Male Servers Lead to Priests and Deacons

[PatrickJT914]

Hi Lepanto,
I too was unaware of such an organization. I’ve also been around for a few years. I checked out the link you posted and WOW!:bigyikes:. I only read a few paragraphs here and there,
and glanced at a few. But, what I saw was great. Why can’t we bring it back. It would have to be adapted to face today’s reality of girl altar servers. Instead of being called just the Knights of the Altar, why not The Knights AND Ladies of the Altar? There are values, duties, reverence, tasks, and others that are not gender specific. What harm could it cause? Wouldn’t one of the benefits,
be having young people more reverent? Feeling a sense of pride? and no doubt many others.

If, nobody answered you already about what Pope it was in 1974, Then allow me to give you that answer. It was Pope Paul VI. He reined until 1978, (The year of the three Popes)

 

[Lepanto]

It would have to be adapted to face today’s reality of girl altar servers. Instead of being called just the Knights of the Altar, why not The Knights AND Ladies of the Altar?

I’m afraid that would defeat the purpose of the Knights of the Altar and we’d be right back where we are now.

I’d rather have a distinct counterpart organizations for the girls. I think in the past there was a group called the “Young Ladies Altar Guild.” They were responsible for decorating, cleaning, and arranging the sanctuary and the altar (and before any feminists pounce on this, that would be a GREAT privilege and honor for any person!) Besides the way this comes across to feminists, however, some parents wouldn’t like it because their daughter wouldn’t be in the spotlight, plus it will require time outside of Mass.

 

[PatrickJT914]

I’m afraid that would defeat the purpose of the Knights of the Altar and we’d be right back where we are now.

I’d rather have a distinct counterpart organizations for the girls. I think in the past there was a group called the “Young Ladies Altar Guild.” They were responsible for decorating, cleaning, and arranging the sanctuary and the altar (and before any feminists pounce on this, that would be a GREAT privilege and honor for any person!) Besides the way this comes across to feminists, however, some parents wouldn’t like it because their daughter wouldn’t be in the spotlight, plus it will require time outside of Mass.

Let’s see how I can answer your post. First off, I’d like to say that I’m not a feminist supporter. There are some areas that have been ruined by the feminists. However, to be fair and to give credit where, credit is due. Not all boys want to be altar servers, so why should we deny the girls the opportunity and priviledge to serve the
Lord,the priest and the community? There have been times when the girls have done better than the boys. They have more reverence at times. Altar serving is a noble and honorable service. It’s not gender specific, there aren’t any physical demands that both sexes can’t do equally.
You know if, you think about it waiting at table, including the Table of the Lord has always been basically a woman’s job. So if they are depending on your viewpoint it’s either demeaning,sexist and degrading or a high honor (like Mary, the sister of Lazarus) serving the Lord. Besides doesn’t scripture say, “in Jesus, there is no slave or master, Jew or Greek, male or female” Also didn’t Jesus go against the religious establishment and elevated women to a higher status then what they were? Is not Mary Magdaline also considered an Apostle as well? Does not St. Paul recognize
and make good comments elevating, acknowledging them as leaders in their communities? Where were the “BRAVE” male Apostles, when Jesus was condemned and crucified? They were hiding in fear of the Jews, except St. John. All thoughout our 2000
years of Catholic faith there have been numerous accounts of women doing great things for our faith. Some have been made Doctors of the Church.
Lepanto, you mentioned about a Young Ladies Altar Guild. Yes, that could be another option available to them. But in my parish experience, we have an Altar Society, but unfortunately the ladies are getting up there in years. I’ve heard a couple of them say that they want newer and younger women, but as of now. I don’t think anybody has really joined.
Again let me elaborate that I’m not a feminist supporter. I don’t agree there should be female priests. However, why not Deaconesses? The precedent was established in the early church
Anyway I hope I answered your post satisfactorily.

As a side note: What can I do not to have some of my sentences break off? As you can see by some of them.

Thanks.

 

[Spiller]

Knights of the Altar groups also had Pages of the Altar – young boys who were in training to become Knights.

I always thought the best way to start a Knights of the Altar program would be to visit the local Catholic middle school and talk to the person in charge of boy’s physical education. Ask to speak to the groups as young men and just lay it out – perhaps supported by their coaches – a true call to serve. I think just about the perfect KofA coordinator would be a high school football coach in love with the Mass – ably supported by his pastor of course.

If you spent enough time picking the first 6-12 boys and trained them extremely well, within 2-3 years you’d have a tiger of a program by the tail!

I don’t think there needs to be as many rules as there are in that handbook – seems sorta silly in some cases – but some would have to be totally inviolable – like no girls.

 

[Margarite]

What normal boy of the age 7-14 wants to belong to a “club” that has girls in it? I don’t know a single normal boy who does. Sure, some do, but you don’t want boys thinking about girls in that way around the altar anyways, and boys shouldn’t be thinking about girls at that age.
So an all boys “club” is an awesome idea.
If they wanted a girls club to help with preparing the altar and linens etc… Well, where do I sign up? I would love to do that and so would my two sisters. My parents would be happy to get to church a little before mass anyways.
They could work it out so that the altar boys for a mass who have sisters in the girls “club” could prepare/serve the same mass and it would make the mass even more special because
I ironed the altar linen or I arranged those flowers or I… OR
My daughter did…OR
My sister did…and I am serving using what she did.

It would make the people involved feel so much more a part of the mass, and the people who are not part of it would want to become part of it. How cool would that be:thumbsup:
Have a Great Day!

 

[scylla]

No normal boy would ever want to be in a club with girls, we might project our own desire to want young boys and girls to think there is no difference between boys and girls.

Yet anyone who is honest with themselves would say that boys want to be around boys in a club. Some girls might want to be with the boys since, unfortunately some feminists have insulted themselves so much they only feel special if they are like boys.

Yet it is time we combated the corruption of our youth from seeking societies approval and instead upholding the dignity of each sex.

I would be very happy to sign my girls up for a young ladies altar guild, they should have their own group and unfortunately the altar guild is filled with older ladies, they should have something for the kids.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

No normal boy would ever want to be in a club with girls, we might project our own desire to want young boys and girls to think there is no difference between boys and girls.

Yet anyone who is honest with themselves would say that boys want to be around boys in a club. Some girls might want to be with the boys since, unfortunately some feminists have insulted themselves so much they only feel special if they are like boys.

Yet it is time we combated the corruption of our youth from seeking societies approval and instead upholding the dignity of each sex.

I would be very happy to sign my girls up for a young ladies altar guild, they should have their own group and unfortunately the altar guild is filled with older ladies, they should have something for the kids.

God Bless
Scylla

I disagree with you.

I am a male who was once a server. I served alongside other boys and girls as well. First of all, I never saw serving as a “club”. I saw it as giving something to the Church and serving God through the mass. And honestly, I never thought anything one way or the other about the girls I served beside. Many of them were my friends from school and it was fun to serve with them. The gender thing was just a complete non-issue. It had nothing to do with what I was doing there.

 

[Cristiano]

I disagree with you.

I am a male who was once a server. I served alongside other boys and girls as well. First of all, I never saw serving as a “club”. I saw it as giving something to the Church and serving God through the mass. And honestly, I never thought anything one way or the other about the girls I served beside. Many of them were my friends from school and it was fun to serve with them. The gender thing was just a complete non-issue. It had nothing to do with what I was doing there.

I think that you are not the only one looking at things that way. My son (12yo) does not care if he serves with boys or girls. Lack of reverent behaviors from either sex is what really bothers him.

 

[Margarite]

First off, I have two brothers, 13 & 11 and neither one would like to serve with girls, in some ways they would not want to do it because the girls were there. They are friendly with the girls at school, but they are in no way friends with them. They would hate to do almost anything with girls their age. Maybe it is just because they have three older sisters, I don’t know, but most of their friends don’t have sisters and they all feel the same way.

Second, we only used the word club because I couldn’t think of a better word. That is why I put the word in quotes. I just meant a group that meets and in this case learns about something, i.e. altar serving.

Thirdly, back to the original point, is it good that your son Cristiano and you PaixGioiaAmor, is it good for young men to be comfortable with women around the altar? The Church has said that there never have been and never will be women priests, that is a solely male role, so is it good that men who will be our future priests, or who will raise our future priests, are comfortable with girls around the altar, sort of in a mini-priest position?

I think this is the whole point. Women never will be priests. Altar serving is an introduction to the role of a priest. Therefore, women should not be altar servers.

I hope I make sense and I have nothing against you Cristiano, your son, or you PaixGioiaAmor, I was just using what you said.
Have a Wonder Full Day!

 

[Margarite]

Just to tell y’all this is also being discussed on another thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3566548#post3566548

 

[nightwalker]

No normal boy would ever want to be in a club with girls, we might project our own desire to want young boys and girls to think there is no difference between boys and girls.

snip<
Yet it is time we combated the corruption of our youth from seeking societies approval and instead upholding the dignity of each sex.

Absolutely

 

[Lovemyfaith]

What normal boy of the age 7-14 wants to belong to a “club” that has girls in it? I don’t know a single normal boy who does.

We have chess clubs, reading clubs, yearbook clubs, student government that all have boy and girl membership. There are plenty of boys and girls in all of those groups. If there are boys who will not serve because there are girls involved I would guess that is just an easy excuse not to serve. In fact I would say it is exactly those clubs that keep boys and girls separate, like sports teams, that are the #1 reason boys don’t serve. In my parish, boys would rather spend Sunday morning driving to a soccer game than worrying about who is scheduled to serve.

 

[snhs]

We have chess clubs, reading clubs, yearbook clubs, student government that all have boy and girl membership. There are plenty of boys and girls in all of those groups. If there are boys who will not serve because there are girls involved I would guess that is just an easy excuse not to serve. In fact I would say it is exactly those clubs that keep boys and girls separate, like sports teams, that are the #1 reason boys don’t serve. In my parish, boys would rather spend Sunday morning driving to a soccer game than worrying about who is scheduled to serve.

Chess clubs, where boys on a worldwide level dominate and players are renowned for their achievements. Reading clubs, where 99% of the best material is probably written by men. Yearbook clubs, where they need to get involved to write the things they think are important which might be omitted if left purely to the girls. Student government, when Government has always been dominated by men. All of those clubs are also likely to have older boys who they can look up to (and annoy most of the time).

A lot of Parishes have lost that among their Altar Servers, boys don’t predominate and far too often the only older Altar servers are girls.

They will not see it as worth doing if they don’t see older boys involved and don’t have some sort of idea of where it is going. If you join the Chess club then you might get good enough to be a Grandmaster, if you do well enough in Student government you might get a seat as an MP/Senator, if you do well in a boys football club then you might be the next Ronaldo or Zidane. Now if they look at Altar Serving what can they see it leading to? At one point it would have been the possibility of realising a Vocation to the Priesthood and even if they didn’t do that they hopefully their grew to maturity surrounded by good examples of faith, the older Altar boys, the Priests.

Now there is none of that, it can’t be said to lead to a possible Vocation to the Priesthood because girls are doing it. They don’t see older boys doing it because the girls have either started to predominate or the boys have decided it wasn’t worth the hassle to continue.

Maybe if more boys were told the stories of male Saints, many of whom were Altar boys, in a similar way to girls being told about female Saints they would want to serve, but most of the time they’re not. Pope Benedict’s Address to Altar boys in 2006 mentioned that he’d been an Altar boy, yet I didn’t hear any mention of it in my Parish. If boys hear that the Pope, or Fr X/Y/Z or the Bishop were an Altar boy then they get the idea of where it can lead, if they like the Priest then they think that might be a path they want to think of in the same way they do when they look at other figures they respect.

Thats not to say that they can’t get along with girls or that they can’t/don’t respect women. But it is easier for them to see a clearly defined role for themselves if it is people they could grow into, and obviously for the most part boys don’t see themselves growing into girls (which is just as well ).

 

[catherine_m]

There is no question that serving at the altar fosters vocations to the priesthood and permanent diaconate. Absolutely none …

Agree with this 100%. At last we agree on something!! There is a definate link between being an altar server and a calling to the Priesthood. Although of course it doesn’t follow that by being an altar boy you will want to be a Priest or that by not being an altar boy, you will not want to be a Priest. Not that I think that is what you are saying!!