Man from ministry bans Potter

[Catholic90]

Rowlings commentary.

It’s not in any of the books.

 

[K-McD]

The question was whether it was bad literature. One who claims it is bad literature (as opposed to one who thinks sends the wring message)is claiming that their insight is superior to the millions who shelled out their money for the books.

Would you like to eat one of my brownies?

 

[K-McD]

Which shows what a great judge of Literature you are. Rowlings books made her a billionaire while you are reduced to taking shots at her in internet forums.

Actually, I was quoting Deal Hudson on the question of what he thought of the Harry Potter books. Oh, that’s right, he never read the books. It is evident, from the fact that he dislikes them.

 

[Catholic90]

Would you like to eat one of my brownies?

What’s the “bad message” in HP?

Gay? Nope - not in there.
Witchcraft? no more so than Grimm fairy tales, LOTR, etc. I’ve never seen nor even heard of any kid reading HP and then doing spells they learned in the books. Not gonna happen, either!
Sex? Nope - none in there.

Love? Yes, in nearly every book.
Good beating evil? Yes, every book.
Standing up for what is right? Yes, every book.
Dorky little kid standing up to bully and being right? Yes, every book.

So…love and good beating evil is bad?

 

[Nohome]

Harry Potter was fine until it was revealed that Dumbledore was a perverted sodomite. That crosses the line.

Whoa Nelly, back up the wagon! It was revealed that Dumbledore had a same sex attraction, not that he was a perverted sodomite. How you get that from Rowlings’ comments is way beyond me.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

You are asking me to disregard the “evils” in the books and read them because of the occurrences of good. If that’s so, then you should eat some of my brownies. They are made from the finest wheat, the freshest milk, and the sweetest sugar. Eat them, and disregard the little bits of dog dropping I added. You won’t even notice it.

Your eating habits have nothing to do with this debate. Good and evil isn’t at all like your baked goods. Life is filled with good and evil and those who participate in life must sort the two out with courage, will and character. Sort of like, well, sort of like Harry Potter.

I hear it all the time with books, movies, and songs. Its good. So what if there’s nudity or foul language, the rest is good.

Advice from well rounded people who are able to sort the wheat from the chaff. Life isn’t like Pollyanna, it take real skill to navigate all the choices in life. Lessons well learned in HP.

Sorry, I saw from the very beginning this wasn’t good literature.

I never said HP was good literature. It is a good read and a great story, but definitely not good literature. I would reserve such a title for books like The Catcher in the Rye or Of Mice and Men. The HP series, written for children, lacks the subtle allegorical base necessary to be deemed good literature. Fabulous books and “must read” material nonetheless.

Nohome

 

[Nohome]

Agreed. Even in the final battle between Harry and Voldermort ,after seven years of Voldermort killing and torturing his friends. Harry cannot bring himself to cast a killings spell. In fact up to the end of this final duel Harry is still trying to to save Voldermort’s soul. How that can be considered unchristian is beyond me.

Hey Bob, have I gotten too much sun or are the two of us on the same side of a debate? It’s refreshing to agree with you. Who would think we could find common ground in a children’s book! I guess it is as good a place to start as anywhere.

Nohome

 

[estesbob]

Hey Bob, have I gotten too much sun or are the two of us on the same side of a debate? It’s refreshing to agree with you. Who would think we could find common ground in a children’s book! I guess it is as good a place to start as anywhere.

Nohome

I think its a lack of sun as evidently hell has frozen over!

I also like the Davinci code…

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Oh for goodness’ sake! Don’t we have anything better to worry about than a fictional character’s sexual orientation?! So what if she says he was gay, so what is she promotoes tolerance? Last time I checked, tolerance was not a bad thing. There is no sin in the text of these books, there is no sin even implied in the texts of these books. And if “magic” is the worry, then I want to see Grimm’s fairy tales removed from the shelves as well. Our over-censorship is creating a generation of kids who can’t think for themselves because the older generation consideres them incapable of doing so.

If Dumbledore is a homosexual, he is certainly practicing the good virtue of celibacy and not inflicting his SAA on others- a good thing in a novel character, to my mind.

 

[yugnok]

If Dumbledore is a homosexual, he is certainly practicing the good virtue of celibacy and not inflicting his SAA on others- a good thing in a novel character, to my mind.

I don’t think the problem is so much with the way his character behaves in the books as with injecting something into the story that will cause a headache for parents.

My brothers kids love Harry Potter. He hasn’t even given them the birds and the bees talk and now with the way this is plastered all over the news and with the way kids talk on the playground, whether homosexual behavior is described in the book or not, he is probably going to have to give them a little talk about homosexuality.

Whatever Rowling’s views about gay rights and all that, making this character gay and announcing it publicly, takes what was an otherwise fun story and politicizes it, giving it content that is beyond the age group of many children who love her books. And, it just creates a headache for parents.

I think its pretty shady.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I also like the Davinci code…

Ya see folks, Bob likes fantasy. (Except when it’s printed by TNR )

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I don’t think the problem is so much with the way his character behaves in the books as with injecting something into the story that will cause a headache for parents.

My brothers kids love Harry Potter. He hasn’t even given them the birds and the bees talk and now with the way this is plastered all over the news and with the way kids talk on the playground, whether homosexual behavior is described in the book or not, he is probably going to have to give them a little talk about homosexuality.

Whatever Rowling’s views about gay rights and all that, making this character gay and announcing it publicly, takes what was an otherwise fun story and politicizes it, giving it content that is beyond the age group of many children who love her books. And, it just creates a headache for parents.

I think its pretty shady.

Gee, I’m just keeping my younger two ignorant of the term until they get old enough to figure it out for themselves. They think “gay” means “happy and lighthearted” or “in sarcastic” as the young one says, “lame and not real fun”.

 

[Brendan]

Well, let’s think about this…the bad guy is tortured by a teenager whose parents were killed by this bad guy.

Hmmmmmm. I am a parent. If my children were killed by a guy and I cornered him, do you think I might torture him due to anger? Would it be justified?

As I mentioned in a previous post, I hypothesised about my own ‘book’, “Sgt. Potter and the Half Blood Iraqi”

let’s say that sgt. Potter is in a military school after his parents were killed in 9/11

In Iraq, he sees his godfather killed by an Iraqi insurgent. How justified would he be in torturing the insurgent?

Later, he sees another Iraqi insurgent spit in the face of his favorite drill sergent, and tortures him, this time he corrected the mistake of the previous torture attempt. That one had failed because Sgt Potter didn’t quite have his heart into it. But this time is an exception, and Sgt. Potter really lets the offending insurgent have it good.

How justified is that?

How justified is any attempt at torture. Does having your parents killed by a terrorist give one free moral and legal right to torture another person.

Catholic90, I must say, I’m really appalled. This is the first attempt I’ve seen to actually justify a clear attempt at torture. At least the others in this debate agreed that torture in NEVER acceptable.

What do you think is the Church’s teaching on the matter.

I think they were a fun series and am really glad my kids read them!

If you kids like reading about torture attempts, I feel sorry for them.

 

[Catholic90]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I hypothesised about my own ‘book’, “Sgt. Potter and the Half Blood Iraqi”

let’s say that sgt. Potter is in a military school after his parents were killed in 9/11

In Iraq, he sees his godfather killed by an Iraqi insurgent. How justified would he be in torturing the insurgent?

Later, he sees another Iraqi insurgent spit in the face of his favorite drill sergent, and tortures him, this time he corrected the mistake of the previous torture attempt. That one had failed because Sgt Potter didn’t quite have his heart into it. But this time is an exception, and Sgt. Potter really lets the offending insurgent have it good.

How justified is that?

How justified is any attempt at torture. Does having your parents killed by a terrorist give one free moral and legal right to torture another person.

Catholic90, I must say, I’m really appalled. This is the first attempt I’ve seen to actually justify a clear attempt at torture. At least the others in this debate agreed that torture in NEVER acceptable.

What do you think is the Church’s teaching on the matter.

If you kids like reading about torture attempts, I feel sorry for them.

Uh, sure, Brenden, whatever…if that is all you got out the books, I am sorry for you. Back to your regularly scheduled world of your own now…

Iraq is a very real world and situation. Hogwarts is FANTASY.

I am sorry you can’t tell the difference. Fortunately, my kids can.

 

[adrift]

Really?

Witches were traditionally understood to be healers or wise women in a community. Witches were often the old lady on the edge of town who understood the medicinal properties of plants and served as doctors and midwives.

Many witches were christian until witchcraft was declared heresy in 1320. Even then it was more about supressing women than evil. It wasn’t until much later that witches were tied to the occult and considered enemies of Christianity.

Nohome

Deuteronomy 18:9-11

When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

Kings 9:22

When Joram saw Jehu he asked, “Have you come in peace, Jehu?”
“How can there be peace,” Jehu replied, “as long as all the idolatry and witchcraft of your mother Jezebel abound?”

2 Chronicles 33:6

He sacrificed his sons in the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger.

Code of Hammurabi (about 2000 B.C.).

It is there prescribed,

If a man has laid a charge of witchcraft and has not justified it, he upon whom the witchcraft is laid shall go to the holy river; he shall plunge into the holy river and if the holy river overcome him, he who accused him shall take to himself his house.

Witches were traditionally evil. Only in modern times have they have been sanitized. It was condemned long before 1320.

 

[Nohome]

Deuteronomy 18:9-11

Kings 9:22

2 Chronicles 33:6

Code of Hammurabi (about 2000 B.C.).
Witches were traditionally evil. Only in modern times have they have been sanitized. It was condemned long before 1320.

The witchcraft you quote and the herbalist/midwives I mention are two different things. The Church used the Bible to demonize these people and make them witches.

Nohome

 

[Brendan]

Uh, sure, Brenden, whatever…if that is all you got out the books, I am sorry for you. Back to your regularly scheduled world of your own now…

Iraq is a very real world and situation. Hogwarts is FANTASY.

I am sorry you can’t tell the difference. Fortunately, my kids can.

Ah, so you premise is now that there is NO moral lessons in the book at all now, since it’s fantasy.

Voldemorts murder of James and Lilly Potter is not evil, because it was fantasy. The torture of the Nevilles is not a bad act because it too did not happen in real life.

And no one can critique Delores Umbridge’s teaching style because it happened in a Fantasy world.

Is that correct? There are no evil actions in the book at all, because it was all fantasy?

 

[estesbob]

Ya see folks, Bob likes fantasy. (Except when it’s printed by TNR )

 

[estesbob]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I hypothesised about my own ‘book’, “Sgt. Potter and the Half Blood Iraqi”

let’s say that sgt. Potter is in a military school after his parents were killed in 9/11

In Iraq, he sees his godfather killed by an Iraqi insurgent. How justified would he be in torturing the insurgent?

Later, he sees another Iraqi insurgent spit in the face of his favorite drill sergent, and tortures him, this time he corrected the mistake of the previous torture attempt. That one had failed because Sgt Potter didn’t quite have his heart into it. But this time is an exception, and Sgt. Potter really lets the offending insurgent have it good.

How justified is that?

How justified is any attempt at torture. Does having your parents killed by a terrorist give one free moral and legal right to torture another person.

Catholic90, I must say, I’m really appalled. This is the first attempt I’ve seen to actually justify a clear attempt at torture. At least the others in this debate agreed that torture in NEVER acceptable.

What do you think is the Church’s teaching on the matter.

If you kids like reading about torture attempts, I feel sorry for them.

Can you point me to the page in the books where Harry Potter tortures anyone?

 

[Brendan]

Can you point me to the page in the books where Harry Potter tortures anyone?

In the Order of the Phoenix, near the very end, Harry uses the Cruciatus Curse on Bellatrix Lastrange, right after she kills Syrius Black. the Curse is not fully effective as Harry doesn’t have right intent, to cause pain.

In the Deathly Hallows, Harry uses the the Cruciatus Curse on Amycus Carrow, in the Ravenclaw Common Room, (jsut before Voldemort enters) in retaliation for Carrow’s spitting at Prof McGonagall. This time the curse works to it’s full effect. His quote there is “I see what Bellatrix meant… you really need to mean it.”

This purpose of the curse is to cause excruciating pain. What is also interesting is that the command word for this curse “Crucio” is the Latin word for 'Torture".

It was defined in the book as being one of the 'Unforgivable" Curses, and it’s use was supposed to result in a life time sentance to Azkaban. In fact, it’s use was the crime that Barty Crouch Jr. ( ala Goblet of Fire) was sentanced to Azkaban for.

But it seems that Harry somehow gets off scott free in using it.