Man Faces Death For Allegedly Converting To Christianity

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Franze:
Well, it was history, like St Paul threw stones when he was a jew to kill St Stephen or there are too christian martyrs killed by jews in Middle Ages in Spain, less of course, but there were.
The antisemitism was important in those times, but the interest rates were abusive and many of the bankers were jews, they are hated and not only in catholicism, Luther, spoke very important discurses against jews.
But now, we have got better in that.
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I was speaking about Catholics here who were Jews at one time, the Marranos. In the case of the massacre of Marranos, the catalyst for the massacre was a display in Church that the Dominicans said was a miracle. There was a Marrano who correctly observed that the miracle had a natural explanation. The Dominicans claimed that this was heresy and by implication that the converted Catholics were heretics and whipped up a frenzy which led to the massacre.
 
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Kirane:
I was speaking about Catholics here who were Jews at one time, the Marranos. In the case of the massacre of Marranos, the catalyst for the massacre was a display in Church that the Dominicans said was a miracle. There was a Marrano who correctly observed that the miracle had a natural explanation. The Dominicans claimed that this was heresy and by implication that the converted Catholics were heretics and whipped up a frenzy which led to the massacre.
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Where did you get your information? I did a fast search on Marranos and got a history that was quite a bit different.
 
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geezerbob:
Where did you get your information? I did a fast search on Marranos and got a history that was quite a bit different.
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In addition to the reference given, please see: Martin Gamero:“Historia de la ciudad de Toledo.”
 
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gilliam:
Looks like there is freedom of religion in the Afghan constitution. So it is I guess an issue for their court system.
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From the article, “The Afghan constitution, which is based on Sharia, or Islamic law, says that apostates can receive the death penalty.”

Apparently the Constitution was amended after it was voted on to include the provisions for Sharia.
 
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Thekla:
From the article, “The Afghan constitution, which is based on Sharia, or Islamic law, says that apostates can receive the death penalty.”

Apparently the Constitution was amended after it was voted on to include the provisions for Sharia.
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I hate relying on some reporter.

Here their constitution.

Here is a pertantent sections:
Article Two Ch. 1, Art. 2

The religion of the state of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is the sacred religion of Islam.

Followers of other religions are free to exercise their faith and perform their religious rites within the limits of the provisions of law.

Article Three Ch. 1, Art. 3

In Afghanistan, no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam.

Maybe more, but that is what I found in a quick scan.
 
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gilliam:
Maybe more, but that is what I found in a quick scan.
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The other pertinent section is

*Article Seven Ch. 1, Art. 7

The state shall abide by the UN charter, international treaties, international conventions that Afghanistan has signed, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.*

The UDHR guarantees freedom of religion.

Seems a bit unfortunate when your constitution contradicts itself in the first seven articles :eek:

Mike
 
Two points, from reading all the posts…
  1. What would those of you calling for US intervention (or Western intervention) have us do? There’s not a whole lot we can do other than express our objections by way of the State Dept. From what I saw on TV last night, Rice did that, as well as McClellan at the White House. I don’t like this either but I can’t see us forcing the issue militarily…that would be the only way to force it.
  2. Yes, there were executions in Spain of those who refused to convert. However, it wasn’t just one direction (i.e. Christians on Jews). Whoever happened to be in charge at the time would execute all those that would not convert. The gov’t changed hands several times between the Moors and the Christians. That being said…we are now living in 2006!! This Islamic intolerance is ridiculous and doesn’t do much in the way of convincing the West that they are “moderate” and want peace. The imam (sp.?) on TV last night from Afghanistan calling for the beheading of this man will not engender good will in the West.
Lisa
 
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MikeWM:
An Afghan man? An Afghan man? We invaded their country in order to install a regime that executes people for converting to Christianity? Wow, good job we’ve done there.

Mike
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Hey… you’re basing all of your conclusions on just this one incident. Other things have come along in that country that are good because of the invasion… for instance a woman could possibly be on the firing squad. Before America invaded women couldn’t even hold jobs in Afghanistan – now look at them… their working in the hash fields right along side the other men.
 
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Shibboleth:
Hey… you’re basing all of your conclusions on just this one incident. Other things have come along in that country that are good because of the invasion… for instance a woman could possibly be on the firing squad. Before America invaded women couldn’t even hold jobs in Afghanistan – now look at them… their working in the hash fields right along side the other men.
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Hmm, yes, interesting points 🙂

Mike
 
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MikeWM:
An Afghan man? An Afghan man? We invaded their country in order to install a regime that executes people for converting to Christianity? Wow, good job we’ve done there.

Mike
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Right Mike.
An Afghan government practicing (and working through) Afghan Law is SO UN-AMERICAN! :confused:

INVADED??? I didn’t know we invaded a the democratic government of Afghanistan… :banghead:

Look to your alleys in Kuwait and Saud.
People are beheaded or stoned to death for what they believe there every day. I have seen it first hand.
When I was in Kuwait, a man came home from New York with his new Catholic wife and new found Catholic faith and was stoned to death in the street 20 feet from the US embassy…

How about looking at the first 100yrs of a country working through the founding ‘idea’ that ‘all men are created equal’?

Your take on how this came to be is offensive.
Your way off base here… Way off…
I wonder at your use of the word “WE” in the beginning of you statement…

To the point of the thread:
I agree this issue looks bad no matter how it plays out, but letting them work it out is the right answer. You cannot blame ‘us’ (or them) for the beliefs they’ve held for generations or wish to practice. Those things take generations to change - if they change at all

I will admit things like this don’t show me PEACE in the translation of ‘Islam’, rather I see SUBMISSION.

Peace,
CS
 
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ChristsSoldier:
Right Mike.
An Afghan government practicing (and working through) Afghan Law is SO UN-AMERICAN! :confused:
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ChristsSoldier is right the most important thing here is that they voted on it… this shows progress… who knows ten or twelve years from now the court system of Afganistan will have the same respect for life as the American Court System.
 
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Shibboleth:
ChristsSoldier is right the most important thing here is that they voted on it… this shows progress…
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Progress is good. Maybe they have moved from the seventh century into the eighth century.
 
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Shibboleth:
ChristsSoldier is right the most important thing here is that they voted on it… this shows progress… who knows ten or twelve years from now the court system of Afganistan will have the same respect for life as the American Court System.
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You think that the most important thing is that they voted on it? It shows something but it does not show a real democracy.

And their constitution was reported not to include Sharia when in fact it does. I’m shocked that anyone here would think that Constitutions repressing women and religious faith killing Christians) are some sign of progress.
 
Well, I guess this will separate the Christians from the non-Christians.

One of my priest-friends said once that what we need to weed out the phoney Christians is a “good old-fashioned persecution”. The phoneys would quickly defect to the other side and effectively unmask themselves.

Or words to that effect.

… so, … who’s next???
 
Al Masetti:
Well, I guess this will separate the Christians from the non-Christians.

One of my priest-friends said once that what we need to weed out the phoney Christians is a “good old-fashioned persecution”. The phoneys would quickly defect to the other side and effectively unmask themselves.

Or words to that effect.

… so, … who’s next???
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Great way to settle it, yes. Don’t help your fellow Christian brother. Let another man commit the sin of murder.

Why not save both? Certainly, both are professing their faith. One man shall go to Heaven, for dying for his, the other shall not, for committing murder. Save one, you save them both. Save the man from dying, he still has a large chance of going to Heaven, and you’re stopping the other from sinning. While the first man will only have to live a longer Christian life.
 
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ChristsSoldier:
INVADED??? I didn’t know we invaded a the democratic government of Afghanistan… :banghead:
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I seem to recall an invasion in 2001. I don’t recall saying that was a democratic state back then, mainly because it wasn’t.
Look to your alleys in Kuwait and Saud.
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My allies? I’m no fan of those regimes at all. But they have oil, so it seems they need to be kept on side, because oil is apparently more important.
I wonder at your use of the word “WE” in the beginning of you statement…
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Why? We - the USA, UK and some others - were the people who invaded Afghanistan in 2001.

Mike
 
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MikeWM:
I seem to recall an invasion in 2001. I don’t recall saying that was a democratic state back then, mainly because it wasn’t.
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We did invade. It was the right thing to do.
 
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