just confuse the issue.
(My family also thinks that women should not be EM, but that is just us)
I have two brothers, Hans is 13 and Ian is 11
Hans has served only once, he served at Ian’s First Holy Communion.
We had to have Ian’s first Holy Communion when we were on vacation to Florida, we made a little side trip to Birmingham and the Sister Sevants had a special mass just for my brother.
Our parish priest in Las Vegas refused to let him recieve on the tongue with his class. (A few months later that priest was exposed for having stolen hundreds of thousands of $$$ and for having a few girlfriends)
My brother Ian has never served at mass.
My brothers and parents both want them to serve, but they refuse to subject my brothers to the poorly run service that is evident at our local parish. They also refuse to let them serve with girls.
The servers at our parish hardly know what they are doing, and they are constantly talking and laughing amoungst themselves. This is HORRIBLE!
We were getting a TLM here, but the priest was transferred to DC to work in the Embassy (I think that is what it is called). So now I don’t see any hope for them in the near future.
This is sad! My father was the principal of a Fraternity school in KS for a while when I was a child and he said that the boys who were altar boys (most boys served at least once a month) treated it as an honor. It was sort of like being in the military, there were all these different levels and the older boys were in charge of the younger ones and the older ones were almost like deacons because they helped the priest allot. From there, it was natural for a boy to go to the seminary, or to marry. The boys had exposure to both worlds, they were altar boys sometimes, but they were also boyfriends, and athletes. They knew both worlds and could then make a more informed decision.
Nowadays, they only know the secular world, they don’t know the religious world, so they can’t make an informed decision and so they are biased towards marriage. That is part of the reason why there are bad marriages in the Church, and THE reason why we have no priests.
I hope I made sense.
I got to go.
C
Ceil-1
Guest
This seems to be a common attitude among abusive priests. I am always immediately suspect of one who has negative reactions to acts of devotion.
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bilop
Guest
Another point about altar service and vocations that has not been mentioned it, that in the old Mass, the role of the server is much larger.
I have been taught to serve the TLM by my brother-in-law (a priest) so he can say the Mass privately when he is on vacation. So, I have first become an “altar boy” at age 36
From this I have noticed how different the role of server is in the old Mass. He is necessary. He is the only one besides the Priest who speaks at Mass. And, he gets to learn the Latin, which most of the congregation, including his parents, probably didn’t know.
Serving the old Mass is just so much “cooler” than the new. It is no wonder it was attractive to boys and a source of many vocations.
I truly believ the old Mass coming back will be the start of a renaissance for the Church.
God Bless
I have been taught to serve the TLM by my brother-in-law (a priest) so he can say the Mass privately when he is on vacation. So, I have first become an “altar boy” at age 36
From this I have noticed how different the role of server is in the old Mass. He is necessary. He is the only one besides the Priest who speaks at Mass. And, he gets to learn the Latin, which most of the congregation, including his parents, probably didn’t know.
Serving the old Mass is just so much “cooler” than the new. It is no wonder it was attractive to boys and a source of many vocations.
I truly believ the old Mass coming back will be the start of a renaissance for the Church.
God Bless
S
Spiller
Guest
Please don’t bring this garbage into this thread.
C
Cristiano
Guest
It is not just you. The whole Church thinks that women cannot be EM (Eucharistic Ministers, I assume)I guess my last post got kind of demolished,
…
(My family also thinks that women should not be EM, but that is just us)
…
S
Spiller
Guest
Not really. In the Pauline Mass it’s possible for a server to carry the processional cross or a torch; to assist with 6 incensations; to hold th Sacramentary at the opening and closing prayers; to read the intercessions (or even the OT and/or NT Epistle); to set-up the altar; to assit the priest in receiving the gifts; to assist with the lavabo; to ring the sanctus bells; to set-out the ablution cup and to “clear” the altar.Another point about altar service and vocations that has not been mentioned it, that in the old Mass, the role of the server is much larger.
I have been taught to serve the TLM by my brother-in-law (a priest) so he can say the Mass privately when he is on vacation. So, I have first become an “altar boy” at age 36
From this I have noticed how different the role of server is in the old Mass. He is necessary. He is the only one besides the Priest who speaks at Mass. And, he gets to learn the Latin, which most of the congregation, including his parents, probably didn’t know.
Serving the old Mass is just so much “cooler” than the new. It is no wonder it was attractive to boys and a source of many vocations.
I truly believ the old Mass coming back will be the start of a renaissance for the Church.
God Bless
That will keep a server (or two) MOVING.
P
PatrickJT914
Guest
Being a Priest or a Deacon does not automatically mean that a boy serving at the altar wants to become one. Some people complain that the TLM was better at getting young boys to consider being a priest. I don’t think so. Whether or not it’s the extraordinary TLM or the ordinary Mass doesn’t really make that much of a difference. What does make a difference? Here’s a list of a few. (Some have already been addressed here on this thread)
- The parents need to encourage their sons, if they show an interest.
- The parents shouldn’t downplay the role of priest as being less than marriage and having children. The priesthood is a very noble vocation.
- The parents shouldn’t only say that having a successful career and lots of money is the only thing to strive for.
- The boy should want to be interested to begin with.
- There should a priest who shows and tells people that he loves his calling and wouldn’t change a thing.
- The parish should show in interest, encourage, support, pray for all who think they may have a call.
- Everybody involved in Religious Education should be aware of anybody they see having a desire to be a priest.
- We should come to the aid and defense of our priests. When politicians, the news media, movies, and other sources of evil or misguided Catholics attack our priests.
- We shouldn’t believe or be afraid too much of the paranonia of priests alledged to be child molesters.
- We shouldn’t expect our priests to be superhuman and demand at times way too much from them. Do we want them to be burned out and quit?
- We the laity should help our priests by getting off our lazy butts, quit bellyaching, having a “Let Father do it” attitude, stop hiding behind Church documents, it’s not “traditional” Catholics. Maybe what we should start to do is follow the 2nd Vatican Council and post-council documents. Especially the Degree on the Apostolate of the Laity. These documents are not meant to replace our priests, but to stand at times, side to side with him in support of our parishes and our spiritual lives.
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Spiller
Guest
- The parents need to stop their use of ABC and have more kids.
- The parents need to encourage their sons, if they show an interest.
1a. We need strong altar boy corps like the Knights of the Altar. - The parents shouldn’t downplay the role of priest as being less than marriage and having children. The priesthood is a very noble vocation.
- The parents shouldn’t only say that having a successful career and lots of money is the only thing to strive for.
- The boy should want to be interested to begin with. (axiomatic)
- There should a priest who shows and tells people that he loves his calling and wouldn’t change a thing. (ALL priests should)
- The parish should show in interest, encourage, support, pray for all who think they may have a call.
- Everybody involved in Religious Education should be aware of anybody they see having a desire to be a priest.
7a. More kids should be sent to Catholic schools.
7b. High school seminaries should be supported - We should come to the aid and defense of our priests. When politicians, the news media, movies, and other sources of evil or misguided Catholics attack our priests.
8a. Priest should generally have more security – better retirment, higher pay, etc. - We shouldn’t believe or be afraid too much of the paranonia of priests alledged to be child molesters.
- We shouldn’t expect our priests to be superhuman and demand at times way too much from them. Do we want them to be burned out and quit?
- We the laity should help our priests by getting off our lazy butts, quit bellyaching, having a “Let Father do it” attitude, stop hiding behind Church documents, it’s not “traditional” Catholics. Maybe what we should start to do is follow the 2nd Vatican Council and post-council documents. Especially the Degree on the Apostolate of the Laity. These documents are not meant to replace our priests, but to stand at times, side to side with him in support of our parishes and our spiritual lives.
S
Spiller
Guest
I remember when I was a LITTLE kid – maybe 4? There was a young priest in a black suit with a collar and maybe a dozen teen boys all in black pants and white dress shirts having a ball at Disneyland. Not nerdy/bookish looking guys either. Young MEN.
To this day I remember what the priest said to another adult. They were a Knights of the Altar group from a nearby parish.
Can you imagine that today?
To this day I remember what the priest said to another adult. They were a Knights of the Altar group from a nearby parish.
Can you imagine that today?
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PaixGioiaAmor
Guest
Are you kidding? Everyone would start saying “I hear that’s how these priests get their confidence … taking them to Disneyland.”
Now I do really have to wonder - what priest wears full clericals to Disneyland, and what kids wear their dress clothes there? You would think everyone would have been dressed down for the occasion.
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Spiller
Guest
Not back in about 1970 or so…
By 1972? Yeah, probably…
What I CAN imagine are male Protestant ministers in their khakis, Nikes and embroidered golf shirts taking a dozen boys similarly dressed to Disneyland…
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bilop
Guest
Yes, but in the old Mass it is like the servers are in on something special. Only they hear a lot of the prayers. In addition, the involvement is intellectual, learning the prayers, not just physical.
Also, in your average parish, the altar servers don’t do a lot of those things.
Just from my experience, as a boy I never wanted to be an altar boy, it seemed pointless. But, in the TLM, it is a critical role, and I think that is attractive to boys and young men.
God Bless
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agr4028
Guest
:clapping: :extrahappy:
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Lepanto
Guest
Wow, I’ve been a practicing Catholic all my life, and this is the first I’ve ever heard of the “Knights of the Altar.” What a great idea!
Thanks to Google, I found some interesting material on the Knights, even a Wikipedia entry on them. In the Wikipedia article, it says:
"In 1974, when K of A representatives gathered in Rome during its 35th anniversary that coincided with All Saints Day, Pope Pius XII sanctified boy servers in the Sacred Congregation to the Pontifical Work for Ecclesiastical Vocations when he said that ‘Mass servers as the first seminary.’ "
But of course Pius XII died in the 50s. Did the article mean Paul VI?
Here’s an incredible Knights of the Altar handbook. It’s like an amazing boy scouts manual for altar boys. Who knew this little treasure even existed anymore?
stjosephschurch.net/handbook.pdf
I found it on the website of a sedevacantist parish’s website, but a quick scan thru the handbook doesn’t reveal anything sedevacantist. The handbook was largely written pre-Vat2 by others, as it says in the acknowledgements.
Thanks to Google, I found some interesting material on the Knights, even a Wikipedia entry on them. In the Wikipedia article, it says:
"In 1974, when K of A representatives gathered in Rome during its 35th anniversary that coincided with All Saints Day, Pope Pius XII sanctified boy servers in the Sacred Congregation to the Pontifical Work for Ecclesiastical Vocations when he said that ‘Mass servers as the first seminary.’ "
But of course Pius XII died in the 50s. Did the article mean Paul VI?
Here’s an incredible Knights of the Altar handbook. It’s like an amazing boy scouts manual for altar boys. Who knew this little treasure even existed anymore?
stjosephschurch.net/handbook.pdf
I found it on the website of a sedevacantist parish’s website, but a quick scan thru the handbook doesn’t reveal anything sedevacantist. The handbook was largely written pre-Vat2 by others, as it says in the acknowledgements.
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